Buying bitcoins

makeorbrake · 18-05-2018 7:04pm

Kuva wrote: »

Now that the blockchain is editable (if they want) is it all not now a waste of time?

How do you mean, editable?

Kuva · 18-05-2018 7:14pm

makeorbrake wrote: »

How do you mean, editable?

https://www.google.com/search?q=edit+blockchain&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Accenture^

JohnnyFlash · 18-05-2018 7:34pm

The good folk at Tether have just printed another quarter of a billion of their coins.

Chancer3001 · 18-05-2018 8:58pm

Source ?

JohnnyFlash · 18-05-2018 9:24pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Source ?

https://omniexplorer.info/address/3MbYQMMmSkC3AgWkj9FMo5LsPTW1zBTwXL

Comes a day after Bitfinex announced they required additional identification documentation from their larger customers. I suspect the gents who run Tether and Bitfinex are up to some ‘funny business’.

makeorbrake · 19-05-2018 5:10am

Kuva wrote: »

https://www.google.com/search?q=edit+blockchain&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Accenture^

Thanks for the link. Getting back to your point, is it not a case that specific centralised blockchains can be set up so as they are editable. How does this make blockchain generally pointless? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something...

rottie 11 · 20-05-2018 2:10pm

Are the bitcoin fees still high ? Last time i used it the fees were 20euro+ even for 10euro orders

h0neybadger · 20-05-2018 2:17pm

rottie 11 wrote: »

Are the bitcoin fees still high ? Last time i used it the fees were 20euro+ even for 10euro orders

No. Extremely cheap now.

rottie 11 · 20-05-2018 2:56pm

h0neybadger wrote: »

No. Extremely cheap now.

Cheers

JohnnyFlash · 20-05-2018 10:07pm

I'm confused lads. Ye are all well aware that I'm a cynic when it comes to cryptocurrencies. And I'd like to think I've become someone who has developed a basic understanding about the whole scene. Genuinely find it interesting.

The volumes over the past few days have been chronic (talking about Bitcoin, as it's the only one that really fascinates me). GDax reporting volumes of 3900, with much of that being the usual bot 'painting the tape' sort of activity. Tether created another 250 million worth of USDT during the week which quickly found its way to Binance, Okex, Bitfinex etc. So that's free money to go wild on the spot market.

Where's the fresh money coming from though? Is that free Tether money just like getting credit from the house so exchanges can play 'war games' amongst one another? Where's the liquidity coming into the market? The punters firing money into bitcoin from their credit card or bank transfer have very few avenues to do so. Who is paying for the electricity bill, and how are they turning bitcoin into cash?

I can't work it out, but I'm not very good at this sort of stuff.

Chancer3001 · 20-05-2018 10:24pm

You sell Bitcoin and cash out at coinbase.

Simples

grindle · 20-05-2018 10:39pm

Punters may have few entry points but those entry points still exist, not sure where the confusion lies there? OTC markets are responsible for larger cash flows in and out than casual exchanges - minimum buy-ins of $200k+ are the standard for OTC and the average buy-in over at Circle OTC is apparently $1m, so there's plenty of real money swimming around which probably confounds you.
Not sure what you mean about electricity - the miners pay their bills by selling some of their stack?

JohnnyFlash · 21-05-2018 12:27am

grindle wrote: »

Punters may have few entry points but those entry points still exist, not sure where the confusion lies there? OTC markets are responsible for larger cash flows in and out than casual exchanges - minimum buy-ins of $200k+ are the standard for OTC and the average buy-in over at Circle OTC is apparently $1m, so there's plenty of real money swimming around which probably confounds you.
Not sure what you mean about electricity - the miners pay their bills by selling some of their stack?

Likely to be confused, Grindle. Could never be accused of being a man of intelligence. The brother got them, and the other brother got the looks. Not sure it served either of them well, but that's another story.

I get these ideas in my head though, and have to say them out. So like there's these coins called bitcoins. And they are currently using 0.8% of all the electricity on earth to verify any transaction. Everyone gets a copy of that transaction, which is cool, but they can only do 7 of them per second while melting the glaciers - not cool.

