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Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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Comments

  • #3902
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I would never have had an abortion anyway.

    That's your choice.

    The 8th did not allow women to have that choice.


  • #3903
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I would never have had an abortion anyway. They don't speak for me and I do not feel in any way indebted or grateful!

    The 8th wasn't just about abortion. I'll never have one either.
    But I appreciate the new opportunity I now have to consent and withhold consent to procedures I may or may not want done to my body while pregnant.
    It effects maternity care for everyone.


  • #3904
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    No more than you'd see in the Atheist threads in here, which as an Atheist yourself I'm sure you've read.

    Still waiting on scientific evidence of your claim that the rules to access abortion in the UK are constantly bypassed, as I mentioned last night the link you provided last night has been proved to be an inacurate pro life propaganda piece.

    ok fine. would you accept data from this group?

    http://www.reproductivereview.org/index.php/site/about/17/
    Reproductive Review is an update of news and comment on abortion issues. It is produced as an educational service by British Pregnancy Advisory Service (bpas). Reproductive Review is the re-branded version of Abortion Review: see below for an editorial explaining why we are expanding our focus.
    British Pregnancy Advisory Service (bpas) supports reproductive choice and health by advocating and providing high quality, affordable services to prevent or end unwanted pregnancies with contraception or by abortion. BPAS also offers a range of other reproductive health services, including pregnancy testing, STI testing, and advice for erectile dysfunction. To find out more, please visit the bpas website: www.bpas.org

    So are you ok with data from this organisation?


  • #3905
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I would never have had an abortion anyway

    Great! So absolutely nothing will change for you whatsoever!


  • #3906
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    No mainstream political party would tough this with a bargepole for 34 of those years.

    Labour were against the 8th in 1983 and ever since.

    Labour were also the driving force behind the SSM amendment.

    This may be a lesson for people inclined to think that this vote will mean anything come General Election time.


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  • #3907
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Agree. No matter what side of the fence you're on, the partying was a bit crass and vulgar in my opinion. I am a female of child bearing age and I voted No. While I was disappointed in the result, that's to be accepted now as we live in a democracy, but I really thought the after partying was over the top. It's not like after the marriage referendum where we had genuine cause for celebration - there are no winners when it comes to abortion.

    I don't follow the logic here.

    The anti-SSM arguments pushed the ideas of destruction of the family unit, the abuse of children under SS adoptions... would it have been fair to characterize the celebrations of the marriage referendum as being celebrations of child abuse and the destruction of family? Or are you comfortable with that celebration because you didn't accept those lies?

    Women who have carried the shame of being considered criminals in their homeland were told on Saturday by their fellow citizens, "No, you are not and never were a criminal. You have no need to be ashamed. We trust you."

    That is what was celebrated. There's nothing crass about it.


  • #3908
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    ok fine. would you accept data from this group?

    http://www.reproductivereview.org/index.php/site/about/17/



    So are you ok with data from this organisation?


    so what data are you referring to? it would have been helpful to post a link directly to the data.


  • #3909
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the iona institute is not a person. now what about the gloating? are we not allowed that we have thrown off one more shackle of the catholic church and it's proxies?

    Except this wasn't a yes no win along religious divides. Many who were religious voted yes. I heard many at mass this weekend say they voted yes. I also know people who are very anti religious vote no. I know it makes some on here feel extra special as they are giving the religious a bloody nose unfortunately for those people in this instance not 2 much


  • #3910
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    martingriff wrote: »
    Step back a bit there I was only stating what was reported by RYE no need for the attack.

    I'm not attacking anyone.

    I merely asked the question.

    You posted it, I can only take from that that you agreed with the position (you did not signify that you didn't).


  • #3911
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    martingriff wrote: »
    Except this wasn't a yes no win along religious divides. Many who were religious voted yes. I heard many at mass this weekend say they voted yes. I also know people who are very anti religious vote no. I know it makes some on here feel extra special as they are giving the religious a bloody nose unfortunately for those people in this instance not 2 much


    Who campaigned to have the 8th added to the constitution? I'll give you a clue, it was the catholic church. So removing the 8th is throwing off another shackle of the catholic church.


