The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

NuMarvel · 22-05-2018 08:18PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's always hard to know with canvasses people can lie or tell the truth.
I am seen by people as being as level about this. I won't fall out with you or block you on the internet if your voting Yes/No but I am surprised as some of the people voting No.

In my experience of canvasses on two referendums, people who don't want to tell you their position will say so. Very few people lie.

RobertKK wrote: »

So it will be Simon Harris v Peadar Toibin, after Cora Sherlock refused to debate for the No side.

Fixed that for you.

DOS · 22-05-2018 08:19PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Regarding the guy who was canvassing in Laois. The Laois/Offaly constituency voted 56.81% Yes which would be disappointing in my view for the area which would have a lot young people living in commuter areas!

A rural core but as you say a huge commuter population growth. Traditionally Laois/Offaly is conservative.

Guy:Incognito · 22-05-2018 08:19PM

Macha wrote: »

If this anecdote is true, it is extremely rare and no doubt she actually did know but was in denial. As a young woman, it's drilled into you not to get pregnant. To miss 4 periods in a row and not suspect a thing is practically impossible.

Assuming she's a normal healthy girl with regular periods, not using birth control that prevents them.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 08:19PM

DOS wrote: »

Well I'm not too concerned I speak the truth. There are 27,000 people in Portlaoise. I attended a rural CoI church. And masses are full in Portlaoise. Fr. Paddy Byrne is a big draw. As said maybe some who said they'd vote No will vote Yes too. It could depend on who has the bigger hidden vote.

They say Father Byrne does a good long mass. Three hours he does, on a good night.

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 08:20PM

pjohnson wrote: »

And that meant Cora had to run away?

Do we know why Cora couldn't make it?

antiskeptic · 22-05-2018 08:20PM

Macha wrote: »

First of all, it shows how little you think of women if you think women get abortions after 12 weeks for the reasons you mention above.

Sorry - genuinely. I thought I was being gracious.

Abstract
Most respondents to a survey of abortion patients in 1987 said that more than one factor had contributed to their decision to have an abortion; the mean number of reasons was nearly four. Three-quarters said that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities, about two-thirds said they could not afford to have a child and half said they did not want to be a single parent or had relationship problems.

I've bolded the relevant bits:

Work: promotion comes when you're 13 weeks in. You were a bit hit and miss on the idea but now the promotion tips it.

School: you fail your exams and are faced with the prospect of a repeat year.

Not afford: you lose you job

Relationship problems: you find out that your partner is having an affair at 18 weeks

I would call it an extremely misogynistic viewpoint. But your signature also suggests you only see women as a 'womb'.

Your viewpoint above suggest you see women as sugar and spice and all things nice

And you should know by now that according to the proposed law, abortion after 12 weeks would only be allowed if two medical practitioners (one of which must be an obstetrician) certify three things:

Before we look at the three things can we look at one thing? If a women 18 weeks along can't get an abortion here and she wants one, we are told she will get one in England.

How long before the bring-em-home argument is dusted of and presented to us. Only it won't be us. This time: no Constitutional obstacle.

Cast Iron Protection. I think not. This is how it works: prise it open with however thin a wedge you can. The keep pushing.

So I am saying that only a misogynist would assume that women would have abortions after 12 weeks for the above reasons, and I am saying that it cannot happen under the proposed legislation.

See above.

Hurrache · 22-05-2018 08:21PM

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

After Sherlock pulled out...

One way of not having to worry about needing an abortion anyway. Isn't that the method some posters advocate?

munsterlegend · 22-05-2018 08:22PM

Macha wrote: »

If this anecdote is true, it is extremely rare and no doubt she actually did know but was in denial. As a young woman, it's drilled into you not to get pregnant. To miss 4 periods in a row and not suspect a thing is practically impossible.

If this anecdote is true?? Girls have gone full term and delivered babies and not even known they were pregnant until it was happening. It's rare but does happen. Anyway thankfully any legislation in Ireland will be limited to 12 weeks save for certain circumstances.

vicwatson · 22-05-2018 08:22PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Do we know why Cora couldn't make it?

How would “we” know? You might know

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 08:22PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

Changing what other posts is not fixing something. It makes what someone else posted inaccurate.

Macha · 22-05-2018 08:22PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Assuming she's a normal healthy girl with regular periods, not using birth control that prevents them.

Woman not girl.

Er...it's not like missing your period is the only symptom of being pregnant, especially when you get half way there.

Like I said, extremely rare.

22-05-2018 08:22PM

DOS wrote: »

Well I'm not too concerned I speak the truth. There are 27,000 people in Portlaoise. I attended a rural CoI church. And masses are full in Portlaoise. Fr. Paddy Byrne is a big draw. As said maybe some who said they'd vote No will vote Yes too. It could depend on who has the bigger hidden vote.

Hoe do you feel about some of your bishops support for repeal

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 08:23PM

vicwatson wrote: »

How would “we” know? You might know

Why would I know?

