When did parents stop parenting?

iamwhoiam · 07-06-2018 02:25PM

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

I remember children being told to keep their voices down in public places such as restaurants and busses when I was a child. I don't remember us being thought to remain silent and live in fear of raising our voices. It's amazing how the Church gets blamed for absolutely anything and everything nowadays.

Yes , we had to be quiet in churches , libraries , hospitals , shops etc . We ran wild screaming and shouting along the canal and on the beach and parks . Can't say I see any wrong in that

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 07-06-2018 02:28PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yes , we had to be quiet in churches , libraries , hospitals , shops etc . We ran wild screaming and shouting along the canal and on the beach and parks . Can't say I see any wrong in that

Exactly. We learnt how to differentiate between places where it was okay to be a bit loud, and places where it was inconsiderate to others. Nothing to do with the Church towering over us threatening us with all sorts if we didn't zip it.

Billy86 · 07-06-2018 02:30PM

People have been complaining about "this generation of unruly children and irresponsible" for as long as they've been complaining about "this generation of youths/young adults are so spoiled, entitled, clueless, and are going to ruin the entire world", e.g. probably close to as long as we've had settled societies.

Graces7 · 07-06-2018 02:32PM

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

I remember children being told to keep their voices down in public places such as restaurants and busses when I was a child. I don't remember us being taught to remain silent and live in fear of raising our voices. It's amazing how the Church gets blamed for absolutely anything and everything nowadays.

We were taught the same politeness in the UK, at state school etc

facehugger99 · 07-06-2018 02:48PM

For me personally, I stopped parenting once my kids were old enough to be able to get themselves up in the morning, figure out how to turn on Netflix and get a bowl of cornflakes.

I think this is a big milestone for any parent. Not only did it free me from the daily grind of having to get up at at 6.30am, it had a knock-on effect of opening up my evenings to a lot more alcohol consumption which I could then sleep off somewhat the next day.

Alun · 07-06-2018 03:40PM

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

Exactly. We learnt how to differentiate between places where it was okay to be a bit loud, and places where it was inconsiderate to others. Nothing to do with the Church towering over us threatening us with all sorts if we didn't zip it.

It's a pity some adults don't know the difference either!

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 07-06-2018 04:16PM

Alun wrote: »

It's a pity some adults don't know the difference either!

Well, that's true in fairness.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 07-06-2018 04:52PM

Was always the way in this type of accom, this isn't a new thing.

From the tenements to the modern apartment complex.

topper75 · 07-06-2018 04:52PM

seamus wrote: »

Classic copy-and-paste rules from someone without a clue tbh.

All well-and-good when everyone in the complex is under 30 or over 50. But in between, you're not going to get someone to stand outside supervising their 7/8/9 year old. And you're not going to be able to stop kids playing games or making noise. It's what they do. Whoever put that in the rules was a clueless idiot.

The problem is not that the kids are running around, it's that you don't have a pen to put them in. Good old Celtic tiger built apartments with a carpark in the middle, interspersed with a few sections of shrubbery and trees.
Should never have been allowed through the planning process.

Every apartment block should either contain leisure amenities like green areas and playgrounds, or be no more than 250m from such public amenities, with a clear and direct route from the apartments to the amenity. If you can't do that, you don't get planning.

Anyway, my suggestion is that rather than have a management committee sending out snarky letters and everyone laughing at them, organise a way to have a space where kids can congregate.

A solid point.

I think there is a naive consensus out there that we can laugh at the Tiger/crash years once national economic indicators have bounced back - simple as that.

Wrong - the negative impact of mistakes made in those times will ripple in our pond for decades to come. Every Irish city has such poorly designed areas.

_Dara_ · 09-06-2018 04:24PM

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

I remember children being told to keep their voices down in public places such as restaurants and busses when I was a child. I don't remember us being taught to remain silent and live in fear of raising our voices. It's amazing how the Church gets blamed for absolutely anything and everything nowadays.

