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The Dilemma of the Undecideds in the abortion referendum

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    62% projected (local) turn out cording to my wife whose just come back from the polling station


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Double post


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    They will disappear just like they did after the SSM referendum, <poof>


    So to speak.

    poof_usual_suspects.gif

    After the referendum result, my guess is you'll never hear from them again...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    poof_usual_suspects.gif

    After the referendum result, my guess is you'll never hear from them again...


    ...until the next time some catholic stuff gets removed from our constitution. It's like clockwork. Out they'll come pretending that their position has nothing to do with religion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    They've just disappeared from my view anyway. Thank you ignore button!


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  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I notice you didn't deal with questions on what constitutes a life.
    The question, for me, is: should Irish people have ready access to reproductive healthcare. Your philosophical questions, insofar as they are designed with a view to deny such access, are not interesting to me.
    Beware, if you quote "science says", you're really only pointing to your philosophical decision to be guided, to large degree, by science.
    Being guided by science isn't a criticism as far as I'm concerned, but you do you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I wonder how many of the No camp have an issue with contraception?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,258 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I wonder how many of the No camp have an issue with contraception?

    They have an issue with anything that gives people a choice and not just this particular referendum


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    ...until the next time some catholic stuff gets removed from our constitution. It's like clockwork. Out they'll come pretending that their position has nothing to do with religion.

    But is there any remaining issue remotely as contentious as abortion? There is talk of a referendum to liberalise the divorce laws; do you think that will generate 5% of the heat of this one? If the Catholic right bother to oppose it at all, I'd say they'll just be going through the motions. So I guess it's not true to say "you'll never hear from them again," but they won't be nearly as loud...


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I wonder how many of the No camp have an issue with contraception?

    Plenty I'd say if we're now going to be using abortion as contraception.

    The data says std's rise when abortion comes in.

    More unprotected sex, more unplanned pregnancy, more abortions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,258 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    But is there any remaining issue remotely as contentious as abortion? There is talk of a referendum to liberalise the divorce laws; do you think that will generate 5% of the heat of this one? If the Catholic right bother to oppose it at all, I'd say they'll just be going through the motions. So I guess it's not true to say "you'll never hear from them again," but they won't be nearly as loud...

    An animal backed in to a corner will fight tooth and nail for its survival
    Sure as hell they will fight the result every which way they can


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    But is there any remaining issue remotely as contentious as abortion? There is talk of a referendum to liberalise the divorce laws; do you think that will generate 5% of the heat of this one? If the Catholic right bother to oppose it at all, I'd say they'll just be going through the motions. So I guess it's not true to say "you'll never hear from them again," but they won't be nearly as loud...

    Euthenasia is probably more contentious. It's the next on the list


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,258 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Plenty I'd say if we're now going to be using abortion as contraception.

    The data says std's rise when abortion comes in.

    Utter dribble, STD's have been on the rise for years - abortion is never anything to do with this but more liberal views on things like not having to wait to get married before you have sex!


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Utter dribble, STD's have been on the rise for years - abortion is never anything to do with this but more liberal views on things like not having to wait to get married before you have sex!

    Ah hello the morning after pill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    poof_usual_suspects.gif

    After the referendum result, my guess is you'll never hear from them again...

    Not 'guessing' anymore!:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    poof_usual_suspects.gif

    After the referendum result, my guess is you'll never hear from them again...

    There not the only ones you won't be hearing from:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    This has to be the biggest grasping at straws. Arguing that abortion is anti lgbt because a woman might terminate her pregnancy because she got a feeling that the foetus was gay.

    Never before have I seen such a bizarre argument. And never before has the ultra catholic right tried to cozy up to the gay community. Especially knowing that they believe that god loves every baby from conception until it turns gay!

    Shown below as a parody page. Thank fcuk.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    joeguevara wrote:
    Never before have I seen such a bizarre argument. And never before has the ultra catholic right tried to cozy up to the gay community. Especially knowing that they believe that god loves every baby from conception until it turns gay!


    This is perhaps the most ****ed up argument against repeal I read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    This is perhaps the most ****ed up argument against repeal I read.

    I was wondering whether they were hacked. It is like one of those satirical channel 4 shows who try and create the most crazy story and see if people will swallow it. The scariest part is that it wasn’t a joke post.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭FingerDeKat


    There not the only ones you won't be hearing from:(
    Why ? Do 6 cm foetuses have the ability to talk ? Surely the anti-choice crowd would of mentioned this ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I was undecided right up to about 30mimutes before I voted yesterday evening.

    I can honestly say that neither option 100% represented my position on the 8th and had to compromise on the decision in order to excerise my vote which I feel is very important.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,265 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    _Brian wrote: »
    I was undecided right up to about 30mimutes before I voted yesterday evening.

    I can honestly say that neither option 100% represented my position on the 8th and had to compromise on the decision in order to excerise my vote which I feel is very important.


    I'd say a lot of people in a similar position voted Yes for what they thought was the best for women of the country, despite being uncomfortable with abortion.

