8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Just her wrote: »

It wasn't a joke but, I've confused the point by saying she was a comedian, she's an actress perhaps comedian too but anyway it wasn't part of a comedy routine. Lena Dunham, I've dug it out, she actually said she wishes she had an abortion to experience it, she had a hysterectomy so its not possible now

It was a joke. A joke in poor taste, which Lena Dunham deeply regrets.

I truly hope a distasteful joke on my part won't diminish the amazing work of all the women who participated. My words were spoken from a sort of "delusional girl" persona I often inhabit, a girl who careens between wisdom and ignorance (that's what my TV show is too) and it didn't translate. That's my fault. I would never, ever intentionally trivialize the emotional and physical challenges of terminating a pregnancy.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOQ0L8vl9gs/?utm_source=ig_embed

She has unreservedly apologised. Unlike the two U.S. Senators.

SusieBlue wrote: »

Firstly, I’d like to see a link to see how and why that woman is planning on doing that.

Secondly, no I don’t think it’s acceptable for a woman to do that, but I still don’t think it’s a legitimate reason to take the choice away from every other woman.

There will be a small minority who abuse every system.
Do we abolish social welfare because a tiny portion of the country are dole scrounging wasters?
No, because we’d be putting people in need at risk.
Do we abolish medical cards because a small portion of the country take the p*ss out of them by clogging up the GP office every time they have a sore finger?
No, because we’d be putting people in need at risk.

It’s the exact same for abortion.

I’d finish by saying that a woman who would do such a thing is not suitable material to be trusted with the responsibility of rearing another human being.
Are you honestly saying that a woman like HER should be forced to be a mother to a poor innocent baby?
That doesn’t seem very pro-life to me.

Yeah that's what I said, you didn't twist anything at all there now. Youre first two lines would have sufficed, saved you having to think how to twist things about, or maybe it comes easy enough to you.

Just her wrote: »

Question to yes voters. To those of you who say you truly believe the foetus has no right to life, is not sentient, its a woman's body and choice what to do with it: there was an American comedian who is extremely Pro choice and came out with how she would like to get pregnant in order to get an abortion. How do you honestly feel about that and why? For those of you who think the foetus is worth little to nothing. I'm not talking to people who have been talking on here about difficult cases, I'm talking to people who have openly made the foetus or as I consider it baby out to be worthless and have made out it has no right to life whatsoever.

There was a woman in the US who filmed her abortion. She didn't get pregnant just to have one but she did have an abortion. She felt that she needed to show that it's perfectly ok and nothing to be ashamed of. So she filmed herself getting one. She was laughing and joking throughout.
One of the things that jumped out about it was the condemnation she got. People were calling her disgusting for laughing during it. But here's the thing. Pretty much everyone who felt she was acting badly thought she should be acting differently. I'd imagine most would want her to be ashamed.
If it was a gynaecological exam or a colonoscopy or anything else people might say filming was a bit inappropriate but they wouldn't have said her attitude was wrong.

Here's the thing. There's nothing she should be ashamed about. She went in for a very routine, very safe procedure (In the US more people die from colonoscopies than die from abortions). It's also common. You probably know women who have had terminations. They won't tell you because of the shame that they are forced to carry.

A lot of prolifers want women to feel ashamed for what they've done. That's part of the strategy. For years it worked but it's not working anymore. Loads of women are coming forward and telling their stories. The shame will disappear. It'll get less and less as more and more women step up.

Overheal wrote: »

So nothing at all like what you said she said.

Alright.

Thanks.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Úna Bean Mhic Mhathúna She has been a dominant figure for over forty years as a founding member of Mna na hEireann (c. 1972 – late 1970s) and the Irish Housewives Union (c. 1980 – early 1990s). She has also been active with the Council for Family Rights (1980s), the Anti-Abortion Campaign (1983), the No Divorce Campaign (1996/97), Friends of Youth Defence (1990s) and Cóir (2000s).
Una grew up in Gurranabraher on the north side of Cork city. Her brother Larry White, a leading local activist with Saorise Éire (offshoot of Saor Éire), was shot dead by the Official IRA in 1975.

https://comeheretome.com/2012/07/29/una-bean-mhic-mhathuna-40-years-of-reactionary-politics/

In 1992 on Thomas Street and in 1994 at the Dáil, members of Youth Defence attacked and assaulted pro-choice campaigners, causing many injuries.
In 1998 an elderly member of staff of the Marie Stopes clinic on Blessington Street was physically attacked.
In 1999 members of staff of the Irish Family Planning Association were assaulted, the association’s clinic on Cathal Brugha Street was occupied by hundreds of Youth Defence supporters, and the IFPA’s director, Tony O’Brien, was continually harrassed.
Barret another member of YD has been know to attend rallies by Nazi-sympathiser group the NDP and Italian fascist organisation Forza Nuova.

http://www.thejournal.ie/justin-barrett-national-party-3089289-Nov2016/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/extreme-right-group-confirms-barrett-link-1.1098654

Just her wrote: »

Brain dead people don't come back to consciousness though, a foetus / baby does

A foetus doesn't make it to back consciousness if the pill or abortion happens before the 12 weeks because they never made it there in the first place

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It was a joke. A joke in poor taste, which Lena Dunham deeply regrets.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOQ0L8vl9gs/?utm_source=ig_embed

She has unreservedly apologised. Unlike the two U.S. Senators.

