Dublin has the second highest cost of public transport for users in the world

#1 · 10-06-2018 10:53AM #1

A friend posted an article on her Facebook which complained that Auckland NZ had the third most expensive public transport in the world... but then Dublin was listed at number two!

I’ve lived in all three places in the top spots. Yes London’s crowded but it’s public transport is epic compared to Dublin (and Auckland!). I live on the Northside inside the M50, but have just one bus route within five minutes walk. It’s unreliable on weekends, and in peak times, you can’t get on the bus. It’s also expensive. All this and the odds of being stuck standing in the rain means I rarely use public transport in Dublin. In London I lived on the Zone 2/3 border (depending on if I was catching national rail or tube), and had four bus routes immediately outside my door, with another ten on the High Street five minutes walk. I used a car sharing club rarely. Public transport in Dublin needs to be more appealing, and not by putting more taxes on car users, but by making public transport so convenient and cheap that you’d be stupid to use anything else.

www. nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12067987&ref=NZH_fb

The 12 most expensive cities in the world for commuting by public transport

1. London - NZ$247 // €147.58
2. Dublin - $187.11 // €111.80
3. Auckland - $174.74 // €104.41
4. New York - $167.35 // €99.99
5. Tokyo - $157.39 // €94.04
6. Amsterdam - $154.41 // €92.26
7. Sydney - $154.12 // €92.09
8. Zurich - $154.12 // €92.09
9. Melbourne - $150 // €89.63
10. Toronto - $146.02 // €87.25
11. Chicago - $145.17 // €86.74
12. Wellington - $143.89 // €85.98

Source: Deutsche Bank, using prices from Expatistan, a site that tracks cost-of-living expenses in more than 200 countries. **converted from NZD to Euros using XE currency app, so rounding etc might mean small differences

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-06-2018 11:47AM

Thingymebob wrote: »

A friend posted an article on her Facebook which complained that Auckland NZ had the third most expensive public transport in the world... but then Dublin was listed at number two!

I’ve lived in all three places in the top spots. Yes London’s crowded but it’s public transport is epic compared to Dublin (and Auckland!). I live on the Northside inside the M50, but have just one bus route within five minutes walk. It’s unreliable on weekends, and in peak times, you can’t get on the bus. It’s also expensive. All this and the odds of being stuck standing in the rain means I rarely use public transport in Dublin. In London I lived on the Zone 2/3 border (depending on if I was catching national rail or tube), and had four bus routes immediately outside my door, with another ten on the High Street five minutes walk. I used a car sharing club rarely. Public transport in Dublin needs to be more appealing, and not by putting more taxes on car users, but by making public transport so convenient and cheap that you’d be stupid to use anything else.

www. nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12067987&ref=NZH_fb

The 12 most expensive cities in the world for commuting by public transport

1. London - NZ$247 // €147.58
2. Dublin - $187.11 // €111.80
3. Auckland - $174.74 // €104.41
4. New York - $167.35 // €99.99
5. Tokyo - $157.39 // €94.04
6. Amsterdam - $154.41 // €92.26
7. Sydney - $154.12 // €92.09
8. Zurich - $154.12 // €92.09
9. Melbourne - $150 // €89.63
10. Toronto - $146.02 // €87.25
11. Chicago - $145.17 // €86.74
12. Wellington - $143.89 // €85.98

Source: Deutsche Bank, using prices from Expatistan, a site that tracks cost-of-living expenses in more than 200 countries. **converted from NZD to Euros using XE currency app, so rounding etc might mean small differences

I'll assume that's the cost of an unlimited monthly pass. Out of interest, in which cities does it include night travel?

Thingymebob · 10-06-2018 11:58AM

In the top three, yes monthly passes. In London that would include night buses and also the weekend tube. In Auckland the last buses and trains are just after midnight. In Amsterdam monthly ticket covers night services. Dublin and the rest not sure.

