Fatal Incident at Howth Junction

Samuel T. Cogley

I really hope this was an accident and not a suicide. There have been far too many of these over the last while, it's really time Ireland started focusing more on mental health.

Condolences to the loved ones of the person involved and thinking of the driver too.

murpho999

Tragic but why blame Ireland?

You can't hold a country responsible for every psychological issue.

Not all sucides are going to be prevented sadly.

somesoldiers

I am currently involved with mental health services through a family member and am overwhelmed at the support out there for both families and the person involved.
Of course the problem identifying those that need help in the first place

UK are having a minute silence across all radio stations today at 10:59 to raise awareness for mental health

Samuel T. Cogley

murpho999 wrote: »

Tragic but why blame Ireland?

You can't hold a country responsible for every psychological issue.

Not all sucides are going to be prevented sadly.

Indeed, but having first hand experience of mental health services it is very difficult to get early, or proper treatment. There needs to be more service available and earlier intervention.

I says

Tragic as it is whether it’s suicide or not,I’m sure the dart driver isn’t feeling great now.

knucklehead6

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I really hope this was an accident and not a suicide. There have been far too many of these over the last while, it's really time Ireland started focusing more on mental health.

Condolences to the loved ones of the person involved and thinking of the driver too.

From the Dart Drivers point of view I’d be thinking he’s preferring suicide than an accident. If it’s an accident then he’ll be under intense pressure and formal investigation, possibly losing his job

At least with suicide he’ll have the solace of knowing that if it wasn’t him driving the train the deceased would still have done it.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I really hope this was an accident and not a suicide.

Why is that? Both are preventable.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Why is that? Both are preventable.

Both are not deliberate.

whisky_galore

'Tragic incident' on media sources, which is code for suicide.

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich

My friend's uncle did the same earlier this year on the Dart line, nice guy with 3 kids.
It's funny how in Dublin the whole line shuts down. When I lived in London there were regular announcements that there was a delay due to "someone under a train", which would be met with audible sighs and eye rolling from commuters. They'd sort it out quickly though and things would get running fairly quickly. Here it seems to shut down the line for half a day.
I suppose you may as well do it at rush hour to annoy a load of people as your last action!

I'd rather it was a suicide tbh.

Ubbquittious

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

My friend's uncle did the same earlier this year on the Dart line, nice guy with 3 kids.
It's funny how in Dublin the whole line shuts down. When I lived in London there were regular announcements that there was a delay due to "someone under a train", which would be met with audible sighs and eye rolling from commuters. They'd sort it out quickly though and things would get running fairly quickly. Here it seems to shut down the line for half a day.
I suppose you may as well do it at
rush hour to annoy a load of people as your last action!

Its just a faster pace of life there and they have nearly all turfed religion and superstitious notions of respect for the dead out of the window so they can concentrate on getting on with the rat race.

In China where life is even cheaper theyd probably not stop at all unless the train actually wouldn't move.

Hurrache

In London I'm sure there's many lines in which trains can get diverted around while investigations hapen. For the Dart, outside of sidings around some stations, there's 2 lines, north and south.

Samuel T. Cogley

sugarman wrote: »

I really wish the Irish media / emergency services would just call it for what it is and stop pussy footing around the word 'suicide'. It's not offensive or insensitive and raises a hell of lot more awarenesses to the extent of the problem in our society than a 'Tragic incident' or 'Personal tragedy'.

Until the investigation is complete, they have to be careful though.

Rmgblue

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Until the investigation is complete, they have to be careful though.

Exactly. Imagine them saying it was a suicide and then it wasn’t.
It’s funny how everything turns into garda bashing.

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich

It's a bit of a dick move though by the jumper, I mean it could cause an accident and most certainly traumatise the driver

EdEd

murpho999 wrote: »

Tragic but why blame Ireland?

Our governments are shameful when it comes to mental health.

The_Kew_Tour

On average a Train Driver will experience 2 Suicides in their working lifetime.

