8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

20-05-2018 06:05PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Link please?

Hasn't been able to provide it to my knowledge, sure that this will be corrected if I missed it.

gmisk · 20-05-2018 06:09PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Hasn't been able to provide it to my knowledge, sure that this will be corrected if I missed it.

Yep I think it's been asked for multiple times and never been provided.

Her parents have however definitely advocated vocally for a yes vote
'Don't let what happened to us happen to other families': Savita's parents back Yes vote http://jrnl.ie/4023817

It wasnt me123 · 20-05-2018 06:13PM

Poll on RTE news

56 yes
24 no
rest undecided or don't know or not saying

last tuesday poll
52 yes
24 no
19 undecided
5 not voting

Looking good for Yes

Just had lunch with female family.

3 yes / 2 no
Both no's were on religious grounds. 3 yes were definites (myself included)

gmisk · 20-05-2018 06:14PM

BTW there are 'no' posters with Savita on them as well....pretty horrible tbh

https://goo.gl/images/nkwTJg

It wasnt me123 · 20-05-2018 06:16PM

Neyite wrote: »

Oh yes! Now that would focus the hard of thinking...

Doc: "you've an infected appendix"
Man: "ok, when are you going to take it out"
Doc: "what's your wife's due date again? Well, we could probably take it out about 10 weeks before that at the earliest"
Man: "whaaat?? but... but... I'll die!!"
Doc: "Ah no. You are only at risk of dying. It's not imminent yet. Come back in when you are septic and we'll give you an antibiotic then"
Man: "???"
Doc: "you can get on a plane and go to a hospital in another country at your own expense, if you are well enough to travel. But you'll have to choose your own clinic. I can't refer you."
Man"???"
Man" Well, can I get anything for the excruciating pain??"
Doc: "Certainly. Here's a prescription for paracetamol. It's all I can prescribe. One box though."

This should be on a poster, that would focus the minds.

Repeal all the way - medical treatment for all when they need it, regardless.

freshpopcorn · 20-05-2018 06:26PM

Quick question. If Ireland repeal's the Eighth amendment and legislation is passed. Where will abortions take place?
Will it be at a hospital(Certain one's?)
Visiting your GP?
Or a clinic such as Marie Stopes?
Or a mixture of the above.
I take it in certain cases a hospital visit will be needed but others visiting GP would all that would be required.

Igotadose · 20-05-2018 06:30PM

gmisk wrote: »

BTW there are 'no' posters with Savita on them as well....pretty horrible tbh

https://goo.gl/images/nkwTJg

Every time I think the no campaign can't sink any lower...

In good news, I have a new poster to put up in my yard to replace the one that was stolen by the No campaigners the other night. And we'll be handing out leaflets all week in town. All good.

Personally not convinced that we can predict any kind of outcomeyet. I still think it'll be close, and I'm worried that the No side will get even more aggressive and violent as the days wear on. I think they believe they're going to lose and will pull out all the stops. Fellow campaigners told me about a canvassing drive yesterday in Tralee, the no campaign had blocked the roundabout into town with banners so you couldn't see, the Guards ended up being called, whether they did anything I don't know.

Now would be the worst possible time to become complacent.

Annasopra · 20-05-2018 06:34PM

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

I'd be the same as you, I wouldn't have the confidence to do door-to-do but I see on Facebook 'Together For Yes' are looking for campaigners for their information stands so that would be worth looking into.

It's a pity that many people lack self confidence like this when they probably might great canvassers.

Dressing gown · 20-05-2018 06:38PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Hasn't been able to provide it to my knowledge, sure that this will be corrected if I missed it.

You won’t get a link except for one from 2013. He was involved in a six figure settlement with the HSE in 2016 over Savitas deaths which no likely contained a gagging order on publicly commenting on her death.

SusieBlue · 20-05-2018 06:41PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question. If Ireland repeal's the Eighth amendment and legislation is passed. Where will abortions take place?
Will it be at a hospital(Certain one's?)
Visiting your GP?
Or a clinic such as Marie Stopes?
Or a mixture of the above.
I take it in certain cases a hospital visit will be needed but others visiting GP would all that would be required.