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  • #3912
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Re no-one coming up with proposals for 35 years.

    No mainstream political party would tough this with a bargepole for 34 of those years.

    Its only in the last year that proposals have come forward that people can vote on.

    So maybe those political parties who were quite happy to see the status quo remain for 34 years and who are now out celebrating its repeal deserve significant criticism?

    They all towed the catholic church line and suddenly changed their minds.

    What was that about 16% of the population trusting politicians?

    No one could come up with anything that could cover everything for 35 years. That means no one at all and not just political parties. Even the attorney general 35 years ago had grave misgivings. If you are so great, then why didn't you?

    CHECK! Hurry hurry...next on your list please. We are working to a time scale here as to when the thread gets locked!


  • #3913
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I would never have had an abortion anyway. They don't speak for me and I do not feel in any way indebted or grateful!

    So you would chose to die rather than ask for an abortion like Savita?


  • #3914
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,948 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Just playing devils advocate here, and not sure if its been brought up yet  but ......
    What's next for the right to chose movement ,
    As of now Men are the only person who does not have the right to chose, will anyone now start a campaign for men to have the option to opt out of Fatherhood,
    Women can now have abortion and put kids up for adoption if they want out of parenting but a man is legally required to pay for his child,
    Will this ever change or do Men not deserve the right of choice ?
    Its just a very interesting question and it'll be interesting to see people views on this,


  • #3915
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Agree. No matter what side of the fence you're on, the partying was a bit crass and vulgar in my opinion. I am a female of child bearing age and I voted No. While I was disappointed in the result, that's to be accepted now as we live in a democracy, but I really thought the after partying was over the top. It's not like after the marriage referendum where we had genuine cause for celebration - there are no winners when it comes to abortion.

    I think the removal of something that caused the X Case and the Ms P Case, to name just two, is absolutely something to be celebrated.


  • #3916
    djPSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭djPSB


    dav3 wrote: »
    There will be no blocking, there will be no obstructing.

    More people voted against same-sex marriage than abortion.

    809,728 voted against divorce.
    734,700 voted against same-sex marriage.
    723,632 voted against abortion.

    The politicians need to get on with it at this stage and stop pandering to a minority of loud mouths.

    People voted to repeal the 8th.

    Terms of the legislation are important and need to be got right.


  • #3917
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    No one could come up with anything that could cover everything for 35 years. That means no one at all and not just political parties. Even the attorney general 35 years ago had grave misgivings. If you are so great, then why didn't you?

    CHECK! Hurry hurry...next on your list please. We are working to a time scale here as to when the thread gets locked!


    not so much grave misgivings as "accurately predicted the consequences of the poor wording of the 8th".


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106972377&postcount=6427


  • #3918
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    I'd say part of it will be the likes of youth defence etc protesting at GP or hospitals as they did in the past or physically attacking medics and verbally abusing patients, similar stuff again from their past.

    It was telling I'd say that from a few stunts by some members, that they were kept out of the way by the retain campaign.

    Or Middle-Aged Defence, as they must be at this stage (MAD for short;)). I'm skeptical that this stuff will materialise on any scale, when push comes to shove. I suspect forestalling it was part of the reason behind the GP-led proposal. If placard-wielding mobs turn up outside GP surgeries, hindering little old ladies going in for flu medication or whatever, I'm sure the reaction on Liveline, social media, etc. will convince them sharpish that their activities are entirely pointless and counter-productive.


  • #3919
    woejus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭woejus


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    So you would chose to die rather than ask for an abortion like Savita?

    One doesn't ask for abortions, one demands an abortion, apparently.


  • #3920
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so what data are you referring to? it would have been helpful to post a link directly to the data.

    Unfortunately that's not good enough for DubInMeath. He said he wants to be sure of the source. So I am providing him data from a pro abortion group.