Still horrified

Canard · 10-06-2018 12:07PM

Eh, no idea where that number for Dublin came from, not even a student pass is that 'cheap'. An adult monthly pass is a whopping €160.50. It's absolutely disgusting and I have no idea why we put up with the constantly rising prices and appalling service. I've taken to walking anywhere I need to go unless it's pouring rain, and it sometimes doesn't even take much longer given how infrequent the buses are and the constant delays / lack of actual connections like you would find in one central tube station. AND that huge price only includes buses. The helpful daily 'cap' on leapcards kicks in at €7 (and that's only if you haven't used the Dart / Luas as well, which pushes it up even further)... who even takes enough buses for that to become in any way useful?

I just got back from living in Paris where you pay €75 and have access to the entire transport network in Paris *and* the surrounding areas. Your employer generally pays you half of it back (which means, looking at the above DB link, a month of Paris transport essentially equals a WEEK of Dublin Bus transport), and a student pays €300 per year, which is actually affordable. In Paris you might roll your eyes at a 3-4 minute wait for a metro; in Dublin any time <7 minutes feels like a blessing.

(Yes, I have a deep-seated hatred for Dublin Bus.)

facehugger99 · 10-06-2018 12:12PM

The money to pay the eye-watering salaries and inefficient working practices of the drivers has to come from somewhere

D3V!L · 10-06-2018 12:14PM

The Dublin price is the monthly tax saver ticket for the Luas.

direstraits · 10-06-2018 12:17PM

I would have no problem paying if the service matched the price. We are paying premium prices for a standard service.

dfx- · 10-06-2018 12:17PM

It's because the people who run Dublin's public transport (not Dublin Bus, but the National Transport Authority) are trying to mimic London in every way possible, mostly with prohibitive cash fares and options available.

So it's no surprise we are most like them in terms of cost.

Assetbacked · 10-06-2018 12:20PM

5th most expensive city to rent in the world too, as was published recently.

Dublin offers shockingly bad value on the lifestyle front. There is absolutely no way these things should cost as much they do, it represents an appalling state of affairs.

10-06-2018 12:32PM

Thingymebob wrote: »

In the top three, yes monthly passes. In London that would include night buses and also the weekend tube. In Auckland the last buses and trains are just after midnight. In Amsterdam monthly ticket covers night services. Dublin and the rest not sure.

Still horrified

What zones in London though? All zones is a massive area compared to the others.

end of the road · 10-06-2018 12:44PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The money to pay the eye-watering salaries and inefficient working practices of the drivers has to come from somewhere

can you name these inefficient working practices? what metric are you using to judge that the drivers earn eye-watering salaries?
bus driving after all wouldn't be the most popular job in the world i'd imagine, so a good wage would likely need to be paid to attract staff. if dublin bus and others don't pay well they won't get staff.

pjohnson · 10-06-2018 12:46PM

end of the road wrote: »

can you name these inefficient working practices? what metric are you using to judge that the drivers earn eye-watering salaries?
bus driving after all wouldn't be the most popular job in the world i'd imagine, so a good wage would likely need to be paid to attract staff. if dublin bus and others don't pay well they won't get staff.

Ah nice your back again! Championing inefficency still.

Hector Bellend · 10-06-2018 12:47PM

go on the public transport

rainbow kirby · 10-06-2018 01:51PM

Aegir wrote: »

What zones in London though? All zones is a massive area compared to the others.

The price listed looks relatively close to the price for a zone 1-2 monthly travel card. (£131.00)

Mutant z · 10-06-2018 02:30PM

Those insane prices for a subpar transport system the end should justify the means but sadly it doesn't come close.

Donald Trump · 10-06-2018 02:32PM

I have a great idea

Lets turn this into a thread about the pros and cons of cycling and cyclists.

I heard that some cyclists have been known to sometimes break red lights.