And the miners have to pay for new equipment; electricity, staff, etc. If there's no new money going into crypto, then who is paying that out the other side? Even a thick like me can see what Tether and Binance are doing, but I'm genuinely starting to get confused about where the FIAT is coming from to pay for all this mining.

makeorbrake · 21-05-2018 6:34am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

(talking about Bitcoin, as it's the only one that really fascinates me)

Ok, but it fascinates you because you believe its rubbish. Does that mean that other crypto's are not?.....

smacl · 21-05-2018 7:20am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

And they are currently using 0.8% of all the electricity on earth to verify any transaction.

What's your source on that Johnny? Digiconomist has it at 0.3% which is still an entirely unacceptable waste of energy IMHO. As for the ice caps, worth remembering that electricity amounts to less than 40% of the energy we consume. I suspect the other 99.88% of the energy we consume may be having some effect on those ice caps too. Maybe consult with your smarter brother and come back to us on that one?

JohnnyFlash · 21-05-2018 11:34am

smacl wrote: »

What's your source on that Johnny? Digiconomist has it at 0.3% which is still an entirely unacceptable waste of energy IMHO. As for the ice caps, worth remembering that electricity amounts to less than 40% of the energy we consume. I suspect the other 99.88% of the energy we consume may be having some effect on those ice caps too. Maybe consult with your smarter brother and come back to us on that one?

Sorry, I was full of porter last night, and got my figures mixed up. The figure is 1.8% by the end of next year.

https://grist.org/article/bitcoins-e...se-than-usual/

“A single bitcoin transaction is so energy intensive that it could power the average U.S. household for a month”.

“A fluctuating bitcoin price, along with increases in computer efficiency, has slowed the cryptocurrency’s energy footprint growth rate to “just” 20 percent per month so far in this year. If that keeps up, bitcoin would consume all the world’s electricity by January 2021”.

“By late next year, bitcoin could be consuming more electricity than all the world’s solar panels currently produce — about 1.8 percent of global electricity, according to a simple extrapolation of the study’s predictions. That would effectively erase decades of progress on renewable energy”.

The argument that well other things are causing pollution so what does it matter about Bitcoin is such a morally and intellectually lazy argument that the only rationale response is :rolleyes:

grindle · 21-05-2018 11:50am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I get these ideas in my head though, and have to say them out. So like there's these coins called bitcoins. And they are currently using 0.8% of all the electricity on earth to verify any transaction. Everyone gets a copy of that transaction, which is cool, but they can only do 7 of them per second while melting the glaciers - not cool.

And the miners have to pay for new equipment; electricity, staff, etc. If there's no new money going into crypto, then who is paying that out the other side? Even a thick like me can see what Tether and Binance are doing, but I'm genuinely starting to get confused about where the FIAT is coming from to pay for all this mining.

People are still ploughing money in. You keep assuming the PoV that the market's been abandoned by the average punters, you keep ignoring the billions of OTC sales per day which show nowhere on CMC. You keep ignoring any points made to anything you say and then reiterating your own points again.
I get your point about electricity cost per tx, it's wasteful and one of many reasons I'm not a huge BTC bull, but you seem to think the wider market should rationalise BTC's value downwards based on this despite the profit motive inherent in buying the most deflationary asset with the biggest brand attached?
Normal markets aren't that rational, the crypto market is orders of magnitude less rational.

JohnnyFlash · 21-05-2018 12:07pm

grindle wrote: »

People are still ploughing money in. You keep assuming the PoV that the market's been abandoned by the average punters, you keep ignoring the billions of OTC sales per day which show nowhere on CMC. You keep ignoring any points made to anything you say and then reiterating your own points again.
I get your point about electricity cost per tx, it's wasteful and one of many reasons I'm not a huge BTC bull, but you seem to think the wider market should rationalise BTC's value downwards based on this despite the profit motive inherent in buying the most deflationary asset with the biggest brand attached?
Normal markets aren't that rational, the crypto market is orders of magnitude less rational.