  • #3921
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Just playing devils advocate here, and not sure if its been brought up yet  but ......
    What's next for the right to chose movement ,
    As of now Men are the only person who does not have the right to chose, will anyone now start a campaign for men to have the option to opt out of Fatherhood,
    Women can now have abortion and put kids up for adoption if they want out of parenting but a man is legally required to pay for his child,
    Will this ever change or do Men not deserve the right of choice ?
    Its just a very interesting question and it'll be interesting to see people views on this,

    Not the first to play devils advocate here and it is always done as a concern for the future. :confused:

    Maybe you don't understand what the 8th did to women. That's easy for you to check out. That's why there was a movement for the 8th. Same with what banning SSM did. These were serious issues with inequality.

    Us men do have a choice....sadly. Walk away as many have done previously.


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  • #3922
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Unfortunately that's not good enough for Dulinmeath. He said he wants to be sure of the source. So I am providing him data from a pro abortion group.


    what data? there was no data in the link you provided that supported your position.


  • #3923
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I think I'm on that ignore list too. Yay!


  • #3924
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Who campaigned to have the 8th added to the constitution? I'll give you a clue, it was the catholic church. So removing the 8th is throwing off another shackle of the catholic church.

    And who was in political power when it was added to the constitution?

    The government of the day are the only ones capable of framing referenda and putting it to the people.


  • #3925
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    I think I'm on that ignore list too. Yay!

    You haven't had that particular pleasure yet :)


  • #3926
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    And who was in political power when it was added to the constitution?

    The government of the day are the only ones capable of framing referenda and putting it to the people.


    It was added at the behest of the catholic church and its proxies or are you denying that?


  • #3927
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The 8th wasn't just about abortion. I'll never have one either.
    But I appreciate the new opportunity I now have to consent and withhold consent to procedures I may or may not want done to my body while pregnant.
    It effects maternity care for everyone.

    What procedures can you now withhold consent for now you couldn't with the 8th


  • #3928
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,495 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    You haven't had that particular pleasure yet :)

    I must be too nice :)


  • #3929
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what data? there was no data in the link you provided that supported your position.

    Here is the data.

    http://www.abortionreview.org/index.php/site/article/963/

    98% under Ground C.

    Not my stats, theirs.

    To quote further:
    The vast majority (98%, in 2011) of all abortions take place under Ground C: ‘the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuation of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman’.
    Ground D – ‘the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of any existing children or the family of the pregnant woman’ – accounted for 1 % of all abortions in 2011. Grounds A and B together accounted for about a tenth of one per cent of abortions.
    How are the legal grounds applied in practice?
    Ground C is often referred to as ‘the mental health clause’, and is perceived as the way in which doctors certify abortion ‘on request’, or ‘social abortions’. It is certainly the case that, despite the lack of a formal right to abortion in England and Wales, the abortion law is interpreted liberally to enable women to access abortion when they need it.
    However, the construction of the British abortion law still presents a problem for women and doctors. It is not the case that the majority of women seeking abortion are necessarily at risk of damaging their mental health if they continue their pregnancy. But it is significant that, because of the law, women and their doctors have to indicate that this is the case.

    And before someone says this is just pro life propaganda, this is from a pro abortion website.


  • #3930
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,948 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Just playing devils advocate here, and not sure if its been brought up yet  but ......
    What's next for the right to chose movement ,
    As of now Men are the only person who does not have the right to chose, will anyone now start a campaign for men to have the option to opt out of Fatherhood,
    Women can now have abortion and put kids up for adoption if they want out of parenting but a man is legally required to pay for his child,
    Will this ever change or do Men not deserve the right of choice ?
    Its just a very interesting question and it'll be interesting to see people views on this,

    Not the first to play devils advocate here and it is always done as a concern for the future. :confused:

    Maybe you don't understand what the 8th did to women.  That's easy for you to check out.  That's why there was a movement for the 8th.  Same with what banning SSM did. These were serious issues with inequality.

    Us men do have a choice....sadly. Walk away as many have done previously.
    I'm sorry but your mistaken Men do not have a choice, If a women wants to take a man to court for not paying she can do so,
    I'm all for Yes its great but I'm simply asking would the country support the right of Men to chose  ,


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  • #3931
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    will anyone now start a campaign for men to have the option to opt out of Fatherhood

    I'm sure some neckbeard wearing a fedora* will talk a lot about this, and nothing will happen.

    *or is it trlibys now? I forget.


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