My granny would frequently trot out “Children should be seen and not heard” when we were at her house and made any kind of utterance, not just being loud. I was a child of the ‘80s and ‘90s and this was quite commonplace. And was not just reserved for public places.

iamwhoiam · 09-06-2018 05:48PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

My granny would frequently trot out “Children should be seen and not heard” when we were at her house and made any kind of utterance, not just being loud. I was a child of the ‘80s and ‘90s and this was quite commonplace. And was not just reserved for public places.

My kids were born in the 80,s and ran and played and made lots of noise with numerous cousins in my Mam and Dads house .

JustAThought · 09-06-2018 07:10PM

The lack of training/parenting of kids and understanding and consideration of others is what is so different. Noise travels the same way be it from a semi-d garden or communal car park as it did in the 1980s - the difference is that kids are discarded unchecked unto the small gardens/communal public areas to howl and scream and are now uncorrected from dusk to dawn. Not all - but the same few self entitled who cause the majority of the noise problems. Kids will let rip as long as they are not parented or taught what is acceptable behaviour or acceptable levels of noise.
Thankfully for the self entitled few that ruin it for everyone you can spend about twenty euro and take a case against the parents of the family in your district court *no solicitor needed - where a judge will tell the parents to cut the noise and parent for them or order a judgement against them. You repeat once or twice until they are fined or go to jail for breeching court orders. Same process for people who own the house as those who may be renting. This is the same Environment Act that is used for noisy dogs - ironically. Interestingly I discovered that for people renting you can now claim compensation from the PTRB against landlords who fail to act against nuisance & antisocial renters that you have complained about and that they have failed to act on . Happpy Days. And no doubt this can also be used as reasonable grounds to evict them. I know specifically that housing organisations such as the one mentioned here have clauses in the leases to make them invalid if antisocial behaviour or disruption to other tenants is an issue . Happy Days again. Get letter writing and knocking on those doors !

_Dara_ · 09-06-2018 07:25PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My kids were born in the 80,s and ran and played and made lots of noise with numerous cousins in my Mam and Dads house .

I didn’t say it was everywhere and everyone, I just said it was commonplace.

iamwhoiam · 09-06-2018 07:36PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I didn’t say it was everywhere and everyone, I just said it was commonplace.

Oh i know , but being honest with you it definitely wasn't common place around our family or friends . In the 80's we had fun with our kids and long days out on a beach or lake with friends . They ran and shouted and laughed out loud . But they also knew to be quiet in churches , libraries , hospitals etc and definitely did not run around restaurants and shops !

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-06-2018 10:48AM

This post has been deleted.

the purple tin · 10-06-2018 10:54AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Oh i know , but being honest with you it definitely wasn't common place around our family or friends . In the 80's we had fun with our kids and long days out on a beach or lake with friends . They ran and shouted and laughed out loud . But they also knew to be quiet in churches , libraries , hospitals etc and definitely did not run around restaurants and shops !

We had to go about like trappist monks when da had a hangover or risk getting a thick ear

barneygumble99 · 10-06-2018 11:16AM

In the apartment block I live in, there’s four blocks of apartments with 4 apartments in each block, 2 ground floor and 2 top floor. They’re arranged like the sides of a square with a big shrubbery in the middle. I live in a ground floor and there’s a concrete path running all around the block.

All day from 9am Saturday the children are running around and cycling around the path, 5-6 of them between the ages of 3-6 I’d imagine. No one supervising them at all, cars driving in and out all day, can see it only being a matter of time before an accident happens with a car.

Now I don’t have kids, but I understand they need to play but what annoys me is the fact they are running in and out between cars and scratching them , unintentionally. You can tell them not to be going in between cars but they only remember for a short time.

I commute 10 hours a week so when Saturday comes I like a lie in and on Sunday too but this racket of bikes and tractors outside my apartment windows drives me mad at times. Luckily the weather has been good the last few weeks and we can get up and go somewhere but the sad thing is that these children are still running around when we get home around 6/7 in the evening. I say sad because the parents seem to not bring them anywhere. We are having one of the best spells of weather in a long long time and the children are just left run around the block all day.
That is the state of parenting in this country for a lot of apartment block living from what I am reading here.