NuMarvel · 22-05-2018 08:23PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Do we know why Cora couldn't make it?

Maybe she picked up the same strain of "bronchitis" that Breda O'Brien had before the marriage equality referendum?

DOS · 22-05-2018 08:23PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They say Father Byrne does a good long mass. Three hours he does, on a good night.

Fr. Ted joke.. How original

It was Fr. Clippet!

fxotoole · 22-05-2018 08:23PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They say Father Byrne does a good long mass. Three hours he does, on a good night.

He really knows how to work the altar. His chalice work is flawless.

freshpopcorn · 22-05-2018 08:23PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

In my experience of canvasses on two referendums, people who don't want to tell you their position will say so. Very few people lie.

We have different experiences then. I am not saying it's common but more than some relies. I live in a small town for example and people sort of lie more not to have the whole town talking about them but if they were in a city and a strange asked them they'd feel more comfortable saying Yes/No.
I know a man for example who is Voting No and his partner is out canvasing for a Yes vote and writing posts about the brilliant men in her life who are voting Yes for her.

vicwatson · 22-05-2018 08:24PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

If this anecdote is true?? Girls have gone full term and delivered babies and not even known they were pregnant until it was happening. It's rare but does happen. Anyway thankfully any legislation in Ireland will be limited to 12 weeks save for certain circumstances.

Only if the 8th is repealed and you did say you were voting no right?

Kiwi in IE · 22-05-2018 08:24PM

http://www.thejournal.ie/doctors-savita-halappanavar-4027207-May2018/

Arulkumaran has also clarified claims around Savita’s death, saying that the Eighth Amendment was a major factor. He refuted claims that sepsis was the only cause of her death, as has been claimed by some during the course of the referendum debate.

I’ll just leave this here! Although I’m quite certain there is no one on the planet, including those who attempted to push the propaganda about her death bring due only to medical misadventure, who truly believed that her death was not caused by the 8th Amendment.

Do the ‘8th doesn’t harm women’ crowd have anything to add?

I’m sure they probably think they know better than this man!

Macha · 22-05-2018 08:24PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

If this anecdote is true?? Girls have gone full term and delivered babies and not even known they were pregnant until it was happening. It's rare but does happen. Anyway thankfully any legislation in Ireland will be limited to 12 weeks save for certain circumstances.

Haha, don't get me started on those cases.

Practically all of them are, in reality, in total denial that they're pregnant.

jjmcclure · 22-05-2018 08:25PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how many would be acceptable collateral damage to you?

My point proved. Hearsay and scaremongering from the YES side.

DOS · 22-05-2018 08:26PM

fxotoole wrote: »

He really knows how to work the altar. His chalice work is flawless.

The Yes boys sharing nervous giggles before another catastrophic Prime Time debate

22-05-2018 08:28PM

jjmcclure wrote: »

My point proved. Hearsay and scaremongering from the YES side.

So your fine forcing rape victims carry to term

fxotoole · 22-05-2018 08:30PM

DOS wrote: »

The Yes boys sharing nervous giggles before another catastrophic Prime Time debate

Won't matter either way, as most people have made their minds up at this stage

Huntergonzo · 22-05-2018 08:30PM

Unseenfacts.com & Referendumwatch.com

Just 2 of the staunch Pro-Life websites I've seen pop up on Facebook over the last week, some even maliciously try to parade as impartial intitally before exposing themselves.

Who actually funds/creates this drivel? And does abybody actually fall for these spurious transient websites?

jjmcclure · 22-05-2018 08:31PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

So your fine forcing rape victims carry to term

You should read my first post, and what does that have to do with women dying?

DarkScar · 22-05-2018 08:32PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/doctors-savita-halappanavar-4027207-May2018/

Arulkumaran has also clarified claims around Savita’s death, saying that the Eighth Amendment was a major factor. He refuted claims that sepsis was the only cause of her death, as has been claimed by some during the course of the referendum debate.

The report he wrote on the case doesn't blame the 8th one single bit.
"The investigation team is aware that clinical circumstances can and have arisen in Ireland where a termination of pregnancy is an appropriate and necessary clinical step in the medical treatment and care of a patient."
A termination 100% should have been performed under EXISTING legal precedent that had been there for TWENTY YEARS.
Debunked completely yet again.

munsterlegend · 22-05-2018 08:32PM

fxotoole wrote: »

I'm not arguing that more abortions won't take place is Yes wins.

I'm arguing that nothing changes if No wins.

You've missed the point completely

Well less abortions take place than if yes wins. If that's not a change as a result of no winning then what is.

22-05-2018 08:33PM

jjmcclure wrote: »

You should read my first post, and what does that have to do with women dying?

Everything depending upon the victim.
And if your voting no then you are fine with them being forced to carry to term

DOS · 22-05-2018 08:34PM

fxotoole wrote: »

Won't matter either way, as most people have made their minds up at this stage

You don't know for definite. Either side could have a 'fail' moment..

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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