Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

Blue this time.

DubInMeath wrote: »

You need to apologise to everyone on the thread that you insulted with your pimple remark otherwise get off your high horse.

Why because it is too close to the bone of what an inconvenience it is for some women?



If your going to make generalised statements about who voted yes and how Ireland will feel in 10+ years post facts about how the rest of Europe feels the same now given the majority of the countries that make up Europe have had legal abortion for over ten years, as studies show the majority of women do not regret having an abortion


it is the majority now is it?
I thought it was none a few posts back?

.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Would ya come off it.

A foetus isn't a full human life form either, especially at 12 weeks or under. If it were, it would be able to survive on it's own.

I know my point is ridiculous. I made it specifically to highlight how ridiculous your own "only a few months between abortion and murder" argument is.

As for your other point, we were told that the marriage equality yes vote was going to lead to people marrying animals and so on,which I've yet to see anyone campaign for. That kind of vauge slippery slope scaremongering isn't going to wash anymore.

DubInMeath wrote: »

Well as a bloke I can't answer for women, but it shows you have an issue with women, but hey your earlier posts already demonstrated that.



Don't think anyone said that no one regrets having an abortion, but I'm sure you can link to the post you mention.

You said it yourself on this page!

So as a deflection tactic you now claim I have an issue with women

So what about a woman who voted no does she have an issue with women too?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You said it yourself on this page!

So as a deflection tactic you now claim I have an issue with women

So what about a woman who voted no does she have an issue with women too?

You literally said a few posts ago "some women are less sensible than others" in an attempt to imply these less sensible women would have abortions on a whim. It's hard to highlight thanks to your bastardisation of the quote feature, but it's there for anyone to see.

Whatever about those who voted no in general, it's clear that you personally have an issue with women.

Overheal wrote: »

I'm going to do a transcript of this. Stand. By. World.

Kay Burley (KB), Sky News
Sarah Louise Mulligan (SLM), CEO of IrishWhoLovePresidentTrump.com
Colm O'Gorman (CG), Executive Director of Amnesty International Ireland

KB: (introduces both persons by full name and organization). Ladies first - make your case.

SLM: Ahm, well my name is Sarah Louise Mulligan, I'm an Irish citizen I'm very proud to be, ahm, first of all we must realize that if abortion is legalized in Ireland, ahm, it's gonna have detrimental effects on Irish women? [sic] 97% of babies who are aborted, has been proven [sic] insassistics [sic] as discussed on RTE - ahm, I think this will be detrimental if it's brought into my country, ah our country is extremely conservative? We're known to be a country of baby lovers not baby killers.

KB: Extremely conservative?

SLM: Yeah! We are extremely conservative

KB: Again, first country i-in in the world to accept gay marriage?

SLM: Yes!

KB: Accept divorce even though you're a Catholic country?

SLM: Yeah, so I actually voted for gay marriage myself, so you know..

KB: Not that conservative, then?

SLM: .... ahh well, I I - do think Ireland - is still very traditional and very conservative and I do believe the Vote No will win, because there's obviously still a lot of, religious people here who are you know, elderly people who will..

KB: Okay... is it a matter of religion, Colm?

CG: No, not at all it's a human rights issue but I mean critically what we need to acknowledge is that abortion bans like the 8th amendment don't stop abortions. As we're standing here today another 9 or 10 Irish women and girls are getting on Ryanair flights to England to access, abortion care in another country - in your country. Another 3 to 5 are importing abortion pills and using them at home without medical supervision, illegally, facing a possible 14 yr prison sentence if they are prosecuted for doing so; so, the 8th amendment doesn't stop abortions, all it does is it forces women and girls in having less safe abortions. So, I mean well over 170,000 Irish women and girls have traveled to England and Wales over the last number of decades to access abortion care there, and whether a woman is- whether a woman is pregnant as result of rape or incest - whether a child is pregnant - whether a pregnancy is a risk to her health, whether the pregnancy has a diagnosis of a fatal fetal abnormality: under Irish law, that woman can not terminate that pregnancy and if she does -

KB: But in these hard cases -

CG: - She and the doctor who've done so have committed a serious -

KB: 14 years

CG: - criminal offense.

