Fatal Incident at Howth Junction

mikemac2 · 15-05-2018 10:13AM

Usually in these cases there are impatient moaners blasting the Irish rail twitter guy with “I have places to get to “

I didn’t see any this morning which shows maturity but maybe down to the many instances recently which isn’t good either

w/s/p/c/ · 15-05-2018 10:34AM

mikemac2 wrote: »

Usually in these cases there are impatient moaners blasting the Irish rail twitter guy with “I have places to get to “

I didn’t see any this morning which shows maturity but maybe down to the many instances recently which isn’t good either

Seen a tweet from someone to the Irish Rail twitter telling them it wasn't "Good enough" that they hadn't buses laid on from Malahide to the city centre due to the tragic incident. As if Irish Rail/Dublin Bus have a fleet of buses and drivers arranged and waiting for something like this so they can get to work to carry those who can't get on a train. Whoever tweeted this or has a go at Irish Rail over this are absolute idiots, more important things in life than being a few mins late for work.

Ubbquittious · 15-05-2018 10:52AM

w/s/p/c/ wrote: »

Seen a tweet from someone to the Irish Rail twitter telling them it wasn't "Good enough" that they hadn't buses laid on from Malahide to the city centre due to the tragic incident. As if Irish Rail/Dublin Bus have a fleet of buses and drivers arranged and waiting for something like this so they can get to work to carry those who can't get on a train. Whoever tweeted this or has a go at Irish Rail over this are absolute idiots, more important things in life than being a few mins late for work.

Commuting brings out the worst in people

forestgirl · 15-05-2018 10:57AM

God help this poor person must have suffered so much to do this.some people on this thread are extremely hard,you are only inconvenienced this morning.maybe try tuŕn the rants into something positive like be nicer or help someone you might notice you feel the better for it.

Glass fused light · 15-05-2018 10:57AM

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's funny how in Dublin the whole line shuts down. When I lived in London there were regular announcements that there was a delay due to "someone under a train", which would be met with audible sighs and eye rolling from commuters. They'd sort it out quickly though and things would get running fairly quickly. Here it seems to shut down the line for half a day.
I suppose you may as well do it at rush hour to annoy a load of people as your last action!

Were you also aware that the London transport system has had to review all incidents marked as suicide after they found video evidence that a person was murdered by being pushed onto the track.

As for your last line, perhaps take the time to appreciate how very very lucky you and your family are not to have had to deal with mental health issues. And then think how that attitude reflects the help and support family member would expect to encounter if they were suffering from mental health issues.

eigrod · 15-05-2018 11:00AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I mean people keep saying that but is it true? We seem to have massive awareness campaigns and spend lots of money.

Agree with that. Some people talk as if Simon Harris, or whichever Minister is in place at the time, should be out there on the spot talking these people out of it.

Mental health is a massively complex issue and if people close to the unfortunate person suffering from it are unable to do anything, what hope is there for anybody else?

murpho999 · 15-05-2018 11:53AM

EdEd wrote: »

Can you show me where I said otherwise? This attitude that people will kill themselves anyway so why bother putting proper supports in place is the biggest issue imo.

I just don't agree there is no support there. It might not be perfect but there is support there.

Also, you don't know if this individual ever looked for help.

Yes, services could be better but you just can't blame the government on everything.

dublinbuster · 15-05-2018 11:58AM

manonboard wrote: »

As far as i know, there are often underlying feelings of desperately wanting attention. The person usually have felt severely abandoned, in horrible pain, fear, and lonely for many months/years.

Getting the attention is a way of seeking acknowledgement of their pain from society. After feeling left out/invisible/not respected.. There is a feeling of power obtained from at least having the pain acknowledged. I think this is why it can go this way.

Would it not then be best to not make a big deal of the suicide?
Hose down the tracks and train, get it back in service ASAP.
Potential suicidal people would then see that they dont get any attention by jumping under a train.
Make a suicide by Train as inconsequential as possible for the rest of society, its worth a try as the current policy has no effect in stopping jumpers.