    A powerful message for the Yes side in this whole debate was this:

    "You don’t have to agree with abortion to vote “Yes” to repeal the 8th".


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    i hate saying things were better in my day but where were the bands young people listen to during the referendum... a good few of the bigger young "bands" were silent..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    i hate saying things were better in my day but where were the bands young people listen to during the referendum... a good few of the bigger young "bands" were silent..


    not.. sure.. what... your .. saying .. here


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    not.. sure.. what... your .. saying .. here

    That some of the more established young bands with a large reach stayed out of it for PR purposes


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    That some of the more established young bands with a large reach stayed out of it for PR purposes


    yeah you don't want to alienate your fans I suppose

    imagine Daniel o Donnell advocating a yes vote given the way the vote is going in Donegal


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    What an incredible moment it was last night to be having a pint in the Bernard Shaw as the news trickled through of a predicted resounding Yes win, with people gathering at the beautifully simple and poignant Savita mural with flowers, candles and messages of respect. One of those 'moments in time' that I will never forget. That the march of social progress in Ireland over the past number of decades has been supplemented by the Irish peoples' votes and engagement in the referendum process is a remarkable statement of a collective will to make this a more tolerant, caring and rational society --- a society where we at least try to weigh up the torturous difficulties of life, rather than be dictated to by dogmatists who were never any more qualified to make those calls than we were.

    The fact that I thought it was going to be really close or perhaps even a 'No' vote is indicative of how fallacious this 'bullying and bias' argument was. I saw plenty of opinion pieces and speeches supportive of a No vote. If there was any apparent bias, it would now seem clear that this was simply due to the fact that the strong majority of Irish people supported Yes. The argument of the No voters was heard loud and clear, and it has been rejected with even greater loudness and clarity.

    Nonetheless, I don't think this is a day for waving flags; abortion is an uncomfortable and solemn matter. But I can appreciate that for the young women who were mocked (and I definitely engaged in a bit of this myself I would admit) as the 'blue-haired Repeal jumper-wearing feminazis', there must be a certain sense of vindication and pride. They may have been theatrical at times, but it was the passion of people like these who helped to get the snowball rolling. I also salute those who carried this fight through the years before it became popular -- there is often no greater courage than the courage to risk the censure, derision, and even hatred of your peers. I'm sure today is an emotional one for all of them.

    And finally, what a wonderful day for the women of this country. A country which once treated your sexuality as something to be frightened of, and your body as a possession of dogma. A country whose laws would have frightened and confused young girls sitting crying in their bedroom having taken illegal abortion pills. A country which hypocritically allowed those who had the means to seek abortions elsewhere, while those without the means were simply forced to endure. That country has now resoundingly taken control of your bodily integrity out of the hands of the State and passed it back to its rightful owner -- you, and you alone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    What an incredible moment it was last night to be having a pint in the Bernard Shaw as the news trickled through of a predicted resounding Yes win, with people gathering at the beautifully simple and poignant Savita mural with flowers, candles and messages of respect. One of those 'moments in time' that I will never forget. That the march of social progress in Ireland over the past number of decades has been supplemented by the Irish peoples' votes and engagement in the referendum process is a remarkable statement of a collective will to make this a more tolerant, caring and rational society --- a society where we at least try to weigh up the torturous difficulties of life, rather than be dictated to by dogmatists who were never any more qualified to make those calls than we were.

    The fact that I thought it was going to be really close or perhaps even a 'No' vote is indicative of how fallacious this 'bullying and bias' argument was. I saw plenty of opinion pieces and speeches supportive of a No vote. If there was any apparent bias, it would now seem clear that this was simply due to the fact that the strong majority of Irish people supported Yes. The argument of the No voters was heard loud and clear, and it has been rejected with even greater loudness and clarity.

    Nonetheless, I don't think this is a day for waving flags; abortion is an uncomfortable and solemn matter. But I can appreciate that for the young women who were mocked (and I definitely engaged in a bit of this myself I would admit) as the 'blue-haired Repeal jumper-wearing feminazis', there must be a certain sense of vindication and pride. They may have been theatrical at times, but it was the passion of people like these who helped to get the snowball rolling. I also salute those who carried this fight through the years before it became popular -- there is often no greater courage than the courage to risk the censure, derision, and even hatred of your peers. I'm sure today is an emotional one for all of them.

    And finally, what a wonderful day for the women of this country. A country which once treated your sexuality as something to be frightened of, and your body as a possession of dogma. A country whose laws would have frightened and confused young girls sitting crying in their bedroom having taken illegal abortion pills. A country which hypocritically allowed those who had the means to seek abortions elsewhere, while those without the means were simply forced to endure. That country has now resoundingly taken control of your bodily integrity out of the hands of the State and passed it back to its rightful owner -- you, and you alone.



    I gather from someone fb-ing on the RTE poll, that if combining No and Yes views, there was 72% in favour of legislating for the hard cases.

    And only 52% in favour of legislation on abortion on demand.



    Wonder will this lead to a toning down of the legislation - given the split view on it.


    (interestingly, for all those who say posters are past their time, 10% say their decision was influenced by them)


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