A legalise drugs thread. This time it’s different.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 08:03PM #1

So our socially progressive government have finally started to look at alternatives to criminal prosecution for drugs offences. They have a questionnaire up here -> https://health.gov.ie/consultations/

I would recommend everyone go and complete the form. I have suggested legalisation of all drugs with a view to treating addiction as a medical issue rather than through the courts and I would advise you all to do the same. For anyone who balks at the idea of legalising heroin, I suggest you research what Portugal has done over the past 10 years and how they have a falling rates of new HIV infections among addicts and a falling number of addicts as a whole. Money saved by doing this can be ploughed into public services and actual crime.

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/success-portugal’s-decriminalisation-policy-–-seven-charts

SEPT 23 1989 · 31-05-2018 08:12PM

Nice try copper

stimpson · 31-05-2018 08:15PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Nice try copper

I don’t know what you mean

31-05-2018 08:16PM

Hello yes i would like one drugs please

Allinall · 31-05-2018 08:22PM

stimpson wrote: »

Money saved by doing this can be ploughed into public services and actual crime.

Feck that.

We’ve enough crime already, without pouring more money into it.

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 08:23PM

stimpson wrote: »

So our socially progressive government have finally started to look at alternatives to criminal prosecution for drugs offences. They have a questionnaire up here -> https://health.gov.ie/consultations/

I would recommend everyone go and complete the form. I have suggested legalisation of all drugs with a view to treating addiction as a medical issue rather than through the courts and I would advise you all to do the same. For anyone who balks at the idea of legalising heroin, I suggest you research what Portugal has done over the past 10 years and how they have a falling rates of new HIV infections among addicts and a falling number of addicts as a whole. Money saved by doing this can be ploughed into public services and actual crime.

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/success-portugal’s-decriminalisation-policy-–-seven-charts

Excellent tread and fair play. Completed.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 08:27PM

Allinall wrote: »

Feck that.

We’ve enough crime already, without pouring more money into it.

Well the guards will need something to do when they can’t bust kids for having a ten spot. Do they even call them ten spots anymore?

North inner city hoodlum · 31-05-2018 08:42PM

stimpson wrote: »

Well the guards will need something to do when they can’t bust kids for having a ten spot. Do they even call them ten spots anymore?

Ten spots..... Those were the days.... Memories... Never mind ten spots there's a premium now on hashish.

It's all about the weed now and most guards don't want someone charged for small possession hash/weed for personal use,that's the DPP charges for statistical purposes.

Free up the guards who are snowed under with paper work and tolerate drug use by legal means tax regulate and pump all profits into the guards, health service and harm reduction and addiction services to name a few.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 31-05-2018 08:42PM

Absolutely not.

We have enough problems with young people killing each other already.

Legalizing grass will lead to our young people becoming hash heads and taking even harder drugs.

There's enough problems without people being whacked out of it on jazz fags.

Gardai need to take a zero tolerance approach to drugs.

captbarnacles · 31-05-2018 08:45PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Gardai need to take a zero tolerance approach to drugs.

Definitely. Always works out well.

wexie · 31-05-2018 08:50PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Gardai need to take a zero tolerance approach to drugs.

You're right, that's always worked really well historically.

(did I miss the <sarcasm> tags again?)

brianregan09 · 31-05-2018 09:05PM

I did it aswell fare play OP

Pintman Paddy Losty · 31-05-2018 09:11PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Definitely. Always works out well.

Well it's better than the alternative. The OP is proposing legalising all drugs. That's absolutely ridiculous.

So you'd be happy enough for your ambulance driver to arrive to pick you up monged off his head on grass. Bleary-eyed dropping you to the hospital via KFC because he got the munchies.

Young people these days are running riot. Imagine what it would be liken it you add disco biscuits to the mix.

wexie · 31-05-2018 09:15PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

So you'd be happy enough for your ambulance driver to arrive to pick you up monged off his head on grass. Bleary-eyed dropping you to the hospital via KFC because he got the munchies..

