Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

dav3 · 31-05-2018 11:56AM

I don't understand the thinking and the logic behind some of the no voters. Can they really be that delusional and out of touch with the people of Ireland?

More people were motivated to get out and vote against same-sex marriage than voted against abortion. I don't see the people who voted against same-sex marriage blocking legislation or protesting against same-sex marriage, even though there are more of them than oppose abortion in Ireland.

What right do the no voters think they have to fight this? The numbers aren't there. You've been fed a lie, there is no great movement against abortion in Ireland and there never will be. How detached from reality do you have to be to believe you could prevent this?

What exactly are 80+/90+ year olds going to do to stop this?

tretorn · 31-05-2018 11:56AM

The NO side wont voice much objection to anything now.

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

The GPS who dont want to participate in abortion will feel very intimidated too because they will be named and shamed on twitter. Leo is a GP and knows how horrible abortion is so he wont want to force anyone into abortion against their will by mentioning "the law of the land" n the threatening tone Harris used. Harris is now a mouthpiece for the radical activists so he will say and do what he is told.
It would be much better to give the service to the family planning clinic people, they havent sworn a hippocratic oath to do no harm and they wont see they have a duty to the person in the womb. Why go any other route when this is the simplest one especially now that the pills can be given to the women and she can have the abortion at home in her own time.

seamus · 31-05-2018 11:58AM

iguana wrote: »

I feel that if the initial appointment is quite expensive it will nullify the point of the the reflection period. Some could be at risk of a type of sunk cost fallacy, where they will feel that having already paid out €100 to get the ball rolling on the abortion, they have committed and will follow through. I know how ridiculous that sounds but that type of thinking is so often ingrained on us and in a stressful, overly emotional time where financial strain could be at the fore of a person's worries I think that insisting on a financial commitment at the outset influences the financial decision.

Interesting, but that certainly makes sense.

One could say that there should be nothing payable upfront for the initial consultation, but then the full cost is payable on the second. Then you have two problems; GPs don't want to be doing free appointments, and the cost of the second appointment may be a barrier to a woman going back.

Resolving the issue I guess only seems plausible if it's fully covered by the state. I have no personal issue with this; what's €300 to the state compared to the cost of a pregnancy?

Is there data from other countries in terms of free -v- paid-for care and how it affects the number of backstreet abortions?

robarmstrong · 31-05-2018 12:01PM

tretorn wrote: »

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

Kinda like how the 170,000 odd women that were made to feel like outcasts in their own country so they had to go have an abortion elsewhere so they wouldn't be shamed and intimidated over the last 3 decades?

31-05-2018 12:03PM

tretorn wrote: »

Thats the thinking now anyway.

You can register for maternity care and then have twelve weeks to decide whether being pregnant suits you or not.

If it doesnt then the State will cover the abortion costs in their entirety, its just so progressive.

You clearly don't know much about pregnancy if you think a woman will have 12 weeks to decide under this legislation. By that logic a woman knows she's pregnant before she has even had sex. Given that pregnancy dates from the first day of your last period, roughly two weeks before conception. Typically a woman will find out around 5 weeks but it can be 8 or 9 weeks if she has implantation bleeding and mistakes it for her period.

kunst nugget · 31-05-2018 12:04PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO side wont voice much objection to anything now.

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

A couple of hundred people celebrating in Dublin Castle intimidated a third of the electorate and made them feel like outcasts? Give over…

ELM327 · 31-05-2018 12:04PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO side wont voice much objection to anything now.

Good

tretorn wrote: »

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

The GPS who dont want to participate in abortion will feel very intimidated too because they will be named and shamed on twitter. Leo is a GP and knows how horrible abortion is so he wont want to force anyone into abortion against their will by mentioning "the law of the land" n the threatening tone Harris used. Harris is now a mouthpiece for the radical activists so he will say and do what he is told.
It would be much better to give the service to the family planning clinic people, they havent sworn a hippocratic oath to do no harm and they wont see they have a duty to the person in the womb. Why go any other route when this is the simplest one especially now that the pills can be given to the women and she can have the abortion at home in her own time.

Irish doctors don't take the Hippocratic oath

Cupcake_Crisis · 31-05-2018 12:06PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO side wont voice much objection to anything now.

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

The GPS who dont want to participate in abortion will feel very intimidated too because they will be named and shamed on twitter. Leo is a GP and knows how horrible abortion is so he wont want to force anyone into abortion against their will by mentioning "the law of the land" n the threatening tone Harris used. Harris is now a mouthpiece for the radical activists so he will say and do what he is told.
It would be much better to give the service to the family planning clinic people, they havent sworn a hippocratic oath to do no harm and they wont see they have a duty to the person in the womb. Why go any other route when this is the simplest one especially now that the pills can be given to the women and she can have the abortion at home in her own time.

Oh come off it! The “scenes” outside Dublin castle were nothing of the sort. The were celebratory and reflective of a long, hard won fight.

iguana · 31-05-2018 12:08PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

A couple of hundred people celebrating in Dublin Castle intimidated a third of the electorate and made them feel like outcasts? Give over…

Point of fact. It was only a fifth of the electorate that cared enough to go out and vote no.