Just spend some time with your kids, bring them somewhere at the weekend especially when the weather is nice. For the parent , what do you do during the nice weather, sit in your apartment watching tv and send the children out to play?? Don’t have children if you don’t want to rear them and educate them outside of school hours.

andekwarhola · 15-06-2018 09:38PM

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

Well you must laugh a lot then, because I've often heard people wondering why kids and teenagers shout instead of talking. When I was younger we used to be amazed at how loud the Spanish students used to be on the bus etc. Nowadays they don't stand out at all.

I don't think too many people complain about children playing outside because they don't like kids. Like most people, I enjoy seeing kids running around, little girls sitting around in groups chatting, kids (like last night) being taught to do cartwheels and flips on the Green by older kids and so on.

What I don't like is children (which again I saw last night) climbing up on top of our wooden bin sheds and jumping up and down on the roof breaking the slats while also having a birds eye view into one of my bedrooms. I had no problem opening the window and telling them to get down. And what I didn't like was the one annoying brat who refused to get down when all the other kids had scrambled apologetically back onto the grass, then very slowly got down, then was back up there then next time I looked out of the window. This, by the way, was all taking place about ten feet away from the Green and about 5 minutes walk from the playground.

I imagine it's that kind of annoying and intrusive behaviour that people object to. Why would anyone be bothered complaining about one off incidents or kids just playing normally?

But there are some kids who are just constantly causing problems, leading other kids astray and being a genuine nuisance. And very often they're the same kids whose parents don't care where they are, or what they're doing, and will jump to their defence if anyone complains.

So people often have no choice but to make a complaint to the Management Company. I don't think most people do that lightly or because they simply 'don't like children'.

I'll formulate a reply to this wall of denunciation when I get a chance but I'm watching the football at the moment. :pac:

The One Doctor · 15-06-2018 10:51PM

Uhh... I'm still parenting.

If you get a group of 3-5 year olds together they will scream and shout. As some have said, it's usually the people without kids who get annoyed, understandably so.

That said, there's no way to make them stop - because they are kids. Obvious conclusion, yes, but true. OP, there's no way around the problem.

Remember - you were once an obnoxious 5 year old too.

Graces7 · 16-06-2018 12:07PM

The One Doctor wrote: »

Uhh... I'm still parenting.

If you get a group of 3-5 year olds together they will scream and shout. As some have said, it's usually the people without kids who get annoyed, understandably so.

That said, there's no way to make them stop - because they are kids. Obvious conclusion, yes, but true. OP, there's no way around the problem.

Remember - you were once an obnoxious 5 year old too.

But we didn't. That is the issue here. Of course you can make them stop; teach them good manners?.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 16-06-2018 12:55PM

The One Doctor wrote: »

Uhh... I'm still parenting.

If you get a group of 3-5 year olds together they will scream and shout. As some have said, it's usually the people without kids who get annoyed, understandably so.

That said, there's no way to make them stop - because they are kids. Obvious conclusion, yes, but true. OP, there's no way around the problem.

Remember - you were once an obnoxious 5 year old too.

When I was 3-5 my parents would not have let me scream and shout in a public place such as a restaurant. I would have been told to keep quiet or brought outside. I also wouldn't have been let run around a car park unsupervised.

The above attitude is really the problem. Obviously kids make noise. Everyone knows that (yes, even us childless people). But so many parents nowadays seem to just shrug their shoulders and decide other people have to put up with it, no matter how loud it gets or in how unsuitable a venue and don't seem to take any active role in monitoring it..

Children running around playing and making noise in their own house and garden, in the park, on the beach etc is fine (within reason obviously). Children chatting and laughing in a restaurant is also fine.

But children running around playing and shouting and making a racket in a restaurant, in a church, in a cinema or theatre etc is not fine and parents should either take them out, or not bring them there in the first place.

