When did parents stop parenting?

Blanchy90

Bit of a rant haha

Absolutely sick of all the kids out playing in the common area in our apartment block.The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

I have no problem with kids playing but these kids have no manners at all. They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

I don't know how the parents let the kids out like that, the complex has a gate but there's always people coming in and out so anything could happen.

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

End rant haha

Kimbot

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Bit of a rant haha

Absolutely sick of all the kids out playing in the common area in our apartment block.The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

I have no problem with kids playing but these kids have no manners at all. They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

I don't know how the parents let the kids out like that, the complex has a gate but there's always people coming in and out so anything could happen.

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

End rant haha

Have you brought the issue up with the Management Committee?

verycool

I voted yes.

Blanchy90

Kimbot wrote: »

Have you brought the issue up with the Management Committee?

We have had a lot of interaction with the management company about it and they have sent out a few letters with the rules highlighted.

A few neighbors have raised it separately, being on the ground floor its getting unbearable having little

****s

...angels screaming outside the bedroom window when a baby is trying to sleep

eviltwin

Modern living eh? Apartment complexes aren't really the environment for kids, I'd say a lot of their parents would prefer a house with a garden or green space so not fair on anyone. Kids need room to run around and they need to be able to play and be noisy, it's part of what childhood is all about, they need to be kids but in this kind of space it's very intrusive on everyone.

riffmongous

Sounds like Dublin in the rare ould times to me

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I do have sympathy with you, but I think the thread title is a bit misleading.

Where I live the majority of kids are pretty well behaved, polite and are called in at a reasonable time at night. But there's a minority whose children are rude, have no respect for other people's property or privacy, and are still out shouting and roaring and kicking balls around until all hours. They're very annoying and frustrating, but they're the product of a minority of parents.

But re your situation, yes I can see that it's annoying. A lot of people seem to think that Management Company rules and regulations are just a box ticking exercise, and they can ignore them once they've moved into their property.

Blanchy90

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

I do have sympathy with you, but I think the thread title is a bit misleading.

Where I live the majority of kids are pretty well behaved, polite and are called in at a reasonable time at night. But there's a minority whose children are rude, have no respect for other people's property or privacy, and are still out shouting and roaring and kicking balls around until all hours. They're very annoying and frustrating, but they're the product of a minority of parents.

But re your situation, yes I can see that it's annoying. A lot of people seem to think that Management Company rules and regulations are just a box ticking exercise, and they can ignore them once they've moved into their property.

Its the opposite where I am I can honestly say I've never seen the parents of most of these kids there just left to run wild, Ive had to tell toddlers not to play in the underground carpark....

There are a small number of kids who are well behaved and the parents are out and about with them, but the majority of they are rude / talk back / damage the communal property and in general are just a nuisance

seamus

Blanchy90 wrote: »

The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

Classic copy-and-paste rules from someone without a clue tbh.

All well-and-good when everyone in the complex is under 30 or over 50. But in between, you're not going to get someone to stand outside supervising their 7/8/9 year old. And you're not going to be able to stop kids playing games or making noise. It's what they do. Whoever put that in the rules was a clueless idiot.

The problem is not that the kids are running around, it's that you don't have a pen to put them in. Good old Celtic tiger built apartments with a carpark in the middle, interspersed with a few sections of shrubbery and trees.
Should never have been allowed through the planning process.

Every apartment block should either contain leisure amenities like green areas and playgrounds, or be no more than 250m from such public amenities, with a clear and direct route from the apartments to the amenity. If you can't do that, you don't get planning.

Anyway, my suggestion is that rather than have a management committee sending out snarky letters and everyone laughing at them, organise a way to have a space where kids can congregate.

SEPT 23 1989

blame the planners and developers

whisky_galore

eviltwin wrote: »

Modern living eh? Apartment complexes aren't really the environment for kids, I'd say a lot of their parents would prefer a house with a garden or green space so not fair on anyone. Kids need room to run around and they need to be able to play and be noisy, it's part of what childhood is all about, they need to be kids but in this kind of space it's very intrusive on everyone.

How do the Continentals manage where apartment living is quite normal?

Are Am Eye

The essence of a good plan is simplicity.
Once plans get to complex everything can go wrong.

Colonel Claptrap

OP, did a parent never tell you to go out and play with the traffic as a kid?

