The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

spookwoman · 23-05-2018 06:23PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I think the pro-repeal side are unlucky in that they have the crazy feminist SJW types on their side, and they're turn off for a lot of people. Just type repeal the 8th in to twitter and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about.

I agree there are some that I have muted as well on twitter but quite a few of them have been the ones who have had to make that trip to the uk for whatever reason.
I find the No side ones that talk about compassion out one side of theirs mouths and then scream baby killers out the other side to women who have had to travel for rape and ffa are the worst

Ave Sodalis · 23-05-2018 06:24PM

pleas advice wrote: »

There would be riots if the government rowed back on the proposed legislation, they know this. If the referendum passes it's pretty much guaranteed to be 12 weeks unrestricted, whatever about the exact wording after that. It's delusional to think otherwise

There will not be riots :rolleyes:

Maybe, maybe not. There probably will. However, with enough lobbying, it can change. If the No side put half as much effort into lobbying a change to the proposed legislation as they put into making up new lies and manipulations, the government would have to listen.

You cannot have change with a No vote. Voting No will not change the proposed legislation.

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 06:26PM

Irish Time Opinion wrote:

This is the lived reality of the Eighth Amendment. It means that a woman who becomes pregnant by rape in Ireland must have the baby. It means that couples who receive the devastating news of a fatal foetal abnormality must take the lonely journey to England if they wish to end the pregnancy. It means, as the High Court heard in the case of Miss P in 2014, that doctors can find themselves standing at the bedside of a clinically dead and pregnant young woman with a copy of the Constitution in their hands, trying to figure out if they are breaking the law by switching off life support.

Straight from the Yes campaign playbook.

I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases

fxotoole · 23-05-2018 06:26PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I think the pro-repeal side are unlucky in that they have the crazy feminist SJW types on their side, and they're turn off for a lot of people. Just type repeal the 8th in to twitter and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about.

Conversely, the No side have bible bashing Iona institute and Life Institute nut jobs

BabyCheeses · 23-05-2018 06:26PM

Field east wrote: »

The Majority of TDs’ are for are pro choice/ abortion . A lot of them are driven for populist reasons. RTE are covertly for a ‘Yes ‘ outcome. A number of their programmers/ presenters have shown obvious bias. The citizens assembly was ‘packed’ - some members were not correctly selected.

For those in doubt, those who plan to vote ‘yes’ but are uneasy in doing so , the undecided and those who have decided not to cast their vote , then consider voting ‘No’ for the following reason. If you vote ‘No’the government will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with legislation that is more acceptable than what is currently on the table. If you vote ‘Yes’ then that opportunity is gone forever:.
Remember this is what happened one time when the nation rejected a Gov. Proposal in relation to an EU matter. The Gov went back and redrafted the proposal and it passed second time around.

I’m very wary of the old adage they ‘ empty vessels make the most
Noise’

Vote no for Seanad reform!

Any day now...

Ave Sodalis · 23-05-2018 06:27PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

You didn't answer the question. Will one vote change the result?

You didn't answer the question: if we all had the attitude that one vote will not change the result, why bother any of us going to vote?

You see, one person will not change a thing, but one person as part of a collective, will. Considering there's only a Yes or a No, every person will be part of a collective and therefore every vote will matter.

Huntergonzo · 23-05-2018 06:27PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I think the pro-repeal side are unlucky in that they have the crazy feminist SJW types on their side, and they're turn off for a lot of people. Just type repeal the 8th in to twitter and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about.

Sadly this is the case, however the No side also has it's fair share of nutbags, just look at John Waters, Maria Steen and of course the catholic church.

To be fair, I'd imagine the majority of voters on both sides are just normal people, but there is delirious element to both sides for sure.

Billy86 · 23-05-2018 06:27PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Straight from the No campaign playbook.

I must do better to ignore young women dying
I must do better to ignore young women dying
I must do better to ignore young women dying
I must do better to ignore young women dying

You know, if we're laying it all out there.

