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The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    gandalf wrote: »
    Christian ISIS were driving a lorry around Firhouse an hour ago with graphic abortion pics all over it. These tactics are turning a lot of people against them.

    See they has some video of one of the posters getting slashed. It's amazing how they managed to have someone driving along under the bridge and film the whole thing including the cyclist getting off his bike. Also they had their videos at the ready on the bridge...... ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Calina wrote: »
    Simple majority required.

    A simple majority of eligible voters. A win of less than 100k votes will certainly be challenged and have a good chance of success. Less than 10k like divorce and the poll will almost certainly be found invalid.

    Not certain I agree. TBH you would have to prove that 1) enough illegal votes were cast and 2) they all voted one way. I don't imagine we will avoid court cases but I would not take bets in the outcome.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭Mtx


    Sad to hear about these repeal parties being planned. Not the thing to have a glass over...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Lots of people in Clontarf getting the beeps from the cars. It gives the funny feelings.

    Whatever you’re into, Gintonious, no judgement here. :P :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    But if they have abortion they wont NEED a free house!

    Swings and roundabouts really.

    Yes but gammon man has a dilemma! He doesnt like the single mothers getting free houses, but he doesnt want the hussies getting abortions either!

    And the snowflakes will prob give the free houses to Nigerian taxi driver rapists then!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    A simple majority of eligible voters. A win of less than 100k votes will certainly be challenged and have a good chance of success. Less than 10k like divorce and the poll will almost certainly be found invalid.

    This hypothesis is based on???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,675 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    A simple majority of eligible voters. A win of less than 100k votes will certainly be challenged and have a good chance of success. Less than 10k like divorce and the poll will almost certainly be found invalid.

    What? Challenged on what basis and a good chance of what success?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    spookwoman wrote: »
    See they has some video of one of the posters getting slashed. It's amazing how they managed to have someone driving along under the bridge and film the whole thing including the cyclist getting of his bike. Also they had their videos at the ready on the bridge...... ;)

    Probably trying to sway attention away from the neo-Nazi flags they were flogging the other day, or better yet the absolute show some of their most prominent have been making of themselves on TV the last few days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    The result will be challenged in the courts if it passes regardless


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,167 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Try_harder wrote: »
    The result will be challenged in the courts if it passes regardless

    on what basis?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,636 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Irish Courts are extremely unlikely to interfere in any democratic decision. That has always been the practice. Stop pedalling porkies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    on what basis?

    Anything- frivolous reasons were used after the last referendum


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    Calina wrote: »
    Not certain I agree. TBH you would have to prove that 1) enough illegal votes were cast and 2) they all voted one way. I don't imagine we will avoid court cases but I would not take bets in the outcome.

    You wouldn't have to prove it as it wouldn't be possible. You would only have to cast reasonable doubt on the validity of the poll.

    A re-run would be the result. And if it finally meant the register was fixed it would be a good outcome.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,712 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    A friend of mine is voting no because he said George Soros is funding part of the Yes campaign.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Water John wrote: »
    Irish Courts are extremely unlikely to interfere in any democratic decision. That has always been the practice. Stop pedalling porkies.

    Past referenda that were successful were challenged in the courts. The Childrens Rights one dragged on a long time


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Pa8301


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    You wouldn't have to prove it as it wouldn't be possible. You would only have to cast reasonable doubt on the validity of the poll.

    A re-run would be the result. And if it finally meant the register was fixed it would be a good outcome.


    Can you give me a source for your reasonable doubt argument? I'm just genuinely curious. What law is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I keep thinking this might not pass (Yes), but all that is required is 50.1% yes really. Wasn't divorce won with a very small margin also.

    Anyway I am fearing the worst, but hoping for the best.

    All I can say at this point is that it is a pleasure not to have to listen to the NO side pontificating and controlling women's lives.... again due to the moratorium. They should surely have learnt their lesson when the little unwanted children were thrown into the sewer in Tuam, not to mention the dodgy American adoptions, and the treatment of single mothers in the Magdalenes.

    Time to move on and treat women with the respect they deserve to make their own choices now, here, in this country. They are doing it anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    Water John wrote: »
    Irish Courts are extremely unlikely to interfere in any democratic decision. That has always been the practice. Stop pedalling porkies.

    It's not porkies to say that if the poll is very tight <10k home to vote will be the grounds for a challenge. And it will be successful thanks to enough clowns looking for Twitter and Facebook likes.

    The integrity of the poll is more important than the result.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,714 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Drumpot wrote: »
    Whatever the outcome of the vote I want to see greater resources and time put into education for all parties. Sex can lead to pregnancy. You are not a victim of pregnancy if you have consensual sex .It’s alwasy a risk and making it easier to “correct” the mistake shouldn’t absolve us as a society of reducing these mistakes with greater teaching and valuing the responsibility of engaging in sex.

    I reject the suggestion by anybody that An abortion just effects the woman making the choice. If the partner cares about the decision being made then that’s a person with skin in the game who should be considered. It’s not to say that the male gets to choose but as a society we value all interested parties inputs. I have three sons and there is a decent chance that the outcome of this vote could affect at least one of them in the future.

    In the RTdocumentary recently it said that in Norway abortions shot up when it was introduced. But it reduced when they implemented an improvemen in sex education in schools. We need a proper sex education programme to follow either vote outcome.