And that some drivers dangerously endanger cyclists

suicide_circus · 10-06-2018 02:46PM

Yeah but the craic is up to 90

_Kaiser_ · 10-06-2018 03:35PM

D3V!L wrote: »

The Dublin price is the monthly tax saver ticket for the Luas.

So probably not even an accurate comparison vs the others considering the luas is 2 fixed routes and doesn't serve most of the city's suburbs at all.

n!ghtmancometh · 10-06-2018 03:41PM

My yearly tax saver Dublin Bus ticket is 104 (around 3.40 per day) a month. Unlimited travel on any bus, including nightlink and airlink. Think it's fairly good value tbh.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-06-2018 03:55PM

Canard wrote: »

Eh, no idea where that number for Dublin came from, not even a student pass is that 'cheap'. An adult day pass is a whopping €160.50. It's absolutely disgusting and I have no idea why we put up with the constantly rising prices and appalling service. I've taken to walking anywhere I need to go unless it's pouring rain, and it sometimes doesn't even take much longer given how infrequent the buses are and the constant delays / lack of actual connections like you would find in one central tube station. AND that huge price only includes buses. The helpful daily 'cap' on leapcards kicks in at €7 (and that's only if you haven't used the Dart / Luas as well, which pushes it up even further)... who even takes enough buses for that to become in any way useful?

I just got back from living in Paris where you pay €75 and have access to the entire transport network in Paris *and* the surrounding areas. Your employer generally pays you half of it back (which means, looking at the above DB link, a month of Paris transport essentially equals a WEEK of Dublin Bus transport), and a student pays €300 per year, which is actually affordable. In Paris you might roll your eyes at a 3-4 minute wait for a metro; in Dublin any time <7 minutes feels like a blessing.

(Yes, I have a deep-seated hatred for Dublin Bus.)

I presume you meant monthly pass at that price.

It is a rip-off though:
Dublin - €134 for one month, bus only, no night services.
Berlin - €81 for one month, every mode of transport (including ferries across lakes!) includes night busses.
Also covers a second person after 8pm and on weekends.

And people wonder why I moved....

banie01 · 10-06-2018 03:57PM

Public transport in general in Ireland is an expensive option.
The default option for the semi states seems to be to raise prices when there is a funding crunch.
Surely the aim should be to increase user uptake of the service, aim for increasing passenger volume rather than raise prices and push more commuters off the service.
From a purely economical standpoint, where we have a stated aim to increase public transport use, the 2 primary factors in my mind are Capacity and price.
Price should be low and ideally low enough that it makes taking a bus or train a viable alternative to taking a car.
Capacity should be high enough and frequent enough that waits are minimised but that seat utilisation is high so as to maximise utilisation of the available capacity.

Those 2 factors are of primary concern in urban areas. They are much more difficult to address on regional services due to rural fragmentation.

I live in Limerick, a city that is undertaking the "smarter travel" trials and TBH apart from some cycle routes I can not think of any meaningful impact it has made.
The bus service is expensive, it's €4.60 for a return ticket to the city centre...
On a usually crowded bus that is often late.
I can drive to town, park for 1hr and drive home with any shopping and have change from the same €4.60 even with amortising insurance and maintenance costs into the equation.

Leap card and day saver tickets can and do reduce the costs.
But to ensure a meaningful uptake of public transport use, the customers have to see the benefit of use and at present, there really isn't any compelling reason to use public transport when a car is available.

10-06-2018 04:04PM

wouldnt be without the bus, its a very good option for me where i live. cheap, frequent, quick.

rainbow kirby · 10-06-2018 04:27PM

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

My yearly tax saver Dublin Bus ticket is 104 (around 3.40 per day) a month. Unlimited travel on any bus, including nightlink and airlink. Think it's fairly good value tbh.

£1.50 flat fare for bus journeys in London. Over €3 cash fare to get from my parents' area into Dublin City centre. Bus is once an hour on a Sunday. That's daft.