Ave Sodalis · 23-05-2018 06:27PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Straight from the Yes campaign playbook.

I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases

Hard laws have forced hard cases.

bootpaws · 23-05-2018 06:28PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I think the pro-repeal side are unlucky in that they have the crazy feminist SJW types on their side, and they're turn off for a lot of people. Just type repeal the 8th in to twitter and you'll get a good idea of what I'm talking about.

I think the Vote No side are unlucky in that they have the support of the Catholic Church, an organisation with a history of putting pregnant women in homes, treating them as slaves, and giving away their babies to strangers abroad. Not to mention those who never made it that far, and were dumped in septic tanks.

But yeah, a few overzealous young women frustrated with having to fight for the most basic right of body autonomy are really the issue here.

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 06:28PM

Irish Times Opinion wrote:

‘What an appalling prospect for the future generation,” this column remarked in late August 1983, when it was becoming clear that the Irish people were about to vote to write a ban on abortion into the Constitution.

As a bitter campaign drew to a close, The Irish Times imagined, as did others in the liberal minority, a dark scenario in which the Eighth Amendment, far from offering the final word on abortion, would instead prolong and amplify a national trauma.

They were the "liberal minority" then. Now they might well be the liberal majority.

To the victor goes the chance to rewrite history.

DickSwiveller · 23-05-2018 06:28PM

spookwoman wrote: »

I agree there are some that I have muted as well on twitter but quite a few of them have been the ones who have had to make that trip to the uk for whatever reason.
I find the No side ones that talk about compassion out one side of theirs mouths and then scream baby killers out the other side to women who have had to travel for rape and ffa are the worst

oh for ffs everytime I mention something about the repeal side someone comes back at me and says "well the No side did this". The No side has a lot of quacks. I'm just making the point about the repeal side because they are very vocal online

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 06:29PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Hard laws have forced hard cases.

Indeed. And they make sure to focus the hell on it.

Trojan Horse. A seemingly effective Trojan Horse. But a Trojan Horse nonetheless

ohnonotgmail · 23-05-2018 06:29PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Straight from the Yes campaign playbook.

I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases
I must do better to focus on the hard cases

I probably shouldn't be surprised that somebody from the No side can show such complete disregard for the suffering of pregnant women. LoveBoth my arse.

spookwoman · 23-05-2018 06:31PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

oh for ffs everytime I mention something about the repeal side someone comes back at me and says "well the No side did this". The No side has a lot of quacks. I'm just making the point about the repeal side because they are very vocal online

I was pointing out they are vocal for a reason, a reason that has had an a direct effect on them.

Ave Sodalis · 23-05-2018 06:32PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

oh for ffs everytime I mention something about the repeal side someone comes back at me and says "well the No side did this". The No side has a lot of quacks. I'm just making the point about the repeal side because they are very vocal online

Because you are not addressing it. The No side have been acting just about a deplorably as you can act in a referendum. They are also very vocal online, which is why they had a meltdown about the advertisement thing. It just comes across as though you are completely ignoring that to focus on minor things the Yes side are doing.

TL;DR- it seems like you're pushing an agenda and people are calling you out on it.

DickSwiveller · 23-05-2018 06:32PM

spookwoman wrote: »

I was pointing out they are vocal for a reason, a reason that has had an a direct affect on them.

I doubt it has had an affect on any of these people. A lot of them are men.

Billy86 · 23-05-2018 06:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I probably shouldn't be surprised that somebody from the No side can show such complete disregard for the suffering of pregnant women. LoveBoth my arse.

It's an interesting insight into the mindset of many of them though, that they get bent out of shape by "hard cases" like women dying, or children and the disabled being raped: "Pretend the problem isn't there, and it becomes as if it isn't there at all!"

Ave Sodalis · 23-05-2018 06:34PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Indeed. And they make sure to focus the hell on it.

