Canada close to cannabis legalisation

JohnnyFlash · 08-06-2018 08:45AM

Stoners are the only drug addicts who seem to get excited about their vice being legalised.

Wanderer78 · 08-06-2018 08:47AM

Deleted User wrote:

I definitely think it would reduce alcohol consumption. I'm sure you'll argue with me and find fault with all the reports and articles. Enjoy yourselves.

Thank you for the links, I ll check them out later. I'm personally not convinced, but could be wrong of course, we have a very odd relationship, as I've said previously, with alcohol, our consumption has probably been steadily rising (unsure of this though), no matter what we try do about it. When you start to research mind altering substances and humans together, expect some weird outcomes, we re a strange breed

Cupcake_Crisis · 08-06-2018 08:47AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Very much doubt it. Scary to think of stoned folk everywhere..

I’ve never seen someone get into a fight outside a pub after 1 too many joints. Give me someone who’s as high as a kite over someone who’s as pissed as a newt any day.

It’s been basically legal in Canada for a long time now. They’re not big drinkers in Toronto but they love an aul joint. A lot of my friends gave up the booze in favor of weed while we were over there. It’s cheaper and hangover free.

Wanderer78 · 08-06-2018 08:49AM

JohnnyFlash wrote:

Stoners are the only drug addicts who seem to get excited about their vice being legalised.

Not being a drug user or a none drinker, and I wouldn't class my reaction as 'excited', but of, 'yea this makes a lot of sense'

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2018 08:52AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Cannabis does not turn aggressive **** into pacifist hippies!

Maybe not but give those pacifist hippies enough alcohol and they’ll likely turn into aggressive ****.

KingNerolives · 08-06-2018 08:55AM

We do we want to promote the stoner culture? Lazy and unproductive people aren't role models so why do we want to legalise it?

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2018 08:56AM

KingNerolives wrote: »

We do we want to promote the stoner culture? Lazy and unproductive people aren't role models so why do we want to legalise it?

That’s like saying everyone who drinks alcohol is a down and out alcoholic. Complete nonsense.

Wanderer78 · 08-06-2018 09:00AM

KingNerolives wrote:

We do we want to promote the stoner culture? Lazy and unproductive people aren't role models so why do we want to legalise it?

'productivity', what does this actually mean, and are the spoils of all this 'production' truly spread evenly around the planet? You d be surprised how many people drink alcohol, and consume other highly addictive substances, are these also poor role models?

sbsquarepants · 08-06-2018 09:04AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’ve seen quite a lot of paranoid weed users. .

So have I - it's far from harmless.

I think the propaganda has swung too far to the other side - we've had the nonsense of reefer madness and gateway drugs and all that bollox and we're now in the era as cannabis as health food!

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It strikes me that legalisation won’t change much as it will be probably banned from public places anyway. .

Much like it is now.:D

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

As for your body your rules, the state is getting more prohibitive with some legal drugs and food as it is.

True - where do you draw the line I suppose. We do need someone to look out for us and say you can't put this into food because it will do "x" or that causes cancer so it's banned and so on. But I think it's fairly clear that people will always look to alter their consciousness in some fashion - it's just in us as a species to do that.
Trying to stop it is the very definition of futility.

Malayalam · 08-06-2018 09:06AM

People who get paranoid on weed usually quit using it pretty sharpish, unless they are some kind of masochists. I have known a lot of stoners in my time and indeed been one, and if they were aggressive it was always something else that made them so. I quit many years ago when it made me suddenly anxious, having thoroughly enjoyed every joint up until that point. Right now it doesn't work for me (though I love the smell of grass burning) but I fully intend to become a totally blissed out ganja-head if I live to be old.

Pac1Man · 08-06-2018 09:08AM

I don't use it (but wouldn't be against trying out an edible of some sort), but the hypocrisy and ignorance in this thread is laughable.

We already have a place on every corner which sells a potentially life ending drug but is used recreationally by almost everyone.

Wanderer78 · 08-06-2018 09:08AM

Malayalam wrote:

People who get paranoid on weed usually quit using it pretty sharpish, unless they are some kind of masochists. I have known a lot of stoners in my time and indeed been one, and if they were aggressive it was always something else that made them so. I quit many years ago when it made me suddenly anxious, having thoroughly enjoyed every joint up until that point. Right now it doesn't work for me (though I love the smell of grass burning) but I fully intend to become a totally blissed out ganja-head if I live to be old.

Mind altering substances do exactly what it says on the tin, be careful out there folks, look after your mind, but have fun to

sbsquarepants · 08-06-2018 09:10AM

jiltloop wrote: »

Conversely the fact that little knackers are smoking a plant doesn't meant that the plant is evil and should be illegal. If they were drinking coffee would you be blaming coffee?