It’s likely to be a GP led service. I can’t imagine there’ll be enough scope to require individual clinics.
Surgical abortions will require a hospital stay and will likely occur in maternity hospitals, and will fall under the umbrella of maternal care.
That’s how it works in every other legalised country, at least.

Annasopra · 20-05-2018 06:44PM

thebull85 wrote: »

Why does the anger seem more prevalent on the repeal side though? Why are they angry?

Wouldn't you be angry if you were a woman in this country? Angry at Savitas death? Angry at Michelle Hartes death? Angry at the shabby treatment of Miss X, Miss P, Amanda Mellet? Angry that the 8th forces you to go abroad for healthcare? Angry that women like Siobhan Donohoe and Gaye Edwards are forced to leave the state? Angry that the architects of 8th never wanted legal contraception in the first place? Angry that the 8th meant a woman was taken to court by the HSE to force a caesarean? Angry that our laws say a woman whose child has a fatal foetal anomaly has to be given the option of adoption? Angry that young women who immport abortion pills could face 14 years in jail? Angry that Savita and Women from TFMR Ireland are sneered at by no campaigners? Angry that Irish healthcare providers often cannot provide appropriate aftercare? Angry at every single in her shoes story? Angry that the 8th is a barbaric instrument failing Irish women.

As a man I am angry. Very angry that my friends and family have had to live under this for 35 years. And I can only imagine women's anger.

20-05-2018 06:52PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Wouldn't you be angry if you were a woman in this country? Angry at Savitas death? Angry at Michelle Hartes death? Angry at the shabby treatment of Miss X, Miss P, Amanda Mellet? Angry that the 8th forces you to go abroad for healthcare? Angry that women like Siobhan Donohoe and Gaye Edwards are forced to leave the state? Angry that the architects of 8th never wanted legal contraception in the first place? Angry that the 8th meant a woman was taken to court by the HSE to force a caesarean? Angry that our laws say a woman whose child has a fatal foetal anomaly has to be given the option of adoption? Angry that young women whomomport abortion pills could face 14 years in jail? Angry that Savita and Women from TFMR Ireland are sneered at by no campaigners? Angry that Irish healthcare providers often cannot provide appropriate aftercare? Angry at every single in her shoes story? Angry that the 8th is a barbaric instrument failing Irish women.

Wouldn't worry about that poster their constantly giving out about feminists and immigration. His first post on the thread about Ana Kriegels tragic death was to bet it was a immigrant who did it.
Their an example of some of the people on the no side and what people they attract however.

Annasopra · 20-05-2018 06:54PM

spookwoman wrote: »

Pro life woman says Rape happens do well allow it to happen by having rape rooms.
It was her responve when interviewer said the yes side could say abortion already happen but in the uk

What? A rape room?

nozzferrahhtoo · 20-05-2018 06:54PM

Sorry for the delay in replying. Your misuse of the QUOTE label made me miss your post for a moment. Though I see you appear to have answered all my questions with a question, thus not really answering anything at all.

Just her wrote: »

Can I ask of any other examples of these life forms which you don't believe are as valuable as others, please? For example, are you talking about grass, trees, plants etc, that never ever will attain sentience? Or are there any examples of life forms which are just about to become sentient which you see as of lesser value and which are therefore in your opinion not to be assigned rights?

I am not sure I understand what you are asking me, but I think my answer to that question would be much the same as most peoples. And you could get that answer by imagining you are running out of a burning building and you can save only one of two animals on the way out.

Generally people's answer to that question falls in line with my suggestions about sentience. In that most people will save the animal that is of a species more capable of higher levels of sentience. They would save a spider before a potted plant, a mouse before a spider, a dog before a mouse, a monkey before a dog, a great ape before a monkey.

You can usually fit any 2 animals in and the answer people will give will pretty much always, phobias aside, fall on the sentience line perfectly. So much so in fact that many people will often save ONE example of the higher sentience of MULTIPLE examples of the lower. Saving, perhaps, a single dog before a box full of mice. Or a single mouse over a box full of spiders.