Trojan Horse. A seemingly effective Trojan Horse. But a Trojan Horse nonetheless

So what do you propose people do about it? Ignore the hard cases? Despite the fact it's the hard cases that highlighted the bad law and is the reason any of this is happening in the first place? Should we all stick our head in the sand and pretend it's not happening?

Wrongway1985 · 23-05-2018 06:36PM

Field east wrote: »

For those in doubt, those who plan to vote ‘yes’ but are uneasy in doing so , the undecided and those who have decided not to cast their vote , then consider voting ‘No’ for the following reason. If you vote ‘No’the government will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with legislation that is more acceptable than what is currently on the table. If you vote ‘Yes’ then that opportunity is gone forever:

I brought this up earlier it is with blind certainty to suggest the government will come back with legislation that YOU might agree with.

What are your issues over what is proposed, what would be acceptable to you?

Field east wrote: »

I’m very wary of the old adage they ‘ empty vessels make the most Noise’

This in relation to women's bodies used as vessels or the vessels they must use to gain access to the foreign hospitals.

spookwoman · 23-05-2018 06:36PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I doubt it has had an affect on any of these people. A lot of them are men.

How would you know if has had no effect on them

bootpaws · 23-05-2018 06:37PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I doubt it has had an affect on any of these people. A lot of them are men.

Don't you think men can be impacted by laws that require doctors to leave their girlfriends/wives/sisters/mothers etc waiting to die before they can legally offer them healthcare?

eviltwin · 23-05-2018 06:38PM

I can see why no voters are sick of the hard cases.

It must be hard being reminded so often that you are the kind of person who belives it's okay to force a rape victim or women with a ffa to carry that pregnancy to term.

Addle · 23-05-2018 06:38PM

I really don't like the correlation some campaigners make between the marriage referendum and the repeal the 8th referendum.
Just no comparisons between them at all.

munsterlegend · 23-05-2018 06:39PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Disgusting. You have no idea what people's motivations are, what traumas they or their loved ones have suffered.[/QUOTE

Save your outrage for something more worthy. People think abortion solves a problem, in most cases it creates even more trauma. A doctor on the news today said rape cases, which are tragic account for a negligible number of pregnancies yet yes campaigners raise it every time and demonise anyone who raises the percentage of Down syndrome diagnosed babies aborted. Now that's disgusting.

ArmaniJeanss · 23-05-2018 06:40PM

So frustrating on the 38 bus home hearing two lads (teenagers, marginal whether they'd be old enough to vote) reading through some No material and talking about how terrible the mechanics of abortion are, how babies can yawn at 9 weeks, reading out verbatim quotes from people with grandiose titles re the College of Obstetricians. And basically coming to the conclusion that it's a terrible business altogether and you'd have to be a psycho to be voting yes.
Have heard similar stuff on the bus before the last few weeks.

I'll give this to you No side people, you've played the leaflet/poster/information game very well.

Ave Sodalis · 23-05-2018 06:40PM

Addle wrote: »

I really don't like the correlation some campaigners make between the marriage referendum and the repeal the 8th referendum.
Just no comparisons between them at all.

Both of them are a human rights issue.

munsterlegend · 23-05-2018 06:40PM

Addle wrote: »

I really don't like the correlation some campaigners make between the marriage referendum and the repeal the 8th referendum.
Just no comparisons between them at all.

I totally agree - they are completely separate issues.

eviltwin · 23-05-2018 06:41PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Disgusting. You have no idea what people's motivations are, what traumas they or their loved ones have suffered.[/QUOTE

Save your outrage for something more worthy. People think abortion solves a problem, in most cases it creates even more trauma. A doctor on the news today said rape cases, which are tragic account for a negligible number of pregnancies yet yes campaigners raise it every time and demonise anyone who raises the percentage of Down syndrome diagnosed babies aborted. Now that's disgusting.

What do you mean by it causes more trauma in most cases? What evidence do you have for this?

DickSwiveller · 23-05-2018 06:41PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Both of them are a human rights issue.

Human rights don't exist

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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