I guarantee that those gangs of little bastards were also drinking naggins as well.

.

Quite possibly.

I'm not in favour of banning it at all - quite the opposite, I said I'm in favour of legalising.

Berserker · 08-06-2018 09:15AM

circadian wrote: »

Lived in British Columbia for years, well known for their BC Bud (it really is excellent). A colleague's husband worked in the local drug squad and I asked him about the fact that weed was everywhere there.

..............

Vancouver is easily one of the safest cities I've ever set foot in. The amount of potheads is astounding, not surprised they passed this bill at all as from what I remember BC Bud is generating $3billion+ into the economy.

My wife is from Vancouver. What did you make of Downtown Eastside with respect to drugs? I have a follow on question regarding your colleague's husband based on your answer above.

Rennaws wrote: »

Agreed. Weed is as common as cornflakes. Legalizing it just takes it out of the hands of criminals and saves those who enjoy it from risking prosecution.

It will not take it out the hands of criminals. The criminals will be able to supply drugs to the general consumer far cheaper than any legal outlet and consumers will use the cost factor as justification to buy it from the illegal source.

facehugger99 · 08-06-2018 09:20AM

It's certainly not completely harmless as a drug and I've witnessed people abuse it, lose all motivation, become depressed and just fade away from society.

Then again, I've seen alcohol do far worse.

The vast majority of people who use it, do so in a responsible manner. The Government should seriously consider legalizing and regulating it. It would divert money away from the criminal gangs, who benefit the most from its current status, into the exchequer, where it could be used to fund health, education, infrastructure, etc.

It would also open up employment opportunities for growers and suppliers. It would be an interesting study to see what the likely benefits to the economy would be with taxation similar to tobacco and the additional workforce numbers.

Another knock-on effect would presumably be freeing up Garda resources that are currently being used to clamp down on cannabis - not to mention freeing up time in our overloaded court system.

All in all the benefits would seem to clearly out-weigh the downsides, but I'm not sure we are mature enough as a country to have an open and honest debate about it - at least not yet.

Cupcake_Crisis · 08-06-2018 09:21AM

Berserker wrote: »

My wife is from Vancouver. What did you make of Downtown Eastside with respect to drugs? I have a follow on question regarding your colleague's husband based on your answer above.

East Hastings isn’t the way it is because of a few joints though

Tomaldo · 08-06-2018 09:22AM

Members of The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Bob Dlyan used it, were they not 'productive people'

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2018 09:31AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Stoners are the only drug addicts who seem to get excited about their vice being legalised.

It's probably the novel idea of not having to risk arrest and prosecution anytime they want to indulge in their preferred method of relaxation.

sbsquarepants · 08-06-2018 09:32AM

Berserker wrote: »

It will not take it out the hands of criminals. The criminals will be able to supply drugs to the general consumer far cheaper than any legal outlet and consumers will use the cost factor as justification to buy it from the illegal source.

That hasn't really been the experience anywhere it has been legalised.
If you can walk into a shop and buy it, people will walk into the shop and buy it.

Berserker · 08-06-2018 09:32AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

East Hastings isn’t the way it is because of a few joints though

Really, what percentage of the addicts there used cannabis as their first drug?There were 3,000 reported overdoses over a two year period, 2015-2017, in that part of the city alone.

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2018 09:35AM

Berserker wrote: »

It will not take it out the hands of criminals. The criminals will be able to supply drugs to the general consumer far cheaper than any legal outlet and consumers will use the cost factor as justification to buy it from the illegal source.

That hasn't been the case in the countries that have legalised it so far so can you explain why it would be different here ?

Cupcake_Crisis · 08-06-2018 09:37AM

Berserker wrote: »

Really, what percentage of the addicts there used cannabis as their first drug?There were 3,000 reported overdoses over a two year period, 2015-2017, in that part of the city alone.

But not from weed though. I don’t buy the gateway drug argument, it could just as easily be said about alcohol but they’re never going to criminalize a bag of cans. Some people MAY go on to using and abuse other drugs, but the vast majority don’t. Using an area where drug addicts and homeless people congregate isn’t really a strong argument against weed.

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2018 09:38AM

Berserker wrote: »

Really, what percentage of the addicts there used cannabis as their first drug?

Are you including alcohol as a drug in that question ?

JohnnyFlash · 08-06-2018 09:59AM

The link between cannabis abuse and psychosis cannot be ignored. The Professor of Psychiatry in TCD (also the head honcho in St Patrick’s Hospital) was on Pat Kenny a few months back and spoke about the absolutely devastating effects cannabis is having on users - mainly young men, often from small rural towns. Life changing mental health issues. The prognosis for recovery is not good.