Glass fused light · 15-05-2018 12:13PM

dublinbuster wrote: »

Would it not then be best to not make a big deal of the suicide?
Hose down the tracks and train, get it back in service ASAP.
Potential suicidal people would then see that they dont get any attention by jumping under a train.
Make a suicide by Train as inconsequential as possible for the rest of society, its worth a try as the current policy has no effect in stopping jumpers.

Prehaps you might think about the physical reality of the act.
Trains don't move off a fixed track.
They are moving at a fixed speed and can only slow down by a fixed rate.
your body will not have anywhere to go other than ?
The weight of the train will do ? to your body

Making the body recovery process as inconsequential as possible will have no effect.
Suicide by train is not attention seeking behaviour.

EdEd · 15-05-2018 12:33PM

murpho999 wrote: »

I just don't agree there is no support there. It might not be perfect but there is support there.

Also, you don't know if this individual ever looked for help.

Yes, services could be better but you just can't blame the government on everything.

I am speaking in general terms and not just this case. Do you always put words in peoples mouths?

Graces7 · 15-05-2018 01:09PM

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's a bit of a dick move though by the jumper, I mean it could cause an accident and most certainly traumatise the driver

If someone is in that desperate state they are not able to think along those lines. Whatever works, do it, now.

Stab*City · 15-05-2018 01:10PM

forestgirl wrote: »

God help this poor person must have suffered so much to do this.

More like God help his family if he has one, The driver, The people on the train, the people at howth junction, the drivers family and so much more. I have no sympathy for people who scar so many others when only thinking of themselves. No thought for the people left behind.

Graces7 · 15-05-2018 01:11PM

dublinbuster wrote: »

Would it not then be best to not make a big deal of the suicide?
Hose down the tracks and train, get it back in service ASAP.
Potential suicidal people would then see that they dont get any attention by jumping under a train.
Make a suicide by Train as inconsequential as possible for the rest of society, its worth a try as the current policy has no effect in stopping jumpers.

As the aim of suicide is your death, folk are not going to be thinking of getting attention, are they? Just of never getting attention ever again in any way. Jumping is highly effective. And fast.

Graces7 · 15-05-2018 01:14PM

Stab*City wrote: »

More like God help his family if he has one, The driver, The people on the train, the people at howth junction, the drivers family and so much more. I have no sympathy for people who scar so many others when only thinking of themselves. No thought for the people left behind.

So severely depressed folk should conform to these ideas? They are not seeking sympathy, only annihiliation, end of all. Tunnel vision. Is that their fault? Can we blame them for their mental state? Maybe it is being thought of like that that makes them so desperate?

Mitch Connor · 15-05-2018 01:16PM

sugarman wrote: »

I really wish the Irish media / emergency services would just call it for what it is and stop pussy footing around the word 'suicide'. It's not offensive or insensitive and raises a hell of lot more awarenesses to the extent of the problem in our society than a 'Tragic incident' or 'Personal tragedy'.

I believe various Suicide Prevention groups advise agencies against exactly this - that refering to such incidents in vague terms is what they advise. So as not to advertise or publicise specific suicide incidents. The belief being, I understand, that they fear someone on the edge of such acts could be compelled to act by the news/media.

P_1 · 15-05-2018 01:16PM

Sadly when depression has somebody too far along they not only seek to end their life but end it in one of the most painful (and perhaps somewhat controversial to say) inefficient manner. There ae many ways we can shuffle off this mortal coil, being hit by a train is one of the worse ways.

RIP to the victim here, my thoughts are with the train driver and please if you notice depression getting such a dark grip into yourself or others get help. Talk to someone. Killing yourself that way is no way to go.

Stab*City · 15-05-2018 01:20PM

Graces7 wrote: »

So severely depressed folk should conform to these ideas? They are not seeking sympathy, only annihiliation, end of all. Tunnel vision. Is that their fault? Can we blame them for their mental state? Maybe it is being thought of like that that makes them so desperate?

The only thing they seem to be conforming to is their own ideas, well look it aint my fault or the bus drivers or the guy an hour late for work. They dont give a monkeys about anyone else when they do these things so why should we care after the fact? Cant blame them for their mental state but yes we can blame them for altering the other people involved mental states.