Buckfast W

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Bit of a rant haha

Absolutely sick of all the kids out playing in the common area in our apartment block.The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

I have no problem with kids playing but these kids have no manners at all. They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

I don't know how the parents let the kids out like that, the complex has a gate but there's always people coming in and out so anything could happen.

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

End rant haha

Can I ask where you live?

I've been onto my management company and Cluid this morning over the same issues.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Blanchy90

Blanchy90 wrote: »

We have had a lot of interaction with the management company about it and they have sent out a few letters with the rules highlighted.

A few neighbors have raised it separately, being on the ground floor its getting unbearable having little

****s

...angels screaming outside the bedroom window when a baby is trying to sleep

Come back to use when your baby is a little older and they are stuck inside a small apartment and tell us how your child is taken to the park 6 hours a day, plays quietly by themselves, never every runs anywhere, never raised their voice.

On Sunday followed a toddler who ran for over an hour on a walk while we all jogged to keep up with him, children have incredible energy and need to run around to use it up.

Graces7

mariaalice wrote: »

Come back to use when your baby is a little older and they are stuck inside a small apartment and tell us how your child is taken to the park 6 hours a day, plays quietly by themselves, never every runs anywhere, never raised their voice.

On Sunday followed a toddler who ran for over an hour on a walk while we all jogged to keep up with him, children have incredible energy and need to run around to use it up.

We played outside on streets but we never made such a racket that neighbours wee disturbed. Not allowed to by parents etc.

They once set an Olympic athlete up to follow a toddler; guess who tired first...

Buckfast W

mariaalice wrote: »

Come back to use when your baby is a little older and they are stuck inside a small apartment and tell us how your child is taken to the park 6 hours a day, plays quietly by themselves, never every runs anywhere, never raised their voice.

On Sunday followed a toddler who ran for over an hour on a walk while we all jogged to keep up with him, children have incredible energy and need to run around to use it up.

There's a bit of a difference between children playing outside and children running wild completely unsupervised, these people seem to forget that these communal spaces aren't private playgrounds for there children. There are other residents there that don't have kids. Why should the majority be made suffer by a minority of people??

thomas 123

Same issue in an estate with mixed accommodation Townhouse / detached houses.

I have an area with trees outside my Townhouse where the creche(Which is also in the estate) brings the toddlers up to play around(Loudly). Its also the hangout for the teens at night and 5-12 year olds during the day. All 5m away from my office/bedroom windows.

One time 3 kids used my gable wall to play hurling...

I knocked on the window before and the 3 kids looked back up at me as if to say who do you think you are.

I work from home so probably take issue with this more than most people.

All in all boo common areas and boo parents who have no respect for others privacy. I feel your pain OP.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

mariaalice wrote: »

Come back to use when your baby is a little older and they are stuck inside a small apartment and tell us how your child is taken to the park 6 hours a day, plays quietly by themselves, never every runs anywhere, never raised their voice.

On Sunday followed a toddler who ran for over an hour on a walk while we all jogged to keep up with him, children have incredible energy and need to run around to use it up.

That doesn't mean that other residents have no rights to consideration though. Also, presumably these parents signed up to the Management rules when they bought or rented their apartments.

I agree there's a problem with many parents only being able to afford to live in apartments and apartments in Ireland not usually being constructed with family life in mind.

But their fellow residents have a right to quality of life too, and it seems in this case that parents are just letting their kids run wild around the place and making no effort to find some kind of compromise.

iamwhoiam

Patww79 wrote: »

Everything is the fault of [insert celebrity/company name here] these days. Nobody can be bothered rearing their own spawn any more. Too much like work.

Nobody ? That is not true , I see good parents all around me . My own grandchildren are beautifully behaved , disciplined . Their friends are well reared and well used to behaving and being corrected .

JupiterKid

whisky_galore wrote: »

How do the Continentals manage where apartment living is quite normal?

Because their apartment complexes are well built and well designed with designated areas for children to play in, decent sized apts with 3+ bedrooms, excellent sound insulation, good storage facilities, robust fittings, decent size living spaces etc. Close to parks, schools and other child friendly amenities.

Something most Irish apartment developers can’t seem capable of achieving as they build the worst possible quality rubbish on the cheap. Priory Hall wasn’t just an isolated case you know.

Developers think apts are only for single people and couples who will just live there temporarily and everyone wants to live in a suburban semi when they have kids or move to a one-off McMansion in the countryside where the kids will have to be ferried everywhere by car.