SEPT 23 1989

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's a bit of a dick move though by the jumper, I mean it could cause an accident and most certainly traumatise the driver

I always thought if i had to do something this it would be out of the way and involve nobody else but then again I have never been suicidal so i dont really know what i would do

wakka12

Suicide happens in every country no matter how good mental health awareness resources are. There will always be many people who are set on ending their lives and will never be comforted or talked out of it

Assetbacked

No trains at all between Malahide and Killester which is effectively the entire north side Dart line. It brings it home how Dublin, despite it's size and status, is still very much a typical Irish small town type of place. Charming in its own way as a result of his, certainly has a laid back way of life, possibly too laid back at times.

Franz Von Peppercorn

EdEd wrote: »

Our governments are shameful when it comes to mental health.

I mean people keep saying that but is it true? We seem to have massive awareness campaigns and spend lots of money.

EdEd

wakka12 wrote: »

Suicide happens in every country no matter how good mental health awareness resources are. There will always be many people who are set on ending their lives and will never be comforted or talked out of it

Obviously but without the help there are many preventable cases cast aside.

wexie

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I mean people keep saying that but is it true? We seem to have massive awareness campaigns and spend lots of money.

I certainly couldn't tell you about country wide. But in my experience the services unless you have private health insurance the services are absolutely dire.

Local mental health team (for example) didn't have a psychologist on staff for over 2 years! And that doesn't seem to be an isolated incident.

There may be lots of awareness campaigns but most of it is just lip service.

EdEd

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I mean people keep saying that but is it true? We seem to have massive awareness campaigns and spend lots of money.

It absolutely is true. If you ever need professional help on the public system, and I hope you never will, then you're screwed.

murpho999

EdEd wrote: »

Our governments are shameful when it comes to mental health.

Can you tell me a country that does not have a suicide issue?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I mean people keep saying that but is it true? We seem to have massive awareness campaigns and spend lots of money.

Try talking to anyone who's had to access them. It's a disgrace. Nothing but good things to say about the staff but the resources aren't there. The alternative is the feel-good charity crap and knowing people involved up and down them it's disgusting the amount of money that goes into them as a way of seeming like something is being done.

murpho999

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's a bit of a dick move though by the jumper, I mean it could cause an accident and most certainly traumatise the driver

Nice sympathetic attitude. Do you have any idea what they're going through to make them want to do this?

manonboard

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's a bit of a dick move though by the jumper, I mean it could cause an accident and most certainly traumatise the driver

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I always thought if i had to do something this it would be out of the way and involve nobody else but then again I have never been suicidal so i dont really know what i would do

As far as i know, there are often underlying feelings of desperately wanting attention. The person usually have felt severely abandoned, in horrible pain, fear, and lonely for many months/years.
The morning time is one of the lowest for them as it's another whole day they have to feel these things before hoping to fall asleep (usually after long hours of feeling them more).

Getting the attention is a way of seeking acknowledgement of their pain from society. After feeling left out/invisible/not respected.. There is a feeling of power obtained from at least having the pain acknowledged. I think this is why it can go this way.

EdEd

murpho999 wrote: »

Can you tell me a country that does not have a suicide issue?

Can you show me where I said otherwise? This attitude that people will kill themselves anyway so why bother putting proper supports in place is the biggest issue imo.

ThinkProgress

wakka12 wrote: »

Suicide happens in every country no matter how good mental health awareness resources are. There will always be many people who are set on ending their lives and will never be comforted or talked out of it

This is true.

And in the future, ending one's life will be a very simple and painless event. Just like pressing a button to switch off a light!

People are very easy to create, and also remarkably easy to kill... with this in mind, it really makes you wonder just how precious life actually is!?