Where’s the proof that average money is still being ploughed into the market? The trading volumes would indicate that this simply isn’t the case. When did any of the speculators around here last buy bitcoin for example?

All I can see at the moment is bots pretending to trade, Tether moving between Bitfinex and Binance, and Tether being printed to keep some stimulus in the market. Might all look very busy on the surface, but there’s fûck all happening in reality.

smacl · 21-05-2018 12:14pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Sorry, I was full of porter last night, and got my figures mixed up. The figure is 1.8% by the end of next year.

https://grist.org/article/bitcoins-e...se-than-usual/

Your link doesn't work, should be this. It points to a peer reviewed study that predicts that bitcoins electricity consumption could be up to 0.5% by end of year, then adds what appears to be an entirely unsupported upward extrapolation to 1.8% by end of next year. While bitcoins energy footprint is clearly unacceptable, your source seems dubious in the conclusions its drawing, and your suggestion that bitcoin mining is "melting the glaciers" entirely specious. A headline including the tagline "you libertarian nerds look even worse than usual" doesn't add much to your source's credibility.

grindle · 21-05-2018 12:33pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Where’s the proof that average money is still being ploughed into the market? The trading volumes would indicate that this simply isn’t the case. When did any of the speculators around here last buy bitcoin for example?

I've been buying more ETH and others recently, don't really care about BTC for my portfolio. Same for the group of friends in our Telegram group, we've all been pushing more cash into oversold magic beans.
You're fixated on BTC whatever the case. How come billions in OTC sales mean nothing to you?
Also, not all bots are working together in unison - they're owned by hundreds of parties interested in scraping an extra 1-2% of whatever coins they're set to trade in. I get the feeling you think they're all owned and run by the exchanges?

JohnnyFlash · 21-05-2018 12:34pm

Fine, here’s the peer reviewed journal article about the topic.

https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(18)30177-6

Here’s another source that presents some hard truths: https://powercompare.co.uk/bitcoin/

That 1.8% figure is based on the price of bitcoin staying around 8k. If the price were to go up then energy usage would explode also. It’s becoming a serious problem. For what? So people can speculate on the price of them? Madness. It’s actua outrageous if you think about it for more than 10 seconds.

JohnnyFlash · 21-05-2018 12:47pm

grindle wrote: »

I've been buying more ETH and others recently, don't really care about BTC for my portfolio. Same for the group of friends in our Telegram group, we've all been pushing more cash into oversold magic beans.
You're fixated on BTC whatever the case. How come billions in OTC sales mean nothing to you?
Also, not all bots are working together in unison - they're owned by hundreds of parties interested in scraping an extra 1-2% of whatever coins they're set to trade in. I get the feeling you think they're all owned and run by the exchanges?

I’m fixated on bitcoin because it’s the biggest, the oldest, and the most written about. The rest of them are just scams and shïtcoins. Ethereum’s only usage at the moment appears to be a platform for launching other coins - a never ending stream of hype, badly written white papers, conferences attended by fat men, pump and dumps etc.

No, I’m aware bots are used by various parties. Your own bot isn’t worth a curse though if the Bitfinex and Binance bots are up to their trick. Finally, I hear so much about this otc market. But don’t see any evidence to support it. Large moves between wallets should be happening at least occasionally. Yet everyone shïts their pants when MtGox dude moves 4K coins. Nah. All is not right in the kingdom of Crypto.

Nermal · 21-05-2018 12:51pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That 1.8% figure is based on the price of bitcoin staying around 8k. If the price were to go up then energy usage would explode also. It’s becoming a serious problem. For what?

To secure the network. If you can think of a better way to transact in a trustless fashion, we're all ears.