KB: We know, but do these hard cases justify relaxing the law for everyone?

CG: Well I mean, first of all, this notion of 'hard cases' has been pulled in by the other side in this debate as if somehow - A-ahm, abortion isn't always a difficult decision for a woman to make. A woman who chooses to end her pregnancy has always got a reason for doing so! The idea that she should have to be dragged through some validation process to justify her decision, the idea that women have to experience appalling trauma and suffering in order to -t-to be able to decide whether or not they should continue with a pregnancy - that is a crisis pregnancy for them and their families for whatever reasons - is obscene! That's why this is a human rights issue.

SLM: Okay, my background is in psychology and, ye know, women are 6 times more likely to commit suicide. I actually have friends in -

KB: - what what, okay: generally, you mean?

SLM: Sorry?

KB: Generally, you mean?

SLM: Yes they are: 6 more times likely to commit suicide.

KB: Okay. - what does that have to do with, being pregnant?

SLM: ..Well I mean it's the trauma of having an abortion that's why I don't want to see abortion being legalized here.

CG: Actually there is a link, A-ahm, between pregnancy and suicide and mental health, and the maternal -

SLM: I'm glad you agree with me there!

CG: - The maternal - I do indeed

SLM: Thank you

CG: - the maternal death study here in Ireland found that suicide is the most significant cause of death of women pre-natally or post-natally in ireland

SLM:

CG: So suicide, mental health, impacts negativehamellatalhealthiccamps [sic] [negative mental health outcomes?] are absolutely linked to pregnancy here in Ireland -

KB: But that amendment was added to the constitution wasn't it, so that if women are likely to commit suicide, they can then legally have an abortion?

CG: Yeah. And and there's a process they have to go through where they may have to go before 7 different groups of professionals, to a series of appeal panels, if they want to be able to access a legal abortion onto those grounds here, in Ireland. And the No Side to this campaign :rolleyes: violently resisted the idea that abortion should be available to a woman whose life was at risk because of suicide. And just recently in our parliamentary process, where this referendum a-a-ahm, was recommended, you had one of the leading politicians on one of the leading lights [sic] of the No campaign trying to further restrict the law, so that women whose lives are at risk because of suicide would no longer be able to access a legal termination in Ireland - thats the harsh, cruel thinking behind the No campaign.

SLM: Okay, the harsh cruel thinking behind the No campaign is, that, 97% of babies in the UK who are healthy are actually aborted. We don't want to -

CG: But - that's nonsense

SLM: We - we, well - that's the truth

KB: What are you basing that on?

CG: That's nonsense. You're saying only 3% of pregnancies in the UK end in a live birth??

SLM: ..at the end of the day, we do not want a liveral [sic] regime of abortion -

KB: And where do these figures come from?

SLM: Well Mary Butler was on RTE and and she actually stated that, so -

CG: it's not true - I mean it's patently obvious that 97% of pregnancies in the UK do not end in abortion; that's just nonsense.

SLM: Okay if we look at ahm women hurt? [sic] Like, this was a campaign and an agency settle [??] for women who are have had their lives destroyed because they've had abortion. You know, this is set up to help women go through a whole psychological process of killing their child -

CG: :rolleyes:

SLM: you know what I mean - it has devastating impact on a women's well being and they deeply regret - I have never ever met a woman who has regretted having a child but she has regrets having an abortion. We do not want this - Hitler regime

CG:

SLM: of abortion and it's a money-making - ahm, thing, as well -

KB: Strong words, "Hitler Regime."

CG: So - so first of all 3% of women who terminate their pregnancies regret their decision. And we don't generally outlaw and make illegal - for everybody - any decision on the basis that somebody might regret it. And where women do regret that decision they need, and are entitled to, and should get every possible support to help them address it but the overwhelming

SLM:

CG: - the overwhelming majority of women who choose to end a pregnancy describe feelings of relief and -

SLM: No!

CG: And well being following the

SLM: Joe, no no, heh ehh :rolleyes: no

CG: termination of pregnancy and that's in every single meta-analysis that's been done.

SLM: no :rolleyes:

CG: Abortion regret - we all we all regret decisions that we make and choosing to end the pregnancy is a significant decision. The problem that we have here in Ireland is if a woman chooses no to continue with the pregnancy - she doesn't have time to think about and reflect and discuss that decision with her doctor.