There's a happy medium between normal kids' noise, and disruptive noise that upsets neighbours or fellow diners or whatever. But some parents like to argue on the basis that people without children want kids to be totally silent everywhere. That then gives them the great excuse 'oh well, they don't have kids, so they don't understand'.

The fact that so many parents do manage to be considerate proves that some parents are just selfish or lazy.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 16-06-2018 12:59PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

I'll formulate a reply to this wall of denunciation when I get a chance but I'm watching the football at the moment. :pac:

In other words, you've no argument to make to my 'wall of denunciation' whatever that is :pac:
Although I'm sure you'll rise to the challenge when the football is over. However, I'm putting you on ignore as I'm getting fed up with you following me around to sneer at my posts. I've no idea why you do it, I wasn't even aware of your existence until you popped up on a thread I started to make a nasty and personal comment, but I have neither the time nor the energy for it.
Find someone else to bully.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-06-2018 01:08PM

I've to laugh at some of the comments in this thread re. apartment living.

I grew up in the flats in Ballymun, at a guess I lived on Balcurris Road for 15 years (third floor flat).

Seems like in the summer months you left the flat as soon as breakfast was over and didn't come back until your mother shouted from the balcony that your dinner was ready, then you were out again.

In the good summer days the mothers would bring kitchen chairs downstairs and sit around knitting & gossiping. I don't remember my father ever doing much (if anything) so I'm guessing most fathers were the same.

I was in my teens when the scourge of heroin hit Ballymun. Although I was exposed to it a lot thankfully I was terrified of needles and wouldn't go near one, although most of my mates did, and most of them died young (from heroin).

There was the usual anti social problems you find in most working class areas, some I got wrapped up in, most I didn't.

I joined the army at 18 and that was the real turning point in my life (we lived in a house in Poppintree at this stage).

So when did parenting stop for me?.. It never did, I'm 52 now and have been relatively successful & my mother still smoothers me, or she'd be on the phone telling me how worried she is for one of my bothers or sister. Asking if I need any help at home etc etc.

People often ask me what got me involved in Martial Arts, I tell them I was a fat kid with red hair, freckles and buck teeth growing up in the flats in Ballymun. I had a choice, run or fight ~ like I said I was fat so I didn't like running lol (now I can't stop)

So yea, I have to laugh at some of the Molly Coddling going on here but carry on

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-06-2018 01:14PM

The One Doctor wrote: »

Uhh... I'm still parenting.

If you get a group of 3-5 year olds together they will scream and shout. As some have said, it's usually the people without kids who get annoyed, understandably so.

That said, there's no way to make them stop - because they are kids. Obvious conclusion, yes, but true. OP, there's no way around the problem.

Remember - you were once an obnoxious 5 year old too.

I'm sorry but it's that attitude that leads to the problem. Children can be thought to behave properly in public. I have children and grandchildren and they never scream and shout to the annoyance of others. They learn social etiquette early in life and that includes respect for others.
Of course there's a way to make them stop. You tell them not to. The old "sure they're only children" or "that's what children do" is a cop out. Children can be children and children can play and shout when appropriate. It's up to the parents to teach them what is acceptable .

Graces7 · 16-06-2018 01:16PM

Macie Young Blonde wrote: »

I've to laugh at some of the comments in this thread re. apartment living.
I grew up in the flats in Ballymun, at a guess I lived on Balcurris Road for 15
years (third floor flat).
Seems like in the summer months you left the flat as soon as breakfast was over and didn't come back until your mother shouted from the balcony that your dinner was ready, then you were out again.
In the good summer days the mothers would bring kitchen chairs downstairs and sit around knitting & gossiping. I don't remember my father ever doing much (if anything) so I'm guessing most fathers were the same.

I was in my teens when the scourge of heroin hit Ballymun. Although I was exposed to it a lot thankfully I was terrified of needles and wouldn't go near one, although most of my mates did, and most of them died young (from heroin).

There was the usual anti social problems you find in most working class areas, some I got wrapped up in, most I didn't.