Just her wrote: »

I know you've said before that it is not sentient before a certain amount of weeks and you are concerned with the now, apologies if that is not exactly what you said but I believe that was the gist of it, but my question is there any other life form you would put in the same category, not assign rights to, that was just on the verge of sentience?

I still do not understand the question but something "on the verge of sentience" is therefore not sentient, and my personal position would therefore be the same about them as I was saying about a 10 week old fetus. If it does not have the faculty of sentience, never has had it, and is a period of time away from ever getting it..... then I simply see no reason to afford it moral and ethical concerns.

January · 20-05-2018 06:56PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Wouldn't you be angry if you were a woman in this country? Angry at Savitas death? Angry at Michelle Hartes death? Angry at the shabby treatment of Miss X, Miss P, Amanda Mellet? Angry that the 8th forces you to go abroad for healthcare? Angry that women like Siobhan Donohoe and Gaye Edwards are forced to leave the state? Angry that the architects of 8th never wanted legal contraception in the first place? Angry that the 8th meant a woman was taken to court by the HSE to force a caesarean? Angry that our laws say a woman whose child has a fatal foetal anomaly has to be given the option of adoption? Angry that young women who immport abortion pills could face 14 years in jail? Angry that Savita and Women from TFMR Ireland are sneered at by no campaigners? Angry that Irish healthcare providers often cannot provide appropriate aftercare? Angry at every single in her shoes story? Angry that the 8th is a barbaric instrument failing Irish women.

As a man I am angry. Very angry that my friends and family have had to live under this for 35 years. And I can only imagine women's anger.

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.

Annasopra · 20-05-2018 06:59PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

One thing I have to regarding getting re-elected. Labour were the party who pushed for the marriage referendum and it didn't do much for them in the election!

True but FFers know pro life stances will get them re-elected.

Just her · 20-05-2018 07:08PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question. If Ireland repeal's the Eighth amendment and legislation is passed. Where will abortions take place?
Will it be at a hospital(Certain one's?)
Visiting your GP?
Or a clinic such as Marie Stopes?
Or a mixture of the above.
I take it in certain cases a hospital visit will be needed but others visiting GP would all that would be required.

According to this doctor they don't have the equipment needed and it's not done by GPs in any other European country

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20180328/282097752255166

iguana · 20-05-2018 07:10PM

Junadl wrote: »

Why should the taxpayer have to fund your irresponsible actions?

Um. An abortion pill costs €80, one month of child benefit is €140. What exactly do you think costs the taxpayer more?

20-05-2018 07:11PM

Just her wrote: »

According to this doctor they don't have the equipment needed and it's not done by GPs in any other European country

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20180328/282097752255166

What equipment is required to prescribe pills?

Also from having worked in the medical software and devices industry as an engineer, they will purchase any equipment as required in my experience.

Dressing gown · 20-05-2018 07:12PM

January wrote: »

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.

Yeah I just lost the plot with my mum because she used some of the trigger words in the same sentence as abortion. Full on tears and tantrum like a child. Weeping for the women of Ireland made to feel shame for trying to do what is best for them.

I would be a terrible canvasser I’d probably try to shake people into their senses. I’ve never felt this strongly about anything.

Igotadose · 20-05-2018 07:13PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

As a man I am angry. Very angry that my friends and family have had to live under this for 35 years. And I can only imagine women's anger.

The women I know campaigning aren't angry. Heck, *I'm* more angry. I keep getting gently reminded to 'not engage the no bots.'

Here's this guys opinion: If they're angry, they've freakin' got a RIGHT to be angry. There's nothing wrong with it, get off your misogynistic small horse and pay attention to what's being said, not what you want to hear. Tired of hearing guys (and sadly other other women) using that 'you're just so angry' and 'let it go' crap versus women. They've a right to be angry. It's a natural emotion.

The no side, they're the ones stealing crap, knocking over tables, hounding and threatening people. Rageful.

Which, as I understand it, is better behavior than it was 30 years ago where the violence was more widespread - all from the No side.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-05-2018 07:14PM

DarkScar wrote: »

Just wondering on this then, if you drop abortion pills in a pregnant woman's tea you are guilty of... nothing at all apparently?