SLM: [indescribable series of facial expressions]



CG: She doesn't even necessarily have time to discuss it with the people she loves and knows in her life because of the shame and the stigma that's attached to the issue; instead she has to eh she has to find eh eh eh planes tickets she has to navigate childcare she has to navigate the access to the UK health system in order to have a termination and that's completely unjust!

SLM: Okay, Call Ahm, I have pursennel friends that have had abortions. Now, because I have a background in psychology, they speak to me, and they are suicidal at this moment in time because they've had abortions if they could turn back time they wouldn't have had an abortion. So everything you're saying there is not true. [????????]

CG: Well we dont - we dont see, we don't outlaw eh decision making for a whole group of the population because a small minority of people might end up regretting a decision.

SLM: It's not a small minority! I'm sorry

CG: And I'm not - hang on now - I'm not minimizing the impact of that on those individual women what I'm saying is that is they deserve every possible support - but 97% of women the overwhelming majority of people who have abortions expressed feelings of relief and believe that the decision was right for them.

SLM: Woman shouldn't

CG: This is about - this is about - this is

SLM: have to have an abortion!

CG: I agree, we should avoid

SLM: They shouldn't have to!

CG: We should avoid crisis pregnancies!

SLM: Yeah exactly!

CG: Which is why part of the package of -

SLM: but Leo Leo Varadkar -

CG: Which is why part of the package of solutions that are being put in by government here are better sex education -

SLM: Lee Leo Varadkar

CG: Access to contraception,

SLM: Doesn't believe

CG: The leading lights of the No campaign have resisted for decades in this country and still are!

SLM: Leo Varadkar doesn't believe, that, a woman and a child are two patients. He just believes

CG: No, he didn't say that.

SLM: Yes he did say it.

CG: He didn't though.

SLM: He did.

CG: No, no.

SLM: He says he just looks at the woman and he ignores the unborn child inside -

CG: No. What he - what he - what he said was, and I don't often find myself defending our Prime Minister, or our leaders of our political parties

SLM: Yeah, right!

CG: But he doesn't believe that from the point of conception the unborn are entitled to the same rights, and have the same value and that's an awful phrase to have to use

SLM: Oh it is! Yes exactly!

CG: the same value as his

SLM: It's extremely awful!

CG: As his born sister! The idea that a-a-a-a-a an embryo from the moment of conception has equal rights and equal value as a born woman has caused catastophic harm

SLM: Okay! Okay. You advocate

CG: to thousands of women in this country

SLM: You advocate for Human rights.

CG: Yeah.

SLM: But you ignore the human right of an unborn -

CG: No.

SLM: Child.

CG: No.

SLM: Yes you do!

CG: No I don't.

SLM: You do!

CG: No I don't.

SLM: ... you want to murder an unborn child

CG: Oh, dear heavens, well I mean if the debate,

SLM: that is so innocent it has never sinned in its life

CG: well if the debate

SLM: And you want it

CG: If the debate

SLM: - a healthy child

CG: Lucy, if the debate is going to descend to references

SLM: To be bo- Actually my name is Sarah Louise.

CG: Sorry, Sarah Louise, I have never met you before so I don't know you.

SLM: I did quite say hello to ye.

CG: If the debate is going to descend to references to Hitler, a-aa-a-and to murder

SLM: Oh it's a Hitler regime! Definitely.

CG: I think we're finished.

KB: Still ha - she still has her point of view,

CG: She does, but I think references

KB: and she is perfectly entitled to her views,

CG: she is perfectly entitled to her views, but there are

KB: Colm, just because she's using phraseology you don't appreciate or accept

CG: but there are

KB: does not mean that she's not entitled to use it.

CG: But there are women out there watching this show, who have gone through very difficult decisions in order to their pregnancies; there are women who have ended much wanted pregnancies because of a diagnoses of fatal fetal abnormality, and I'm sorry but I won't stand by

SLM: sometimes

CG: I wont

SLM: the doctors

CG: I wont

SLM: get it wrong!

CG: I wont stand by and seeing thos- see those women being described as murderers.