It’s bloody joke. And funnily enough, many of my friends on the continent that have a child or two can actually afford their well built apartment.

Irish builders and landlords are greed merchants who try to get away with the basic minimum. There are exceptions but these are exceptions. The truth hurts.

Now try posting this in the Accommodation and Property forum and see what response you’ll get from our “I’m all right jack” landlords class.

People in Ireland always talk about how raising children in the countryside is so much better. Is that because there are no decent options for them to do in towns and cities where accommodation standards are so shoddy and there are no decent play spaces? Yes the country can be a great place to raise a child, bit I’d wager many here would raise a child in a well built well designed affordable urban dwelling if they had the option.

Sad...:(

the_syco

whisky_galore wrote: »

How do the Continentals manage where apartment living is quite normal?

I'm guessing that the complexes have facilities for their tenants, and they're less sue happy if their kid falls over whilst playing.

whisky_galore

the_syco wrote: »

I'm guessing that the complexes have facilities for their tenants, and they're less sue happy if their kid falls over whilst playing.

Not necessarily to the first, without a doubt to the latter.

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

blame the planners and developers

blame the ADHD and autism. That’s what plenty of Jayden and Kaydens have now, diagnosed by their full time mammy of course.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

JupiterKid wrote: »

Because their apartment complexes are well built and well designed with designated areas for children to play in, decent sized apts with 3+ bedrooms, excellent sound insulation, good storage facilities, robust fitting, decent zize living spaces etc. Close to parks, schools and other child friendly amenities.

Something most Irish apartment developers can’t seem capable of achieving as they build the worst possible quality rubbish on the cheap. Priory Hall wasn’t just an isolated case you know.

Developers think apts are only for single people and couples who will just live there temporarily and everyone wants to live in a suburban semi when they have kids or move to a one-off McMansion in the countryside where the kids will have to be ferried everywhere by car.

It’s bloody joke. And funnily enough, many of my friends on the continent that have a child or two can actually afford their well built apartment.

Irish builders and landlords are greed merchants who try to get away with the basic minimum. There are exceptions but these are exceptions. The truth hurts.

Now try posting this in the Accommodation and Property forum and see what response you’ll get from our “I’m all right jack” landlords class.

People in Ireland always talk about how raising children in the countryside is so much better. Is that because there are no decent options for them to do in towns and cities where accommodation standards are so shoddy and there are no decent play spaces? Yes the country can be a great place to raise a child, bit I’d wager many here would raise a child in a well built well designed affordable urban dwelling if they had the option.

Sad...:(

Exactly. Builders and developers continue to view apartments as a 'passing through' phase of people's lives despite the increasing number of families, middle aged people and downsizers who now live in them. They get away with poor soundproofing, inadequate storage and promises of amenities that never materialise.

LirW

the_syco wrote: »

I'm guessing that the complexes have facilities for their tenants, and they're less sue happy if their kid falls over whilst playing.

Nope, you'd take the kid to the park where the playground is. It's just coming more and more to build blocks with playgrounds, it's definitely not a given. And as long as kids don't damage a property or act up, nobody gives a hoot if they play in the little green or the parking lot. I have the feeling people in some parts of Europe are just less touchy.
Also it's perfectly normal to take the kids out, you factor that into your day somehow. It's really not as much of a big deal as Irish people make it to be. I grew up in apartments, mostly non-complex, you simply accustom to the circumstances and everyone's fine.

Buckfast W

Tinley Skinny Self-preservation wrote: »

Exactly. Builders and developers continue to view apartments as a 'passing through' phase of people's lives despite the increasing number of families, middle aged people and downsizers who now live in them. They get away with poor soundproofing, inadequate storage and promises of amenities that never materialise.

All that is true but it doesn't absolve from bad parenting. Children should not be using an underground car park as a playground under any circumstances. In my estate the other week a child was almost knocked down by a car while playing in the underground. No doubt the parents of the child would be blaming the driver and not themselves if something serious had happened.

The Caveman

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Bit of a rant haha

Absolutely sick of all the kids out playing in the common area in our apartment block.The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

I have no problem with kids playing but these kids have no manners at all. They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

I don't know how the parents let the kids out like that, the complex has a gate but there's always people coming in and out so anything could happen.

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

End rant haha

We must live in the same complex.