    In France , apparently some woman are supposedly shamed into abortions because a culture that has formed from abortions being available. We don’t want this either where society encourages poor or unwell or certain woman to have abortions when they might not want them. That’s a completely different kind of lifestyle abortion that some people don’t consider.

    That’s the concern I have that the unintended consequences of not properly engaging everybody - woman, men and children (instead of making it a “woman’s choice” issue) will mean it will remain a toxic and divisive cultural issue. Let’s heal the divide whatever the outcome and make this not just a woman’s problem.... On either side of the gender, If you don’t value your partners views/values then how can you expect them to be able to completely support you when a major life changing decision is being made?

    I am adopted and it’s hard to not think if I would of been here had abortions been available when I was conceived. This is a fact that I cannot ignore , nor should I have to because it doesn’t suit some people’s narrative of this topic. I think going through a full pregnancy and giving a child up for adoption is possibly the most selfless thing a person can do and as a society we should value it. But not at the expense of forcing somebody into it.

    An abortion shouldn’t be an easy decision to make and it should affect the woman making the decision. Once she has weighed up all her options , gotten appropriate medical advice , considered the views of those who will be affected by the decision and most importantly factored in her own feelings, she should be supported medicaly and emotional in as empathetic a way is possible. Society should not shame or frown her decision. I would like to think that most people think in these sort of lines.

    I don't think any yes voter would disagree with increased resources for sex education for children, ironically, a large proportion of no voters would object

    I think contraception, especially long lasting implants should be free. Women should have the choice of how to control their fertility. Again, this is another thing that many on the No side would oppose.

    Abortion isn't an easy solution.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Got a Love Boats flyer through the door- illiterate Fcuks cant read my sign it seems....

    Such lies and hysteria on it!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    The Orange Order calls for a No... surprising...

    And Nick Griffin- presumably just for white women


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 40,053 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    storker wrote: »
    Yep. And like friend or relatives who might have been aborted, we'll never know. It's not as if some kid, doing a project on Mother Theresa, is going to Google her and

    Just as an aside, MT was mentioned in my kid's school a couple of months ago. They were specifically told by the teacher that if they were searching for MT on the internet, they were to search for "Mother Teresa FOR KIDS"

    Just in case the truth, and Hitchens' magnificent J'Accuse against her, were to be found! :cool:

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Try_harder wrote: »
    The Orange Order calls for a No... surprising...

    Great fillip for the waverers. Vote No and support Snarlene. Or whoever supports the Orange Order.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Digital_Guy


    My feeling is that countries that legislate for abortion on demand (which is what it is, let's face facts - anyone can have one up to 12 weeks for any reason), is that it helps create a culture of abortion. I think that's what undecided and no voters are understandably concerned about.

    And yes it's already happening, but voting for it is another matter entirely. How can you vote for something you disagree with? Laws change culture, that's a fact. I think of that woman on TV3 earlier in the week saying that she has 20 friends who have had abortions...20!! That is messed up.

    Only up until pretty recently, people thought nothing of getting into their cars drunk and driving home. Pub car parks were as full as you like at the weekends. Now, it's clearly so different - the car parks are a lot emptier (and no, not just because fewer people are going to pubs!), and there are way fewer drink drivers and road casualties are a fraction of what they once were.

    It's now socially unacceptable to drink and drive, because laws were passed, there was education and awareness campaigns and behaviour changed.

    Same with abortion - if it's culturally acceptable the rates will go up. Look at Britain.

    This article sums it up for me right now: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-if-you-vote-for-choice-you-are-facilitating-abortions-1.3505850?__vfz=c_pages%3D11000002670848

    "But it's happening anyway" - just because something is happening anyway, doesn't make it right or something you should vote for.

    Right?! Undecided but leaning towards no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    My feeling is that countries that legislate for abortion on demand (which is what it is, let's face facts - anyone can have one up to 12 weeks for any reason), is that it helps create a culture of abortion. I think that's what undecided and no voters are understandably concerned about.

    And yes it's already happening, but voting for it is another matter entirely. How can you vote for something you disagree with? Laws change culture, that's a fact. I think of that woman on TV3 earlier in the week saying that she has 20 friends who have had abortions...20!! That is messed up.

    Only up until pretty recently, people thought nothing of getting into their cars drunk and driving home. Pub car parks were as full as you like at the weekends. Now, it's clearly so different - the car parks are a lot emptier (and no, not just because fewer people are going to pubs!), and there are way fewer drink drivers and road casualties are a fraction of what they once were.

    It's now socially unacceptable to drink and drive, because laws were passed, there was education and awareness campaigns and behaviour changed.

    Same with abortion - if it's culturally acceptable the rates will go up. Look at Britain.

    This article sums it up for me right now: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-if-you-vote-for-choice-you-are-facilitating-abortions-1.3505850?__vfz=c_pages%3D11000002670848

    "But it's happening anyway" - just because something is happening anyway, doesn't make it right or something you should vote for.

    Right?! Undecided but leaning towards no.
    Opinion piece by Breda O'Brien nuff said :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Mary Lou pinning her rep on a yes. Another big Tweet from her.

    Wonder what will happen the two lost sheep in SF... defect to FF?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    2pm today was the moratorium deadline.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,533 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Media ban is from 2PM Today.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    The day men can become pregnant is the day on demand abortion will NEVER be a problem ever, anywhere.


This discussion has been closed.
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