SLM: So you

CG: I don't

SLM: think all Down Syndrome children should be murdered? [???????????]

CG: I don't think that's acceptable language, I think it's obscene language, and I think it needs to be called out.

KB: Sarah just made a point -

SLM: Ohhhh my gawd

KB: Sarah just make your point again, about Down Syndrome?

SLM: Down Syndrome children! Do you know that in the UK 90% of Down Syndrome children are aborted?

CG: No.

SLM: Yes!

CG: No.

SLM: Yes they are, Colm!

CG: So, so in the UK - you're very light on facts in this,

SLM: mmmhhhmhhmhmh - yeah right.

CG: in the UK, 90% of pregnancies where there is a final diagnosis of Down Syndrome are indeed terminated, right?

SLM: Mmmhm~!

CG: My point would be, that you want a regime that forces Irish women and girls to travel to the UK whose laws

SLM: Nobody's forcing women to travel

CG: Whose laws

SLM: to the UK

CG: you seem to-

KB: They have no choice but to travel to the UK.

CG: be between horrendous [?] you want to retain a legal order in Ireland that does not allow us to put in place our legal regime here - and for the avoidance of any doubt for viewers, abortion on the basis of disability is expressly prohibited under the laws

SLM: in Portugal,

CG: In the laws that the government are proposing.

SLM: In Portugal, abortion is used as a form of contraception!

CG: Oh dear God

SLM: Yes!

KB: But we're not- we're not in... we're not...

SLM: I know but we have to go by these statistics!

KB: ... fascinating debate, I'm terribly sorry but we have to leave it there.

SLM: That's okay.

KB: Thank you both very much indeed for joining us on Sky News Sunrise this morning [...]

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought mods are neutral?

Not at all. Never been a policy on this site. And most certainly at any rate not in forums we don't moderate in.

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Can you sit through it long enough to do that? Or can you do that thing I have failed spectacularly to do, and managed to extract subtitles directly? I have seen two websites that explain how to do it, and it never works for me.

I needed the exercise. Good typing flex, given I've gone stupid and agreed to go back for my Masters.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Because it is a clear life and death issue?

So are deaths from alcohol? reminder, I'm only trying to discern your own logic against why one social issue should be in the constitution and not the other, having made the remark that social issues should be legislated in the constitution.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I didn't realise that I thought you were like refs.

Obviously more facilitators /ocassional commentors.

It might be a good idea to get diametrically apposed mods to mod a thread in the interests of fairness in that case?

Just an idea.

Maybe that is not possible in all cases giving nature of boards.ie as a like-minded company.

How many years of this website did you miss exactly?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I noticed none of the Yes posters had a of a baby on it not one...

It was all MY, MY, MY muscular female arms and saint like pictures of Savita.

Baby was never mentioned on the yes posters....

MY was never mentioned on the no....

You were saying?

Overheal wrote: »

So are deaths from alcohol? reminder, I'm only trying to discern the poster's logic against why one social issue should be in the constitution and not the other, having made the remark that social issues should be legislated in the constitution.

There are unplanned pregnancies from alcohol and there will be a lot of abortions as a result of alcohol (thanks to 2/3s of the country so I suppose it is a relevant point.

There is a clear death of a human life when it comes to abortion.
I thought it was right that it had that protection.
Now the legislators can have thier way and decide on lowering the number of weeks over time if they wish.



The world is mixed up on what is legal and illegal basically because of money.
Cigarettes make too much money and out weigh the health consequences cost wise which is why they remain legal.

Those types of issues like cigarettes are constantly changing, smoking ban, drink driving laws so it would not be convenient to put those less important items it the Constitution.

The constitution should reflect the culture of the state where practicable.

Unfortunately Ireland has a strange love affair with excessive drinking.
So unfortunately your suggestion is never going to happen in my lifetime.

If you could put in just the two will do (the doctors would love that, but the breweries would never allow it)

Too much money to made.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There are unplanned from alcohol and there will be a lot of abortions as a result of alcohol (thanks to 2/3s of the country so I suppose it is a relevant point.

There is a clear death of a human life when it comes to abortion.
I thought it was right that it had that protection.

It still has protection, an embryo just doesn't have the same equal status as a fully grown woman - its mother - under the law any longer.