Wouldn't be particularly happy to be honest.

Wouldn't be particularly happy if he showed up having just had a feed of pints and stopped on the way for a bag of chips either.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 09:23PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Well it's better than the alternative. The OP is proposing legalising all drugs. That's absolutely ridiculous.

So you'd be happy enough for your ambulance driver to arrive to pick you up monged off his head on grass. Bleary-eyed dropping you to the hospital via KFC because he got the munchies.

Young people these days are running riot. Imagine what it would be liken it you add disco biscuits to the mix.

I didn’t say they should be compulsory.

Does your ambulance driver show up after drinking a bag of cans? Does he stop for a spice bag on the way?

The high horse brigade · 31-05-2018 09:40PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Well it's better than the alternative. The OP is proposing legalising all drugs. That's absolutely ridiculous.

So you'd be happy enough for your ambulance driver to arrive to pick you up monged off his head on grass. Bleary-eyed dropping you to the hospital via KFC because he got the munchies.

Young people these days are running riot. Imagine what it would be liken it you add disco biscuits to the mix.

No I expect him to obey the rules of the road and be sober from all toxic substances while in control of a vehicle. What he does while he's not working or driving is none of my business.

wexie · 31-05-2018 09:41PM

Dammit dammit sonofabitch....

I actually agree with the high horse brigade...

must be getting old

brianregan09 · 31-05-2018 10:05PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Well it's better than the alternative. The OP is proposing legalising all drugs. That's absolutely ridiculous.

So you'd be happy enough for your ambulance driver to arrive to pick you up monged off his head on grass. Bleary-eyed dropping you to the hospital via KFC because he got the munchies.

Young people these days are running riot. Imagine what it would be liken it you add disco biscuits to the mix.

This is the most childish closed minded response I thought possible

pudzey101 · 31-05-2018 10:06PM

people that think cannabis is worse than alcohol are just plain stupid

robp · 31-05-2018 10:16PM

In fairness drug use is already treated as a medical issue and not a criminal issue. Only selling is treating as a criminal matter.

31-05-2018 10:18PM

brianregan09 wrote: »

This is the most childish closed minded response I thought possible

He is, quite obviously, taking the piss. Everyone is falling for it hook, line and sinker. Sure he's even named after your man who allegedly downed forty pints.

italodisco · 31-05-2018 10:20PM

OP should come stay a few nights down my way in North inner city, he might change his mind.

Come talk to the locals that have sons and daughters who's lives were ruined by heroin, willing to bet they won't see any positives legalising it.

stimpson · 31-05-2018 10:22PM

italodisco wrote: »

OP should come stay a few nights down my way in North inner city, he might change his mind.

Come talk to the locals that have sons and daughters who's lives were ruined by heroin, willing to bet they won't see any positives legalising it.

I’ve more than enough first hand experience of it. The idea is damage limitation. If you can take the illegality away and provide supports for addicts you see better outcomes. Heroin has been illegal for decades and it hasn’t fixed the problem. Maybe we should try something else that has been shown to work better.

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 10:24PM

italodisco wrote: »

OP should come stay a few nights down my way in North inner city, he might change his mind.

Come talk to the locals that have sons and daughters who's lives were ruined by heroin, willing to bet they won't see any positives legalising it.

That's not what they're experiencing in Portugal and I believe the Swiss before that. It's also not legalisation despite the title, it's decriminalisation. How many drug addicts have gotten off drugs by a stint in prison?

italodisco · 31-05-2018 10:52PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's not what they're experiencing in Portugal and I believe the Swiss before that. It's also not legalisation despite the title, it's decriminalisation. How many drug addicts have gotten off drugs by a stint in prison?

I hate to break it to you but here in Dublin we've had and still have much higher levels of heroin abuse than Spain, Switzerland or Portugal. They have never experienced the heroin epidemic that hit dublin.

Drug addicts don't get sent to prison for possession of heroin for personal use, they get sent to prison for the crimes they commit to feed their habit.

There are and have been for a very long time treatment programs and supports in place here.