I'd apologize too if I'd said something that eagle going to wreck my career. No one took it up as a joke at the time

Just her wrote: »

Yeah I've seen pro choice argue amongst themselves on this, one saying no it's not right to abort because of down syndrome or cleft lip or gender, another lashing back with its all up to the woman and how dare you judge

I typed a reply to this and lost it so here goes my second try.

I have nothing against abortion. However there are places in the world where women have abortions because they want a son rather than a daughter. No I can think that it's a horrible reason to have one but still be ok with a woman having an abortion. Just because I don't mind abortion doesn't mean that I have to support every possible reason for having one.

Just as a pro life person can think that a woman shouldn't have an abortion yet be disgusted with a woman who has a baby she doesn't care about for selfish reasons. Being pro life doesn't mean agreeing with every single possible reason people have for having a kid.

Just her wrote: »

Question to yes voters. To those of you who say you truly believe the foetus has no right to life, is not sentient, its a woman's body and choice what to do with it: there was an American comedian who is extremely Pro choice and came out with how she would like to get pregnant in order to get an abortion. How do you honestly feel about that and why? For those of you who think the foetus is worth little to nothing. I'm not talking to people who have been talking on here about difficult cases, I'm talking to people who have openly made the foetus or as I consider it baby out to be worthless and have made out it has no right to life whatsoever.

I think it’s horrible.
I think some of the people who use their right to free speech use it to say horrible things too, doesn’t mean I’d deny them the right to free speech.

Even if her reasons are horrible, it’s her body and she has a right to choose whether it continues to support the fetus inside her or not.

I will also say that

A)with that sort of attitude, it sounds like forced & unwilling motherhood, of all the options, is the least desirable.

for every one of her there are how many hundred women that despite their best efforts, end up accidentally & unintentionally pregnant and want to get on with their lives without the massive upheaval that pregnancy and raising a child causes. The pro life side love to minimize that upheaval but having become a mother to a much wanted and loved baby who snores next to me, it is not the sort of upheaval I think should be forced on anyone.

Grayson wrote: »

Also, you've given no criteria on what makes a person. What makes a human being. And lease don't say DNA. Brain dead people on life support have DNA but we don't consider them people anymore. There's no moral objection removing life support from them because we recognise that although there's a body there, there's no actual person.

I've kept myself firmly out of this discussion due to the sheer snowflake mentality of people on both sides...both juvenile and pathetic tbh

( Recently addressed in the paper)

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/snowflake-debate-is-no-good-we-all-need-to-grow-up-and-speak-openly-about-the-abortion-referendum-36919896.html

But that last par of your post interested me... just on the point in bold... the problem with that imo is that it's an entirely subjective judgement. Until conciousness is fully understood (if ever) we can't really say that they aren't people.

I've read stories of brain dead coma victims coming back and accurately recalling conversations that happened at their bedside

Just a thought is all.. not trying to be argumentative

antiskeptic wrote: »

Abortions are to be performed on demand. The reason can be anything at all in the world.

Nope. Up to 12 weeks it will be 72hours after demand. On demand means "I want this right now", not "I want this in 3 days time".

Fed up with all the FUD being bandied about by the no side. Only one more week thank fcuk.

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I think the example of using children with Down syndrome as a deterrant is really abhorrent in a way-because even someone who gives birth to a Down syndrome child may be unable to raise them and may have to put the child up for adoption.
A child with DS can be expensive to raise. My neighbour has a child who has an intellectual disability. Costs and resources were difficult to procure.
A child with Down Syndrome can be hard going for a parent.

If a person chooses to abort or put up for adoption a child with Down syndrome, that is a difficult decision to make-one that is carefully considered. It's not something to vilify someone for.

Disability won't be grounds for abortion in Ireland and down syndrome cannot be diagnosed that early (<12 weeks) in pregnancy anyway.

pleas advice wrote: »

It is on demand, no questions asked. Why do you feel the need to deny this?

That is just an outright lie and you know it.

Another one for the "but the eight doesn't " whiners :

"I never wanted an abortion, I wanted treatment. I got gangrene instead"



https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/i-needed-surgery-but-because-i-was-pregnant-i-was-left-to-rot-1.3500349

Outside of the Eighth Amendment.
A change I'd love for the government to make is they start counting the ballet boxes as soon as polls close. Similar to what they do in the UK!