NuMarvel · 31-05-2018 12:10PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO side wont voice much objection to anything now.

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

The GPS who dont want to participate in abortion will feel very intimidated too because they will be named and shamed on twitter. Leo is a GP and knows how horrible abortion is so he wont want to force anyone into abortion against their will by mentioning "the law of the land" n the threatening tone Harris used. Harris is now a mouthpiece for the radical activists so he will say and do what he is told.
It would be much better to give the service to the family planning clinic people, they havent sworn a hippocratic oath to do no harm and they wont see they have a duty to the person in the womb. Why go any other route when this is the simplest one especially now that the pills can be given to the women and she can have the abortion at home in her own time.

FYI, neither have GPs. Nobody swears the Hippocratic oath anymore.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 31-05-2018 12:17PM

I was very close to voting No but when I went behind the little screen at the polling station, I folded and voted 'yes' for free choice by those this concerns.

I should add I'm from Donegal and I'm the only person I know that voted yes.

facehugger99 · 31-05-2018 12:19PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I was very close to voting No but when I went behind the little screen at the polling station, I folded and voted 'yes' for free choice by those this concerns.

I should add I'm from Donegal and I'm the only person I know that voted yes.

Next time you should vote first before folding the ballot paper.

ohnonotgmail · 31-05-2018 12:21PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO side wont voice much objection to anything now.

The scenes at Dublin Castle appalled and intimidated them and they feel like outcasts in their own country.

The GPS who dont want to participate in abortion will feel very intimidated too because they will be named and shamed on twitter. Leo is a GP and knows how horrible abortion is so he wont want to force anyone into abortion against their will by mentioning "the law of the land" n the threatening tone Harris used. Harris is now a mouthpiece for the radical activists so he will say and do what he is told.
It would be much better to give the service to the family planning clinic people, they havent sworn a hippocratic oath to do no harm and they wont see they have a duty to the person in the womb. Why go any other route when this is the simplest one especially now that the pills can be given to the women and she can have the abortion at home in her own time.

Not this nonsense again.

Loafing Oaf · 31-05-2018 12:33PM

dav3 wrote: »

What right do the no voters think they have to fight this? The numbers aren't there. You've been fed a lie, there is no great movement against abortion in Ireland and there never will be. How detached from reality do you have to be to believe you could prevent this?

What exactly are 80+/90+ year olds going to do to stop this?

I'm convinced most pro-lifers know this deep down and the defiant statements about carrying on the fight are just going through the motions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-anti-abortion-movement-has-not-given-up-and-will-not-disappear-1.3510365

I've cited this Breda O'Brien article before to illustrate this. If she genuinely believed the "Anti-abortion movement has not given up and will not disappear," would the article not have included even one sentence along the lines of "The first thing pro-life people need to do now is x or y."?

Captain Obvious · 31-05-2018 12:42PM

Neyite wrote: »

Ever watch Aliens 3 where Ripley is infected with the alien parasite inside? That. Imagine that happening to you and I'd say you'd be freaking out at being told you've to let it gestate inside you until it's ready to force itself out of an orifice in 9 months time. I would.

That is such a ridiculous comparison it has to be a joke right? That Mulligan one wouldn't come out with such tripe. Well, maybe she would but still.

It's odd to me that people are acting like the debate is over and everything is sorted. Both sides still have a lot to fight for and referring to a fetus as a parasite or to an abortion as murder is the kind of stuff that will push everyone further apart.

Cupcake_Crisis · 31-05-2018 12:43PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I'm convinced most pro-lifers know this deep down and the defiant statements about carrying on the fight are just going through the motions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-anti-abortion-movement-has-not-given-up-and-will-not-disappear-1.3510365

I've cited this Breda O'Brien article before to illustrate this. If she genuinely believed the "Anti-abortion movement has not given up and will not disappear," would the article not have included even one sentence along the lines of "The first thing pro-life people need to do now is x or y."?

A lot of them, bar John Mcguirk on Twitter, seem to have gone completely silent. I haven’t heard a whisper from Maria Steen since Friday and she was extremely vocal throughout the whole campaign.

ohnonotgmail · 31-05-2018 12:44PM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

A lot of them, bar John Mcguirk on Twitter, seem to have gone completely silent. I haven’t heard a whisper from Maria Steen since Friday and she was extremely vocal throughout the whole campaign.

David Quinn wont shut about it on twitter.

Cupcake_Crisis · 31-05-2018 12:46PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

David Quinn wont shut about it on twitter.

I did see Declan Ganely(?) getting absolutely roasted on the Twitter machine when he said he’d die before his taxes would pay for it. People are still getting material out of it a week later

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 31-05-2018 12:48PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I was very close to voting No but when I went behind the little screen at the polling station, I folded and voted 'yes' for free choice by those this concerns.