TallGlass · 15-05-2018 01:25PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Nice sympathetic attitude. Do you have any idea what they're going through to make them want to do this?

I don't think it's fair to bring other people into it, that's easy to say from where I am. But, you don't know what knock on effect it will have on that train driver, with which you need to have some sympathy too.

Tragic situation for everyone.

As for people commenting on how quickly the trains should be running, I am sure there is more to recovering a probably badly dismembered body from under a train and conducting somewhat of an investigation. Also the person could have been still alive at some stage and ES working on them.

The Bishop Basher · 15-05-2018 01:30PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I believe various Suicide Prevention groups advise agencies against exactly this - that refering to such incidents in vague terms is what they advise. So as not to advertise or publicise specific suicide incidents. The belief being, I understand, that they fear someone on the edge of such acts could be compelled to act by the news/media.

I would normally bow to the knowledge and experience of the experts but I believe in regards to this, they are wrong.

Suicide is at epidemic levels in Ireland and no one knows because it’s all going unreported.

How will the government ever be compelled to prioritise mental health if we keep sweeping these bodies under a carpet.

Either I live in an area that has been particularly affected (which I don’t believe to be the case) or we have a monumental problem on our hands and right now it feels like the government are busy playing fiddle while Rome burns on this issue..

15-05-2018 01:35PM

Swanner wrote: »

I would normally bow to the knowledge and experience of the experts but I believe in regards to this, they are wrong.

Suicide is at epidemic levels in Ireland and no one knows because it’s all going unreported.

How will the government ever be compelled to prioritise mental health if we keep sweeping these bodies under a carpet.

Either I live in an area that has been particularly affected (which I don’t believe to be the case) or we have a monumental problem on our hands and right now it feels like the government are busy playing fiddle while Rome burns on this issue..

Selfies at dawn and barely trained people with their hearts in the right place isn't doing nothing. :pac:

15-05-2018 03:16PM

Some of you clearly don't understand the complex nature of suicide or indeed mental health problems. No amount of research can tell us what goes through a person's mind when they are at the edge and have made a decision to end their lives. I imagine they are in a very dark and hopeless place. Does anyone here know what it feels like? To want to disappear, to not even care who is left behind because they would be better off without you anyway?

It is an absolutely heartbreaking state of affairs and I think that for some there is no way back. Life can be just too difficult and the only way out they can see is by taking their own life. I feel for the person in Howth Junction and their family. I feel for the poor train driver. Something which I see as an indication of a mature mind is being able to move away from black and white thinking. So it's possible to feel sad for all involved, not just those left behind, not just the driver of the train.

As for the mental health services in this country, well things are actually not as bad as they seem. There are providers offering counselling sessions to people and these people don't always show up. Huge money being pumped in to having a centre and therapists yet many appointments go unattended.

D3V!L · 15-05-2018 04:04PM

Take this from someone who stood at the edge of a platform day after day on the way home from work and thought about stepping off. You dont think about the consequences, its not whats going through your mind. Its a horrible urge that you have to fight with not to do it.

I have the deepest sympathies with the family of the person who passed away.

Django99 · 15-05-2018 04:23PM

Something i always think about in regards to suicide is the human instinct for survival. Not just humans, but all living things. The lengths that living things go to, to remain alive, all based on an immeasurable desire to survive. It is the one thing every living thing has in common.

I can't imagine what happens to a person for the opposite instinct to kick in. That the only solution is death. It is a horrifying prosepect.

It is also an incredibly complex issue that does not discriminate. Young and old, rich and poor, male and female, every country in the world, for thousands of years have experienced this problem.

It bothers me that people try to simplify the issue. It encourages me that as a whole, people want to solve the problem. But looking for people to blame is not the right way to go about it.

manonboard · 15-05-2018 05:20PM

Django99 wrote: »

Something i always think about in regards to suicide is the human instinct for survival. Not just humans, but all living things. The lengths that living things go to, to remain alive, all based on an immeasurable desire to survive. It is the one thing every living thing has in common.

I can't imagine what happens to a person for the opposite instinct to kick in. That the only solution is death. It is a horrifying prosepect.

It is also an incredibly complex issue that does not discriminate. Young and old, rich and poor, male and female, every country in the world, for thousands of years have experienced this problem.