I could not believe that kids that young, is unsupervised.

I am not sure on their age, but must be between 3 and 4. No adult in sight.

Constant screaming/crying nonstop, from 6 pm ish when I get home, till well after 9 pm

Our Building Management will only get involved if it continues after 10 pm.

And, if yo uare a parent readign this, it is not OK to do this.

JupiterKid

A lot of the problems with poorly built apts that aren’t child friendly is down to poor/corrupt planning and a lack of a mature urban culture. We Irish (perhaps understandably) have a collective folk memory of the decrepit city tenements of the past or growing up in rural areas and see urban = bad and suburban or rural = good.

Remember Ireland urbanized a century after most developed countries. We only passed the 50% urban population mark in 1971 - less than 50 years ago. Combine this with an immature attitude to cities and good urban design, badly designed and built apartments that are too small and badly laid out and our obsession with land/property ownership and you have a recipe for the problems the OP complained about.

But the reality is that home ownership after a century of growth is in decline for 15 years now, private renting is the largest growing housing tenure, more apartments than ever are being built, the accelerating rate of urbanisation of our society and things will simply have to change.

For the record I’m an owner occupier of an apt and a landlord of another - but I can’t rent to families with children as the place I own is too small and unsuitable for families with children. However, many other landlords don’t seem to have a problem with that as long as they can squeeze the maximum possible rent out of their “investment.”

listermint

What i find amusing is these folks think they are in the Majority.

Look at the birth rates OP, you are the minority. Most of these people have no wish to live in a poxy size apartments next to grumpy yolks giving out. They would much prefer to be out somewhere with outside space for their children. But these are the cards that we dealt.

Il say what i say to all folks when they buy an apartment, You literally live on top of people, if you dont like noise then dont be a spanner and buy / rent an apartment. Live somewhere else.

Kids will play , people will make noise - people living on top of each other is a dream..................

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Buckfast W wrote: »

All that is true but it doesn't absolve from bad parenting. Children should not be using an underground car park as a playground under any circumstances. In my estate the other week a child was almost knocked down by a car while playing in the underground. No doubt the parents of the child would be blaming the driver and not themselves if something serious had happened.

I totally agree. I feel sorry for parents who are trying to bring up children in Irish apartment blocks, but at the end of the day they still have to consider the safety of their children and the right to consideration of other residents.

Letting kids run around car parks, or damage communal property is not on, regardless of where you live.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

listermint wrote: »

What i find amusing is these folks think they are in the Majority.

Look at the birth rates OP, you are the minority. Most of these people have no wish to live in a poxy size apartments next to grumpy yolks giving out. They would much prefer to be out somewhere with outside space for their children. But these are the cards that we dealt.

Il say what i say to all folks when they buy an apartment, You literally live on top of people, if you dont like noise then dont be a spanner and buy / rent an apartment. Live somewhere else.

Kids will play , people will make noise - people living on top of each other is a dream..................

Why does someone being in the minority mean they have fewer rights to consideration?

whisky_galore

The 'Irish Dream' of owning your own house with a lawn and space for a trampoline is just a dream now for many people.

Re screaming kids, this country was never the best at civic responsibility, that's why people here fly tip and let their dogs wander and shyte with impunity.

AndrewJRenko

Buckfast W wrote: »

In my estate the other week a child was almost knocked down by a car while playing in the underground. No doubt the parents of the child would be blaming the driver and not themselves if something serious had happened.

Remember that little bit of traffic law about driving in a manner that allows you to stop within the distance you can see to be clear?

TheFever

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Bit of a rant haha

Absolutely sick of all the kids out playing in the common area in our apartment block.The rules of the complex are that children must be supervised at all times, no ball games at all and children must be quiet as not to disturb everyone in the complex.

I have no problem with kids playing but these kids have no manners at all. They are constantly running around screaming all day and into the night. There's kinds as young as 3-5 out completely unsupervised out till 9:30pm and there's regularly toddlers out with older siblings (5-7)

I don't know how the parents let the kids out like that, the complex has a gate but there's always people coming in and out so anything could happen.

Also no 5 year old should be out playing at 9:30pm on a school night.

End rant haha

Sounds fantastic, much better than being stuck in a sitting room with an i pad.

Kids are the solution .

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

TheFever wrote: »

Sounds fantastic, much better than being stuck in a sitting room with an i pad.

Kids are the solution .