10-06-2018 04:35PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

£1.50 flat fare for bus journeys in London. Over €3 cash fare to get from my parents' area into Dublin City centre. Bus is once an hour on a Sunday. That's daft.

im not sure that a comparison with london is how one measures value of dublin bus.

how far is your parent's area from the city centre and what are the alternative modes of transport and what's it worth to you to not walk it.

three quid is nothing.

Amirani · 10-06-2018 04:48PM

People moan about taxes quite a bit. They also tend to moan about infrastructure spending and spending on transport systems in Dublin. We're primarily a car-loving/dependent country.

Look at current and previous Metro proposals, Dart Underground and various other transport initiatives around the city. They get lambasted by the same old economists (McCarthy etc.) and resented by those outside of Dublin. Then you have NIMBYs within Dublin moaning about various aspects of projects and protesting against them (Na Fianna situation etc.)

Not surprised whatsoever that we have such a high burden of funding on public transport users.

questionmark? · 10-06-2018 04:55PM

banie01 wrote: »

.

I live in Limerick, a city that is undertaking the "smarter travel" trials and TBH apart from some cycle routes I can not think of any meaningful impact it has made.
The bus service is expensive, it's €4.60 for a return ticket to the city centre...
On a usually crowded bus that is often late.
I can drive to town, park for 1hr and drive home with any shopping and have change from the same €4.60 even with amortising insurance and maintenance costs into the equation.

Leap card and day saver tickets can and do reduce the costs.
But to ensure a meaningful uptake of public transport use, the customers have to see the benefit of use and at present, there really isn't any compelling reason to use public transport when a car is available.

The leap card price is €1.61 but you are choosing to pay €2:30 each way. €3.22 for a return trip on Leap is good value with regular users getting even better value with period tickets. The service around the country needs to improve but I can't understand people who choose not to get a leap card and pay more whilst cribbing about the price.

n!ghtmancometh · 10-06-2018 05:06PM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

£1.50 flat fare for bus journeys in London. Over €3 cash fare to get from my parents' area into Dublin City centre. Bus is once an hour on a Sunday. That's daft.

2.60 with leap if you're comparing like with like. Cash is always going to be higher so as to try and disincentivise people from paying with it because it slows down boarding. It's the reason why you can't pay cash at all on London busses.

Dublin has such a low subsidy for public transport compared to other cities, another reason for fares being high. It's like everything in this country, we wan't great services but don't want to pay the taxes to fund them, or implement measures to make them better, as witnessed with the current shambles of buses, cars and luas competing for space in key areas of the city. Any other city in the world would have banned private cars from theses areas at least. Not here though, we'll just let expensive busses and trams sit in traffic instead so auld Mary can park right beside the door in Arnotts. Same happenned in Cork when the council dared to prioritise public transport.

Dr Brown · 10-06-2018 06:48PM

I blame Varadkar he destroyed the bus service in my area when he was minster for transport.

Cupcake_Crisis · 10-06-2018 07:00PM

With the Toronto monthly pass it’s expensive but basically uncapped. You could get 6 subways, 4 busses, 2 streetcars and a night bus all in 1 day and it’s all covered by your pass. It works on a transfer system. Was so handy. You can also claim about €10-15 back per pass when you do your taxes.

Conservatory · 10-06-2018 07:02PM

The number 14 bus is a disgrace. It serves Beaumont hospital and my area and it’s regular that I’m in town a half hour waiting on it.
I don’t know one person on my street not paying tax.
I can get a bus down the Malahide road and walk for 10 minutes or a bus down the airport road and walk ten minutes but sometimes my feet hurt from running around in work boots all day and the walking ten minutes to-from work to the bus stop.

I can’t wait until we finish this job and I can go to a site with parking.

Try_harder · 10-06-2018 07:05PM

Does the price include the tax deduction? You can save up to 51%

Dublin has the second highest cost of public transport for users in the world

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