A visit to their website also says regular smoking of weed causes the following:

Social withdrawal and isolation
Anxiety, agitation, and irritability
Sleep disturbances e.g. reverse sleep cycle
Mood changes e.g. mood swings, depression or reduced emotional expression
Impaired concentration, motivation and handling of everyday stress
Loss of interest and deterioration in school, work and self-care.

It’s a nasty, dirty drug. This harmless narrative is a dangerous myth.

sbsquarepants · 08-06-2018 10:06AM

Berserker wrote: »

Really, what percentage of the addicts there used cannabis as their first drug?There were 3,000 reported overdoses over a two year period, 2015-2017, in that part of the city alone.

I'd hazard a guess at a tiny fraction of 1%

What would you say?

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2018 10:11AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s a nasty, dirty drug. This harmless narrative is a dangerous myth.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread say weed is harmless although when compared to the legal alternatives it is relatively harmless in comparison..

Alcohol is the nastiest, dirtiest drug of them all..

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61462-6/abstract

"Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places."

So If you're consistent in your argument then surely you must be in favour of banning alcohol..

Malayalam · 08-06-2018 10:12AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The link between cannabis abuse and psychosis cannot be ignored. The Professor of Psychiatry in TCD (also the head honcho in St Patrick’s Hospital) was on Pat Kenny a few months back and spoke about the absolutely devastating effects cannabis is having on users - mainly young men, often from small rural towns. Life changing mental health issues. The prognosis for recovery is not good.

A visit to their website also says regular smoking of weed causes the following:

Social withdrawal and isolation
Anxiety, agitation, and irritability
Sleep disturbances e.g. reverse sleep cycle
Mood changes e.g. mood swings, depression or reduced emotional expression
Impaired concentration, motivation and handling of everyday stress
Loss of interest and deterioration in school, work and self-care.

It’s a nasty, dirty drug. This harmless narrative is a dangerous myth.

Left to its own devices it was not a dirty nasty drug, it was just a plant used for millenia by many diverse populations as a recreational and mind-altering substance. Some people do have an allergic reaction to it - perhaps even related to ragweed allergy - just as some people have allergic reaction to gluten, nuts, dairy etc. It is not good for all, nor is over use of anything good for anyone - eg coffee, alcohol, sugar etc. There has been hybridisation of strains in recent years which has caused terrible problems among especially young users, where the psychoactive elements of the plant (THC) have been bred to be greatly increased and the relaxing (CBD) elements have been greatly reduced. How anyone manages to smoke the stuff that is generally out there now is beyond me - it is practically hallicinatory from what I have heard. Ironically this development has largely come about because the drug is completely unregulated and underground.

JohnnyFlash · 08-06-2018 10:17AM

The ‘but what about alcohol’ argument is a really shît one. It’s the definition of whataboutery. Of course alcohol is a dangerous drug when misused. It’s dangerous because it’s freely available and socially acceptable, and about 7% of the population will become addicted. So why introduce another dangerous drug into society? One primarily used by young men of below average intelligence who risk having catastrophic mental health issues as a result of regularly using it.

Stoners are absolutely pathetic creatures.

blue note · 08-06-2018 10:18AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

In reality it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference - anybody who wants it now can get it in a few minutes as it is. Would be just a bit less cloak and dagger that's all.

Personally speaking, I don't use it, it's just not my thing - but I'm all for legalisation.

I also don't think it's as harmless as certain people make it out to be, but it's still their own choice to make. It's almost certainly not as harmful as smoking and drinking to excess and certainly far less so than other drugs I've taken in the past.

My viewpoint is I own my body - what I do to it is up to me.

I wouldn't know where to get it if I wanted it now. But if it was legal I'd probably get some the odd time.

It wouldn't make a difference to stoners basically, they'll sort themselves out anyway. But to the people who used to do it back in college and now would do it occasionally if they the opportunity arose - they'd do it a little more.

Malayalam · 08-06-2018 10:25AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The ‘but what about alcohol’ argument is a really shît one. It’s the definition of whataboutery. Of course alcohol is a dangerous drug when misused. It’s dangerous because it’s freely available and socially acceptable, and about 7% of the population will become addicted. So why introduce another dangerous drug into society? One primarily used by young men of below average intelligence who risk having catastrophic mental health issues as a result of regularly using it.

Stoners are absolutely pathetic creatures.

It's funny that you say that - as someone who has previously enjoyed cannabis, and for many years has imbibed almost nothing mood-altering, bar an occasional glass of red wine - not even tea or coffee or paracetemol or anything - I find people who are drunk to be, in general, absolutely pathetic creatures. And surprisingly common.

Canada close to cannabis legalisation

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