There's no point telling me otherwise, living in North inner city and having first hand experience with the effects that drug have on a family is enough for me to make my decision.

Legalising weed and ecstasy is a different matter, I'd fully support that more so for harm reduction / quality control. They don't don't take over a person's life to the extent heroin does, whereas legalising heroin just makes it easier to get and makes it easier for people to become addicts. Why the hell would you want to legalise a drug so addictive

italodisco · 31-05-2018 10:54PM

stimpson wrote: »

I’ve more than enough first hand experience of it. The idea is damage limitation. If you can take the illegality away and provide supports for addicts you see better outcomes. Heroin has been illegal for decades and it hasn’t fixed the problem. Maybe we should try something else that has been shown to work better.

Yes sure decriminalising one of the most addictive soul destroying substances on the planet is sure to help....

Supports are in place and have been for a very long time.

I think you'll find the issues with heroin, in Dublin anyway, are more on a social level.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 10:56PM

italodisco wrote:

Legalising weed and ecstasy is a different matter, I'd fully support that more so for harm reduction / quality control. They don't don't take over a person's life to the extent heroin does, whereas legalising heroin just makes it easier to get and makes it easier for people to become addicts. Why the hell would you want to legalise a drug so addictive

You re right, We should probably reconsider our laws on alcohol and tobacco, and maybe make them illegal also!

italodisco · 31-05-2018 10:59PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

You re right, We should probably reconsider our laws on alcohol and tobacco, and maybe make them illegal also!

So alcohol and tobacco are on par with heroin?

Really?

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 11:01PM

italodisco wrote:

So alcohol and tobacco are on par with heroin?

Could be argued, yes, how many lives has both destroyed? I suspect it's well in the millions, if not billions. Both also highly addictive

italodisco · 31-05-2018 11:04PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Could be argued, yes, how many lives has both destroyed? I suspect it's well in the millions, if not billions. Both also highly addictive

Easy spot who's not from Dublin / from an area ravaged by heroin.

Well done son!

Samuel T. Cogley · 31-05-2018 11:05PM

italodisco wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but here in Dublin we've had and still have much higher levels of heroin abuse than Spain, Switzerland or Portugal. They have never experienced the heroin epidemic that hit dublin.

That's not really the point. They've seen a reduction since decriminalisation. Taking Stimpson's word on it in Portugal, I thought they'd seen a slight increase in use but with dramatic reductions in harm.

italodisco wrote: »

Drug addicts don't get sent to prison for possession of heroin for personal use, they get sent to prison for the crimes they commit to feed their habit.

So it's effectively decriminalised anyway then? Why not make it official policy and turn public attention to treatment.

italodisco wrote: »

There are and have been for a very long time treatment programs and supports in place here.

There is some good work being done, but it's woefully under resourced, especially in prisons.

italodisco wrote: »

There's no point telling me otherwise, living in North inner city and having first hand experience with the effects that drug have on a family is enough for me to make my decision.

Not quite sure what that is - you either want it criminalised at which point people would be imprisoned for simple possession. You want it decriminalised which it already effectively is or some third ground I can't work out. Interested what that third way is.

italodisco wrote: »

Legalising weed and ecstasy is a different matter, I'd fully support that more so for harm reduction / quality control. They don't don't take over a person's life to the extent heroin does, whereas legalising heroin just makes it easier to get and makes it easier for people to become addicts. Why the hell would you want to legalise a drug so addictive

It's derailing the thread a bit as it's NOT talking about legalisation but decriminalisation. However you'd legalise Heroin to avoid the huge issues around addiction. Heroin addicts are largely harmless on Heroin. It's the getting it which causes huge amounts of theft and the illegal supply that causes a huge amount of gangland crime.

People get addicted to all sorts of things, that's their choice. Make it as safe as possible and if actual users lives are cut short then so be it frankly. It's about minimising harm to the addicts and society in general.

As I say, that's a derailment of what's being suggested in the OP's link which is decriminalisation.

A legalise drugs thread. This time it’s different.

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