Why do some people feel the only alternative to kids being allowed run wild is to have them stuck inside with their ipad? The above post may be tongue in cheek, but you see this kind of response over and over on threads like this one.

Birneybau

TheFever wrote: »

Sounds fantastic, much better than being stuck in a sitting room with an i pad.

Kids are the solution .

To what question?

TheFever

Birneybau wrote: »

To what question?

Kids are the solution to everything .

Buckfast W

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Remember that little bit of traffic law about driving in a manner that allows you to stop within the distance you can see to be clear?

Yeah that's not always the case when I'm coming to a blind corner to turn up the ramp to exit the underground and the kids are flying down because they're using for there scooters, even if I stopped the car and inched forward they can still come down at speed and seriously hurt themselves because they have no way to see where they're going, but sure it's my fault because I'm in a car and I'm obviously being insensitive to the needs of the other residents that feel an underground car park with all its dangers is an appropriate place for their children to play.

Is that answer sufficient enough or would you like to throw in another smart remark?

ceadaoin.

Why do Irish estates and apartment buildings have zero facilities? Years ago I lived in Park West. There was a huge empty field in front the apartments, perfect space for a playground and exercise facilities given that there was no park within walking distance. Instead it was populated by tenants drinking cans on sunny days. Same with housing estates, most have plenty of open spaces like fields, with nothing on them. What is the point of that? Playgrounds and tennis courts etc only seem to exist in large parks.

Why shouldn't kids be able to play where they live? It's normal behaviour. If there were proper facilities then it wouldn't be a problem. Would it not foster a better sense of community for residents to have playgrounds, sporting, bbq and dog walking areas where they live?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Buckfast W

ceadaoin. wrote:

Why shouldn't kids be able to play where they live? It's normal behaviour. If there were proper facilities then it wouldn't be a problem.

There's a playground less than 60 seconds from where I live, another one at the end of the estate and a big park 15 min walk(maximum) away but it's easier for the parents to open their doors and ignore their children screaming around the courtyard.

ceadaoin.

Patww79 wrote: »

There's a big green straight across the road here, numerous goal posts and all, and the little brats still play on the road outside the house. Outside this house naturally as Mummy and Daddy have them well trained not to damage their own cars.

Well what is the point of just a "green" is what I'm saying. Not all kids want to play ball. If there was something on there like a playground or bike track, picnic area, basketball court etc then it might be more appealing to kids (and adults). I suppose the residents would complain about that too.

Graces7

At what point , reading about kids racing round in underground car parks, does this all become parental negligence?

Blanchy90

My issue isn't the kids playing it's children being completely unsupervised. As for the size of the apartments most of them here are actually a decent size (except the one beds, they're shoeboxes and I'm in one). Granted there are no facilities for children in the complex but within a 15 minute walk there are 3 parks all with playgrounds and other facilities

ceadaoin.

Graces7 wrote: »

At what point , reading about kids racing round in underground car parks, does this all become parental negligence?

Kids playing in carparks is negligence. Kids playing where they live is not (once they are adequately supervised). Just because some people don't have kids doesn't mean they are entitled to never have to see or hear any. Children are part of society, they live in apartments and they like to play. Get used to it!

ceadaoin.

Buckfast W wrote: »

There's a playground less than 60 seconds from where I live, another one at the end of the estate and a big park 15 min walk(maximum) away but it's easier for the parents to open their doors and ignore their children screaming around the courtyard.

Well parents can't spend every minute of the day in Parks and playgrounds. They have other things to do. Same as how my daughter would play in the garden while I'm making dinner. They shouldn't be unsupervised though.

Birneybau

TheFever wrote: »

Birneybau wrote: »

To what question?

Kids are the solution to everything .

Global hunger? There's not much eating on most of them

Buckfast W

ceadaoin. wrote:

Well parents can't spend every minute of the day in Parks and playgrounds. They have other things to do. Same as how my daughter would play in the garden while I'm making dinner. They shouldn't be unsupervised though.

Well these children are unsupervised. If the parents feel so strongly that the children need to play they could take it in turns to bring the kids to the playground for an hour. Instead for them it's out of sight out of mind.

It always amazes me that people just shrug of the behaviour of children with "kids will be kids". A lot of my neighbours don't have children so why should they be subjected to the constant noise and disruption from other people's kids?

My brother has 2 children in the same estate but he actually does things with them.