Giving anyone a drug of any kind without their consent is a crime.

Ironically though, if you are a doctor and the patient is pregnant then her consent is not needed for any treatment you consider necessary - because of the 8th.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-05-2018 07:16PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

A friend of mine sent me a snap of a mass leaflet in Clare. They were putting on a special mass praying for a No vote.

An RC church in Dublin I go past every day has big signs up for "Prayer Vigils for Life" :rolleyes:

Average age at them yokes must be 80+

20-05-2018 07:16PM

iguana wrote: »

Um. An abortion pill costs €80, one month of child benefit is €140. What exactly do you think costs the taxpayer more?

We had a similar argument from another poster who also believes that in her opinion people on social welfare should be sterilised when they have had two kids so their taxes aren't spent on children's allowance. Love both as long as it doesn't cost me money?

iguana · 20-05-2018 07:17PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Wouldn't you be angry if you were a woman in this country? Angry at Savitas death? Angry at Michelle Hartes death? Angry at the shabby treatment of Miss X, Miss P, Amanda Mellet? Angry that the 8th forces you to go abroad for healthcare? Angry that women like Siobhan Donohoe and Gaye Edwards are forced to leave the state? Angry that the architects of 8th never wanted legal contraception in the first place? Angry that the 8th meant a woman was taken to court by the HSE to force a caesarean? Angry that our laws say a woman whose child has a fatal foetal anomaly has to be given the option of adoption? Angry that young women who immport abortion pills could face 14 years in jail? Angry that Savita and Women from TFMR Ireland are sneered at by no campaigners? Angry that Irish healthcare providers often cannot provide appropriate aftercare? Angry at every single in her shoes story? Angry that the 8th is a barbaric instrument failing Irish women.

As a man I am angry. Very angry that my friends and family have had to live under this for 35 years. And I can only imagine women's anger.

I'm beyond livid at this. I'm so glad I don't have a daughter, I'd be going out of my mind with the worry at the thought of a No vote. I know that my son could still be affected in the future as the 8th hurts many men too, especially the father's of foetuses with FFAs. But I really don't know how parents with daughters are coping.

Cantona's Collars · 20-05-2018 07:22PM

There's a Yes poster on one pole down my way, underneath somebody wrote on the blank side of a No poster something along the lines of "If you loved her vote No".

FFS!!

So if doctors said your wife/partner could die without an abortion would you say "sure I love her,let her die?"

DOS · 20-05-2018 07:24PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

An RC church in Dublin I go past every day has big signs up for "Prayer Vigils for Life" :rolleyes:

Average age at them yokes must be 80+

It always amazes me how the progressive liberals who strive to create a society of rights and equality always show their true colours by comments like the ageist one above.

Surely a person's age is irrelevant, like gender, sexuality etc?

spookwoman · 20-05-2018 07:27PM

DOS wrote: »

It always amazes me how the progressive liberals who strive to create a society of rights and equality always show their true colours by comments like the ageist one above.

Surely a person's age is irrelevant, like gender, sexuality etc?

Unfortunately those women are probably the same ones that would have and may have shipped off their fallen daughters to the laundry

20-05-2018 07:28PM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

There's a Yes poster on one pole down my way, underneath somebody wrote on the blank side of a No poster something along the lines of "If you loved her vote No".

FFS!!

So if doctors said your wife/partner could die without an abortion would you say "sure I love her,let her die?"

Only if mentally ill or they wanted rid of their partner.

Other than this the person who wrote it would be on the first plane over to the UK begging them to give their partner the required medical treatment they campaigned so strongly to keep out of their country. Or be online trying to source pills.

Some on the no side have an issue with abortion, others just don't want it in good old Catholic Ireland and are happy to have the escape route.

DOS · 20-05-2018 07:29PM

On a casual read of this thread one would assume No voters are truly evil and, the aggressive ones who take posters down and are ready to assault you. And Yes voters are the opposite. Anyone with their cognitive functions would see this thread for the propaganda and back slapping it is.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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