I should add I'm from Donegal and I'm the only person I know that voted yes.

Thank you

ohnonotgmail · 31-05-2018 12:50PM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

I did see Declan Ganely(?) getting absolutely roasted on the Twitter machine when he said he’d die before his taxes would pay for it. People are still getting material out of it a week later

they are the gift that keeps giving.

tretorn · 31-05-2018 12:52PM

The NO people felt the tiny human being mattered but now they have been educated by their betters to know its worth less than a chicken. People wont eat chicken because of the way its killed but they dont care about abortion.

It wasnt the hundreds of people screaming with excitement that sickened people opposed to abortion, it was our leaders joining in.
Speaking for myself, I dont care what you do with your young now, i dont care how much the twelve week limit is abused, I dont care how pills are handed out, i dont care how women will be used even more by men for a quick shag, ye wanted abortion so ye are welcome to it.

robarmstrong · 31-05-2018 12:53PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO people felt the tiny human being mattered but now they have been educated by their betters to know its worth less than a chicken. People wont eat chicken because of the way its killed but they dont care about abortion.

It wasnt the hundreds of people screaming with excitement that sickened people opposed to abortion, it was our leaders joining in.
Speaking for myself, I dont care what you do with your young now, i dont care how much the twelve week limit is abused, I dont care how pills are handed out, i dont care how women will be used even more by men for a quick shag, ye wanted abortion so ye are welcome to it.

Are you gonna reply to anyone or are you just gonna keep dropping soundbites in?

Cupcake_Crisis · 31-05-2018 12:57PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO people felt the tiny human being mattered but now they have been educated by their betters to know its worth less than a chicken. People wont eat chicken because of the way its killed but they dont care about abortion.

It wasnt the hundreds of people screaming with excitement that sickened people opposed to abortion, it was our leaders joining in.
Speaking for myself, I dont care what you do with your young now, i dont care how much the twelve week limit is abused, I dont care how pills are handed out, i dont care how women will be used even more by men for a quick shag, ye wanted abortion so ye are welcome to it.

Ah will ye stop with your hysterics. Nothing will change in your little world because the 8th was repealed. You don’t agree with abortion and you’re still entitled to that opinion. The only difference now is that people who’s opinion is that women should have the right of choice have the same rights as you. I’m sorry if that upsets you, but it is what is.

Hitman3000 · 31-05-2018 12:58PM

tretorn wrote:

The NO people felt the tiny human being mattered but now they have been educated by their betters to know its worth less than a chicken. People wont eat chicken because of the way its killed but they dont care about abortion.

Your logic amuses me. I have asked this question of several no voters both on Boards and in the real world. Do you think every pregnant woman is suddenly going to decide to have an abortion when legislation is passed? It's not a really easy choice to have to make but you and others equate it to well to use your analogy 'chicken'.

tretorn · 31-05-2018 01:03PM

Its not about my rights, it never was, its about the rights of the one with most to lose.
As I said, carry on now in the utopia you have created, its your body, your choice, your child so do what you like.
The people have spoken.

seamus · 31-05-2018 01:04PM

tretorn wrote: »

Its not about my rights, it never was, its about the rights of the one with most to lose.

Correct. And the one with the most to lose is the pregnant woman. I'm glad we've cleared that up.

WillContribute · 31-05-2018 01:13PM

tretorn wrote: »

Abortions are now being considered as part of maternity care and the Government plans to cover the full cost.
Harris has never looked so happy and Leo cant believe how much the child benefit will go down. They havent stopped beaming since Saturday.
We can now convince ourselves abortions are miscarriages and its all great.

It's a lot more than child benefit Leo and Harris can beam about.

Assuming we go to half the rate in the UK, say 1 in 10 here. That's a min of 4,000 additional abortions a year.

4,000 less deliveries each year in maternity hospitals. (Maternity overcrowding anyone?) Complicated births,
nearly a thing of the past.

56,000 less in the school system over the 14 years of school. => 2,000 less teachers needed & 100 less schools needed. (School places pressure anyone?)

4,000 less bedrooms. => 1,500 -2,000 less apartments needed each year. (Housing crisis?)

These may not be the drivers, but the calculations no doubt have been done.

Loafing Oaf · 31-05-2018 01:19PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

David Quinn wont shut about it on twitter.

In fairness, talk from Quinn and McGuirk about a 30 or 40 year struggle to reverse the referendum result at least shows some awareness of the magnitude of the task facing pro-lifers.

ELM327 · 31-05-2018 01:21PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

In fairness, talk from Quinn and McGuirk about a 30 or 40 year struggle to reverse the referendum result at least shows some awareness of the magnitude of the task facing pro-lifers.

IN 30 years they will be viewed how segregationists in the US were viewed 30 years after segregation ended. Remember segregation ended in the 60's and in the 90's a pro segregationist would have been laughed out of town.

NuMarvel · 31-05-2018 01:21PM

tretorn wrote: »

The NO people felt...

Nobody can say anything with any degree of certainty about No voters as a group, other than they voted No.

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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