21-05-2018 12:52pm

The skeptics thread might be best for some of this perhaps?

makeorbrake · 21-05-2018 12:59pm

On the power consumption issue, are all of these 'studies' taking account of 2nd layer / off-chain transaction growth which should result in lower average btc power consumption?

makeorbrake · 21-05-2018 1:02pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’m fixated on bitcoin because it’s the biggest, the oldest, and the most written about. The rest of them are just scams and shïtcoins. Ethereum’s only usage at the moment appears to be a platform for launching other coins - a never ending stream of hype, badly written white papers, conferences attended by fat men, pump and dumps etc.

So there isn't one good project out there? There isn't one project that builds on bitcoin and improves upon it? Your current hard on is for energy consumption and yet there are legitimate projects out there using PoS and close to zero (significant) energy consumption. Go figure...

Whelo79 · 21-05-2018 1:13pm

The man by his own admission is as thick as two planks of wood. Why keep engaging him in conversation? As already stated by numerous posters, he takes nothing on board he is told and continually returns spouting the same nonsense over and over again. He has his opinion and is not interested in being educated on the positives to come from blockchain and crypto specifically. The conversations should end here!

JohnnyFlash · 21-05-2018 1:18pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

The man by his own admission is as thick as two planks of wood. Why keep engaging him in conversation? As already stated by numerous posters, he takes nothing on board he is told and continually returns spouting the same nonsense over and over again. He has his opinion and is not interested in being educated on the positives to come from blockchain and crypto specifically. The conversations should end here!

Name the positives of crypto over conventional payment and transfer systems? Name one practical wide scale implemented so far and why it offers advantages over an existing technology and business in that area. Describe how it offers advantages using a trustless model, and how the extremely high cost per transaction is economically viable.

I’m the one posting links from research and industry experts. Not the one relying on emotion, gut feeling, and getting sarky cause someone dares question their beloved crypto coins.

Whelo79 · 21-05-2018 2:06pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Name the positives of crypto over conventional payment and transfer systems? Name one practical wide scale implemented so far and why it offers advantages over an existing technology and business in that area. Describe how it offers advantages using a trustless model, and how the extremely high cost per transaction is economically viable.

I’m the one posting links from research and industry experts. Not the one relying on emotion, gut feeling, and getting sarky cause someone dares question their beloved crypto coins.

Why would I waste my time? Multiple posters have given you numerous examples over and over and over again. You ignore them, go away for a couple of days and then come back with your same nonsense. Maybe you just regularly post when up to your eyeballs in booze and just can't remember what you have been told. As you have mentioned on a couple of occasions that you were under the influence whilst posting.

Kuva · 21-05-2018 7:14pm

Whelo79 wrote: »

Why would I waste my time? Multiple posters have given you numerous examples over and over and over again. You ignore them, go away for a couple of days and then come back with your same nonsense. Maybe you just regularly post when up to your eyeballs in booze and just can't remember what you have been told. As you have mentioned on a couple of occasions that you were under the influence whilst posting.

Answer away for relative newbies like me

SteelyDanJalapeno · 21-05-2018 8:38pm

I dont usually post charts here, but I seen lots of comments about nobody making money, well I've been consistently making good returns since Christmas, JohnnyFlash has written my methods off as chasing PnDs in a previous thread so not trying to prove anything to him.

But an example of patience paying off today, set a support/Base price level of about 13000 on this chart ELEC/ETH about a month ago, finally came to fruition today it broke the base and fell over 12% down, of course it returned to the base price within hours. You could be in and out banking 10% profit in 4 - 6 hours.

This is just one example, I've got up to 200 alerts running at anyone time.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/5b032c87b9267/

WhiteMemento9 · 21-05-2018 8:41pm

RoboKlopp wrote: »

The skeptics thread might be best for some of this perhaps?

Not getting enough attention in that thread. Something seriously wrong in someone's life when they spend so much time posting about something on a forum that they literally have no investment in.

Doodee · 22-05-2018 7:35am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That 1.8% figure is based on the price of bitcoin staying around 8k. If the price were to go up then energy usage would explode also. It’s becoming a serious problem. For what? So people can speculate on the price of them? Madness. It’s actua outrageous if you think about it for more than 10 seconds.

Out of curiosity do you have figures for the power consumption of traditional transaction services like Visa, etc?