It bothers me that people try to simplify the issue. It encourages me that as a whole, people want to solve the problem. But looking for people to blame is not the right way to go about it.

Mostly its an issue of ending pain. I was suicidal a long time ago. I didnt do it because the guilt of what it would do to my family, and the fear of dying was too great. However i was pretty close to it, twice. Just couldn't do that last push. (well the first time, i did, it just didnt work)
( i now teach groups in meditation, happiness, well being and ethical relationships

lol ironically!)

The pain of living is what is trying to be escaped. It's probably technically the fear of the pain to be more accurate. This would fit in with your post about people having a great instinct to survive. The fear of death, of ending, of pain is great enough to keep people alive. However when the fear process is stronger towards a pain and there is no subjective view that it can be escaped in life, then death becomes the next logical option in the person head.

uck51js9zml2yt · 15-05-2018 05:24PM

My in-laws father was a train driver. He had someone put their head on the tracks as he approached.
He never drove again!

DEFTLEFTHAND · 15-05-2018 05:31PM

Hard on everyone involved.

I understand that suicide should be personal business and should not involve any innocent third parties but it's important to remember that a suicidal person is not in a rational state of mind.

Django99 · 15-05-2018 05:44PM

manonboard wrote: »

Django99 wrote: »

Something i always think about in regards to suicide is the human instinct for survival. Not just humans, but all living things. The lengths that living things go to, to remain alive, all based on an immeasurable desire to survive. It is the one thing every living thing has in common.

I can't imagine what happens to a person for the opposite instinct to kick in. That the only solution is death. It is a horrifying prosepect.

It is also an incredibly complex issue that does not discriminate. Young and old, rich and poor, male and female, every country in the world, for thousands of years have experienced this problem.

It bothers me that people try to simplify the issue. It encourages me that as a whole, people want to solve the problem. But looking for people to blame is not the right way to go about it.

The pain of living is what is trying to be escaped. It's probably technically the fear of the pain to be more accurate. This would fit in with your post about people having a great instinct to survive. The fear of death, of ending, of pain is great enough to keep people alive. However when the fear process is stronger towards a pain and there is no subjective view that it can be escaped in life, then death becomes the next logical option in the person head.

That's the thing that scares me, that such pain exists. When i think of the most painful things that have happened to me, or happened to other people, and that survival instinct still remains. To experience a pain that not only overrides that instinct, but reverses it, is something i can barely imagine and am very grateful I've never had to experience.

It's good to hear that you managed to overcome that and are now using your experience to help others.

wexie · 15-05-2018 07:15PM

Django99 wrote: »

That's the thing that scares me, that such pain exists. When i think of the most painful things that have happened to me, or happened to other people, and that survival instinct still remains. To experience a pain that not only overrides that instinct, but reverses it, is something i can barely imagine and am very grateful I've never had to experience.

It's good to hear that you managed to overcome that and are now using your experience to help others.

They are (in many cases) a different type of pain. Physical pain versus emotional or existential. Not sure this thread is the best place for that discussion though given some of the contributions here.

15-05-2018 09:07PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Tragic but why blame Ireland?

You can't hold a country responsible for every psychological issue.

Not all sucides are going to be prevented sadly.

No, of course not - and nobody is claiming something this silly. However, a hell of a lot of people, including children, could be saved if they didn't have to become a number at the end of some faceless queue for a couple of years.

That recent RTÉ programme on youth mental health was heartbreaking - especially listening to that man recount in agonising detail his family's attempts to get support for his suicidal daughter, who ultimately took her life last year at 11 years of age. 11. You could really understand the hostility of all the parents in that programme to the spindoctors and politicians and their misinformed official comments about what's supposed to be the reality. They are alone, but screaming at our state for help that does not come. And the HSE refusing to say how much money this state allocates to youth mental health services speaks volumes.

RTÉ: The Big Picture: young & troubled

TomSweeney · 15-05-2018 09:21PM

Very sad, I had a 2nd cousin that committed suicide 2 weeks ago - very worrying the increase and always seem to be young men.

Fatal Incident at Howth Junction

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