I joined the army at 18 and that was the real turning point in my life (we lived in a house in Poppintree at this stage).

So when did parenting stop for me?.. It never did, I'm 52 now and have been relatively successful & my mother still smoothers me, or she'd be on the phone telling me how worried she is for one of my bothers or sister. Asking if I need any help at home etc etc.

People often ask me what got me involved in Martial Arts, I tell them I was a fat kid with red hair, freckles and buck teeth growing up in the flats in Ballymun. I had a choice, run or fight ~ like I said I was fat so I didn't like running lol (now I can't stop)

So yea, I have to laugh at some of the Molly Coddling going on here but carry on

Strange basic contradiction here...Maybe some good parenting would have saved those lads? But that would be.... mollycoddling?

And you are not parenting but being.... mollycoddled..

andekwarhola · 16-06-2018 04:24PM

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

However, I'm putting you on ignore as I'm getting fed up with you following me around to sneer at my posts. I've no idea why you do it

I was answering a reply you made to a post of mine

Ignore sounds a good course of action though. I actually agree.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 17-06-2018 03:39PM

Macie Young Blonde wrote: »

I've to laugh at some of the comments in this thread re. apartment living.

I grew up in the flats in Ballymun, at a guess I lived on Balcurris Road for 15 years (third floor flat).

Seems like in the summer months you left the flat as soon as breakfast was over and didn't come back until your mother shouted from the balcony that your dinner was ready, then you were out again.

In the good summer days the mothers would bring kitchen chairs downstairs and sit around knitting & gossiping. I don't remember my father ever doing much (if anything) so I'm guessing most fathers were the same.

I was in my teens when the scourge of heroin hit Ballymun. Although I was exposed to it a lot thankfully I was terrified of needles and wouldn't go near one, although most of my mates did, and most of them died young (from heroin).

There was the usual anti social problems you find in most working class areas, some I got wrapped up in, most I didn't.

I joined the army at 18 and that was the real turning point in my life (we lived in a house in Poppintree at this stage).

So when did parenting stop for me?.. It never did, I'm 52 now and have been relatively successful & my mother still smoothers me, or she'd be on the phone telling me how worried she is for one of my bothers or sister. Asking if I need any help at home etc etc.

People often ask me what got me involved in Martial Arts, I tell them I was a fat kid with red hair, freckles and buck teeth growing up in the flats in Ballymun. I had a choice, run or fight ~ like I said I was fat so I didn't like running lol (now I can't stop)

So yea, I have to laugh at some of the Molly Coddling going on here but carry on

I agree with Grace. There's a bit of a contradiction here. I don't think it's mollycoddling children to expect that if large estates are built, including several apartment blocks, there should be some kind of facilities for the kids - a park, a proper green area to play in, a community centre running activities, a sports club. That's exactly the kind of thing that will make it less likely that kids will be hanging around bored and getting into trouble and causing trouble for other people.

JustAThought · 18-06-2018 11:18AM

I dont think Ballymun in the 80's or 90's is a paradigm of good parenting. And as repeatedly pointed out here letting kids run wild from dawn to dusk on green areas and common areas is not parenting.

optogirl · 18-06-2018 11:36AM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nobody? Hardly

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 19-06-2018 11:23AM

JustAThought wrote: »

I dont think Ballymun in the 80's or 90's is a paradigm of good parenting. And as repeatedly pointed out here letting kids run wild from dawn to dusk on green areas and common areas is not parenting.

Surely a large part of the problem with areas like Ballymun and Tallaght was that huge estates were built with little or no facilities for the people living there. That's why a huge amount of money has been spent in the last couple of decades on regenerating these areas and building decent libraries, cinemas, theatres, sports facilities, playgrounds etc

However, private developers are still being allowed to build large numbers of houses and apartment blocks in similar situations. Often when people are buying them there are promises of all kinds of facilities to be built in the near future. Then the developers disappear and people are left paying sizeable mortgages to live in soulless developments with no community feel at all.

When did parents stop parenting?

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