Would like to know how they compare to BTC power usage on a per tx basis.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 22-05-2018 8:06am

Whelo79 wrote: »

Why would I waste my time? Multiple posters have given you numerous examples over and over and over again. You ignore them, go away for a couple of days and then come back with your same nonsense. Maybe you just regularly post when up to your eyeballs in booze and just can't remember what you have been told. As you have mentioned on a couple of occasions that you were under the influence whilst posting.

I actually think Johnny might have a problem with the gargle if truth be told. The fcuker seems like he's half pissed most of the time.

Does have his moments of lucidity though. He's made some pretty compelling arguments against bitcoin in any case.

JohnnyFlash · 22-05-2018 9:47am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I actually think Johnny might have a problem with the gargle if truth be told. The fcuker seems like he's half pissed most of the time.

Does have his moments of lucidity though. He's made some pretty compelling arguments against bitcoin in any case.

No doubting I’ve a lip on me for porter, Paddy, but keep it to the weekend. Unusual for me to be well on it of a Sunday evening but I was celebrating Wexford beating Dublin. A sauna, a good shîte, and a chicken fillet roll and I’m out and about like I never touched a drop in my life.

My arguments are based on reading about the topic quite extensively. Smart bucks from Harvard, ULA, Stanford etc. saying the space is a load of cock. Lads with a few bob like Bil Gates and Buffett saying they’d short the shîte out of the market, a newspaper like the Financial Times witting it off.

Even today there’s another dude saying there’s a good chance Bitcoins true value is 0. Not some punter spouting shîte on a message board; but the chief economist of a 5 trillion euro investment firm. Probably a salty nocoiner though.

Kuva · 22-05-2018 10:08am

Doodee wrote: »

Out of curiosity do you have figures for the power consumption of traditional transaction services like Visa, etc?

Would like to know how they compare to BTC power usage on a per tx basis.

https://hackernoon.com/the-bitcoin-vs-visa-electricity-consumption-fallacy-8cf194987a50

https://www.coinspeaker.com/2015/06/30/bitcoin-uses-5000-times-more-power-per-transaction-than-visa-says-cryptography-expert-10325/

Doodee · 22-05-2018 12:58pm

Kuva wrote: »

Doodee wrote: »

Out of curiosity do you have figures for the power consumption of traditional transaction services like Visa, etc?

Would like to know how they compare to BTC power usage on a per tx basis.

https://hackernoon.com/the-bitcoin-vs-visa-electricity-consumption-fallacy-8cf194987a50

https://www.coinspeaker.com/2015/06/30/bitcoin-uses-5000-times-more-power-per-transaction-than-visa-says-cryptography-expert-10325/

Thank you

SteelyDanJalapeno · 22-05-2018 1:20pm

Bears are back in town, where's our butcher?

SteelyDanJalapeno · 22-05-2018 8:42pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

I dont usually post charts here, but I seen lots of comments about nobody making money, well I've been consistently making good returns since Christmas, JohnnyFlash has written my methods off as chasing PnDs in a previous thread so not trying to prove anything to him.

But an example of patience paying off today, set a support/Base price level of about 13000 on this chart ELEC/ETH about a month ago, finally came to fruition today it broke the base and fell over 12% down, of course it returned to the base price within hours. You could be in and out banking 10% profit in 4 - 6 hours.

This is just one example, I've got up to 200 alerts running at anyone time.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/5b032c87b9267/

I might try continue to share daily charts for a couple of days to prove to a few folk theres plenty profit to be made even in the bearest of markets.

DEB/BTC on Kucoin last night, broke my perceived support value of around 615 SATS and tumbled all the way to 500 at its worst, of course we got a beautiful bounce all the way up to nearly 700 SATS within 12 hours.
Theres 30% profit banked for 12 hours in the market.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/5b047f8da8a84/

WhiteMemento9 · 22-05-2018 8:47pm

I haven't really been keeping a close eye on the markets over the last week but I see Binance started trading TrueUSD (TUSD). I am currently mostly in Tether. Is it now perceived as a better option when you want to hold money in fiat? I am kinda leaning towards better the devil you know.

