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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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Comments

  • #4592
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,103 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Do you think the HSE will magically transform into a utopian healthcare system now that the 8th is gone, or do you think mistakes might still happen? Or, never mind mistakes, do you think the actual level of healthcare will magically rise to NHS standards?
    I think the muddled waters brought about by the 8th have been cleaned.
    Savita wouldnt have been told "this is a catholic country" now.



    As do 66% of the electorate :)


  • #4593
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Do you think the HSE will magically transform into a utopian healthcare system now that the 8th is gone, or do you think mistakes might still happen? Or, never mind mistakes, do you think the actual level of healthcare will magically rise to NHS standards?

    So we should still export to the UK because of a “what if”?


  • #4594
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Do you think the HSE will magically transform into a utopian healthcare system now that the 8th is gone, or do you think mistakes might still happen? Or, never mind mistakes, do you think the actual level of healthcare will magically rise to NHS standards?


    It is funny how some on the No side were trying to tell us that we had world class maternity care in this country because of the 8th and now suddenly it is a shambles.


  • #4595
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It is funny how some on the No side were trying to tell us that we had world class maternity care in this country because of the 8th and now suddenly it is a shambles.

    I noticed that too. This time last week we had a world class healthcare system, now it’s suddenly in a jock. I wonder why...


  • #4596
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It is funny how some on the No side were trying to tell us that we had world class maternity care in this country because of the 8th and now suddenly it is a shambles.

    Having seen my wife give birth this year and being with her for every appointment, I can say, from what I saw it was world class. However, luckily everything went very well and we weren't affected by the 8th. The tying of peoples hands by the 8th would make the experience drop to the bottom of the pile.


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  • #4597
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Having seen my wife give birth this year and being with her for every appointment, I can say, from what I saw it was world class. However, luckily everything went very well and we weren't affected by the 8th. The tying of peoples hands by the 8th would make the experience drop to the bottom of the pile.

    private or public system?


  • #4598
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ....... wrote: »
    People like to have nice wedding photos in churches and the Catholic Church are by far the biggest provider of solemnisers who will do weddings on Saturdays.

    If the HSE (a) relaxed up the rules about where you can hold a civil ceremony and (b) provided registrars at weekends - then people would flock to them.

    And baptism is dictated by people wanting to get kids into local schools - and communions are peer pressure within schools.

    It is slowly changing.

    Believe that they (HSE) have relaxed the rules to an extent, as to where people can get married as its no longer required to have the ceremony in the registry office and this was the case when I got married just about five years ago and were quite happy that we were able to get have our ceremony at the place of our choice.

    On another thread a poster is stating that anyone who voted yes should not be sending their children to a Catholic school and that there should be Catholic only schools in the control of the church.
    I've personally no problem with the idea of faith only schools as long these schools and any other private schools be they be faith based or not don't receive any government funding.


  • #4599
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Cupcake_Crisis wrote:
    I noticed that too. This time last week we had a world class healthcare system, now it’s suddenly in a jock. I wonder why...


    We are not a hive mind.


  • #4600
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    pleas advice wrote: »
    We are not a hive mind.

    But you are on Facebook. Or televized debates where it was literally said to death.


  • #4601
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    eviltwin wrote: »
    private or public system?

    Private and the only benefit I could see was additional scans. My wife and I did talk about it being a lot of money for very little. I suppose there was the extra piece of mind. At delivery time it appears that everyone is treated the same. Delivered by a midwife and an intern and it wasn't exactly a straight forward delivery as he had turned. The consultant arrived a couple of minutes after the main event. All credit to the midwife and the intern. They were amazing.

    I accept that our experience was just one of many and Savita is proof that many are extremely different to ours.


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  • #4602
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    So we should still export to the UK because of a “what if”?

    Where did I say that? Although there has been a few recommendations on these threads for NHS maternity care over HSE, and I see no reason for that to change


  • #4603
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Where did I say that? Although there has been a few recommendations on these threads for NHS maternity care over HSE, and I see no reason for that to change

    Voting no said that.


  • #4604
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Private and the only benefit I could see was additional scans. My wife and I did talk about it being a lot of money for very little. I suppose there was the extra piece of mind. At delivery time it appears that everyone is treated the same. Delivered by a midwife and an intern and it wasn't exactly a straight forward delivery as he had turned. The consultant arrived a couple of minutes after the main event. All credit to the midwife and the intern. They were amazing.

    It does make a difference. I was public and there was nothing world class about the care I received.


  • #4605
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It does make a difference. I was public and there was nothing world class about the care I received.

    I added a line to my previous post stating that we were just one experience and everyone is different.


  • #4606
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It is funny how some on the No side were trying to tell us that we had world class maternity care in this country because of the 8th and now suddenly it is a shambles.