The fact they needed to add Trust to the name makes me even more suspicious about the whole thing

Chancer3001 · 22-05-2018 8:59pm

if buffett is so class at investing how come he didnt invest in bitcoin 5 years ago and making a fortune?

Shauny2010 · 22-05-2018 9:42pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

if buffett is so class at investing how come he didnt invest in bitcoin 5 years ago and making a fortune?

Or Amazon, Alphabet(Google), Tesla, Dell etc
See a trend here?
Buffet doesn't mention the pension funds he raided either. He's still agreedy person, he wouldn't tell anyone his real plans, you'll only ever hear about his investments after the event.

AlmightyCushion · 22-05-2018 9:57pm

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Or Amazon, Alphabet(Google), Tesla, Dell etc
See a trend here?
Buffet doesn't mention the pension funds he raided either. He's still agreedy person, he wouldn't tell anyone his real plans, you'll only ever hear about his investments after the event.

If he told every one what he was going to invest in before he invested, it would just drive up the price and the investment would cost him more.

Chancer3001 · 22-05-2018 9:59pm

Nah.

What he does is invest.

Then publicise it.

Then average joes barrel in cos he's class.

Price goes up

It's like YouTube's and crypto icos

AlmightyCushion · 22-05-2018 10:26pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Nah.

What he does is invest.

Then publicise it.

Then average joes barrel in cos he's class.

Price goes up

It's like YouTube's and crypto icos

Buffett is a buy and hold type investor. A short term increase in price after he's bought doesn't really affect him if he plans on holding the stock for 10+ years.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 22-05-2018 11:16pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Buffett is a buy and hold type investor. A short term increase in price after he's bought doesn't really affect him if he plans on holding the stock for 10+ years.

Ah.. so the hodlers are really just copying Buffet.

ZeroThreat · 22-05-2018 11:19pm

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Or Amazon, Alphabet(Google), Tesla, Dell etc
See a trend here?
Buffet doesn't mention the pension funds he raided either. He's still agreedy person, he wouldn't tell anyone his real plans, you'll only ever hear about his investments after the event.

hah, sounds like you're describing Ian Balina there.

cnocbui · 23-05-2018 7:33am

Chancer3001 wrote: »

if buffett is so class at investing how come he didnt invest in bitcoin 5 years ago and making a fortune?

He didn't invest in Amazon or Apple either, saying about the latter that he didn't invest in things he didn't understand - the whole tech sector being something he didn't 'understand' at the time.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 23-05-2018 8:31pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

I might try continue to share daily charts for a couple of days to prove to a few folk theres plenty profit to be made even in the bearest of markets.

DEB/BTC on Kucoin last night, broke my perceived support value of around 615 SATS and tumbled all the way to 500 at its worst, of course we got a beautiful bounce all the way up to nearly 700 SATS within 12 hours.
Theres 30% profit banked for 12 hours in the market.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/5b047f8da8a84/

Not sure if these charts are much interest to anyone but today was a great day to increase holdings in BTC, ETH and even NEO. Alerts were pinging all day.

Here's one of my 1st, my perceived base support was broken at about 0.00171ETH, and took a dive to 0.0016 ETH where I had some buys hit.

We got a bounce within 4 hours as usual past the last base support to .00176 ETH. So up to an easy 10% for very little time in the market here.

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/5b05cd5e8fdf5/

So that's 10% Monday, 25 - 30% Tuesday and another 10% today. It's not a bad racket....

Kuva · 23-05-2018 9:04pm

cnocbui wrote: »

He didn't invest in Amazon or Apple either, saying about the latter that he didn't invest in things he didn't understand - the whole tech sector being something he didn't 'understand' at the time.

Has 46 Billion of Apple shares now, Berkshires biggest stock, holding since 2016 and is sorry he didn't buy Google and Amazon.

Said Bitcoin was "probably rat poison squared".

Buying bitcoins

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