    Apparently the NHS was a shambles before last Friday and automatically wanted to abort all babies at the first sign of trouble.

    If your living over there you might have an opinion one way or another on the quality of the NHS especially if your on one side of the privatisation fence or another, but they did help take care of the women of this country when we wouldn't because of the 8th.


  • #4607
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    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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  • #4608
    .......
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  • #4609
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    It is funny how some on the No side were trying to tell us that we had world class maternity care in this country because of the 8th and now suddenly it is a shambles.
    I was actually asking these questions last week, and last month, got no answer then either


  • #4610
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Don't want them to get sunburn or rained on. It may end up in claims! :pac:


  • #4611
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,103 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    That's the problem with using statistics as "baby didnt die" as metrics of a maternity system.


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  • #4612
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #4613
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ....... wrote: »
    They did relax them up a bit and now allow people to get married in Approved Venues - but there are still quite a lot of silly rules in place (like having to have a room with a covered roof for the registrar - so no one can organise an outdoor wedding). But the 9-5 monday to friday is the biggest hurdle IMO.

    Im not sure what voting Yes has to do with being a Catholic or what school you send your child to.

    The 9 to 5 applies to church weddings too I'd say but yeah no Saturday was a bit of a pain, but to get the same for a church wedding you might have to book well in advance.

    In relation to the school poster if you voted yes you're not a real Catholic so your kids should be going to their schools.
    The same poster is also saying that the Catholic church won't baptize babies where the parents are not already Catholic and anyone who says different is wrong. Their sort of ignoring history there and cannon law.


  • #4614
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That's the problem with using statistics as "baby didnt die" as metrics of a maternity system.

    Is that the metric that is used?


  • #4615
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »
    Is that the metric that is used?
    No, but the fact that we have a low maternal death rate was constantly touted by the pro-life team as evidence that women were safer in Ireland than anywhere else.

    Of course, "didn't die" is the lowest bar a health system needs to vault. It's great that we're really good at that one, but there are many other metrics that are used to determine if a health system is good.


  • #4616
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Having seen whats available on the continent, no. No we do not.


  • #4617
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Reesy wrote: »
    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/05/ireland-an-obituary
    How many single 'yes' voters want to get married in a church / have future future kids be baptised & have first communions? Isn't this the height of hypocrisy?

    Not me. I’m not sure I’ll even get married but if I do it’ll be a civil ceremony. Otherwise, I doubt I’d even make it past the pre-marriage course, being lectured to by a priest on the sanctity of marriage bla bla bla doesn’t really float my boat. I’m a Catholic, as in, I’m baptised, made my Communion and Confirmation but I’ve cut all ties with my religion as I’ve gotten older. I stood as Godparent to my niece a year ago so maybe that’s hypocritical of me, but it meant a lot to my sister so I did it for her. When I have kids and Communion comes around, we’ll be going on a family trip to Disney Land.
    I would call myself an atheist but I’m not comfortable with absolutes. But I have no faith.


  • #4618
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,103 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mavis Warm Stranger wrote: »
    Is that the metric that is used?
    It is what the no side were espousing, yes.
    And before you say you were a no voter and you didnt.... all the public anti choice groups, LoveBoat, Savethe8th, Iona etc were using that as the metric.


  • #4619
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It didn't take her death to galvanise action. People have been fighting the 8th amendment since before it was added to the constitution and only stopped on Friday night. As for a mass movement, the various pro-choice groups had started to join together in June/July 2012, several months before her death. Youth Defence and the Life Institute had co ran a series of disturbing adverts, filled with statistical lies and stolen images in June 2012. They clearly spent an absolute fortune on the "abortion tears her life apart" campaign but achieved nothing other than galvanising their opposition who at the time had almost no political support. The thread on it in The Ladies Lounge even includes a message one poster got from Simon Harris where he pontificates against even legislating for X because it goes against his conscience.

    When the news broke of Savita's death there was already an organised movement against the 8th. Admittedly at the time a lot of the focus was on legislating for X because at that point successive governments had failed in their duty for 20 years, ignoring the outcome of the two referendums they lost in '92 and '02 that they had run in order an attempt to avoid doing so. But removal of the 8th amendment was always a goal being worked towards even though it felt like a pipedream to even get a referendum on it's removal. I think we used to see the 8th as something that was likely to be removed slowly and in tiny increments. That any referendum we would get would be a slight loosening of it's power. And if we won that we'd have to fight on for the next small step against it. Savita's death increased the sense of urgency and made people realise that a slow step-by-step move to choice just wasn't good enough because of how thoroughly the 8th diminished the rights and safety of a pregnant woman.


  • #4620
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    The thread from summer 2012.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056676727


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  • #4621
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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