I've no issue with anyone killing themselves... but just try not to inconvenience everyone else around you when you do the deed. I feel sorry for the train driver, and also the people who will have to scrape this individual off the tracks and clean up that awful mess.... you cannot unsee those kind of things... poor f*ckers!!

mikemac2

Usually in these cases there are impatient moaners blasting the Irish rail twitter guy with “I have places to get to “

I didn’t see any this morning which shows maturity but maybe down to the many instances recently which isn’t good either

w/s/p/c/

mikemac2 wrote: »

Usually in these cases there are impatient moaners blasting the Irish rail twitter guy with “I have places to get to “

I didn’t see any this morning which shows maturity but  maybe down to the many instances recently which isn’t good either

Seen a tweet from someone to the Irish Rail twitter telling them it wasn't "Good enough" that they hadn't buses laid on from Malahide to the city centre due to the tragic incident.  As if Irish Rail/Dublin Bus have a fleet of buses and drivers arranged and waiting for something like this so they can get to work to carry those who can't get on a train.  Whoever tweeted this or has a go at Irish Rail over this are absolute idiots, more important things in life than being a few mins late for work.

Ubbquittious

w/s/p/c/ wrote: »

Seen a tweet from someone to the Irish Rail twitter telling them it wasn't "Good enough" that they hadn't buses laid on from Malahide to the city centre due to the tragic incident. As if Irish Rail/Dublin Bus have a fleet of buses and drivers arranged and waiting for something like this so they can get to work to carry those who can't get on a train. Whoever tweeted this or has a go at Irish Rail over this are absolute idiots, more important things in life than being a few mins late for work.

Commuting brings out the worst in people

forestgirl

God help this poor person must have suffered so much to do this.some people on this thread are extremely hard,you are only inconvenienced this morning.maybe try tuŕn the rants into something positive like be nicer or help someone you might notice you feel the better for it.

Glass fused light

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's funny how in Dublin the whole line shuts down. When I lived in London there were regular announcements that there was a delay due to "someone under a train", which would be met with audible sighs and eye rolling from commuters. They'd sort it out quickly though and things would get running fairly quickly. Here it seems to shut down the line for half a day.
I suppose you may as well do it at rush hour to annoy a load of people as your last action!

Were you also aware that the London transport system has had to review all incidents marked as suicide after they found video evidence that a person was murdered by being pushed onto the track.

As for your last line, perhaps take the time to appreciate how very very lucky you and your family are not to have had to deal with mental health issues. And then think how that attitude reflects the help and support family member would expect to encounter if they were suffering from mental health issues.

eigrod

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I mean people keep saying that but is it true? We seem to have massive awareness campaigns and spend lots of money.

Agree with that. Some people talk as if Simon Harris, or whichever Minister is in place at the time, should be out there on the spot talking these people out of it.

Mental health is a massively complex issue and if people close to the unfortunate person suffering from it are unable to do anything, what hope is there for anybody else?

murpho999

EdEd wrote: »

Can you show me where I said otherwise? This attitude that people will kill themselves anyway so why bother putting proper supports in place is the biggest issue imo.

I just don't agree there is no support there. It might not be perfect but there is support there.

Also, you don't know if this individual ever looked for help.

Yes, services could be better but you just can't blame the government on everything.

dublinbuster

manonboard wrote: »

As far as i know, there are often underlying feelings of desperately wanting attention. The person usually have felt severely abandoned, in horrible pain, fear, and lonely for many months/years.

Getting the attention is a way of seeking acknowledgement of their pain from society. After feeling left out/invisible/not respected.. There is a feeling of power obtained from at least having the pain acknowledged. I think this is why it can go this way.

Would it not then be best to not make a big deal of the suicide?
Hose down the tracks and train, get it back in service ASAP.
Potential suicidal people would then see that they dont get any attention by jumping under a train.
Make a suicide by Train as inconsequential as possible for the rest of society, its worth a try as the current policy has no effect in stopping jumpers.

Glass fused light

dublinbuster wrote: »

Would it not then be best to not make a big deal of the suicide?
Hose down the tracks and train, get it back in service ASAP.
Potential suicidal people would then see that they dont get any attention by jumping under a train.
Make a suicide by Train as inconsequential as possible for the rest of society, its worth a try as the current policy has no effect in stopping jumpers.

Prehaps you might think about the physical reality of the act.
Trains don't move off a fixed track.
They are moving at a fixed speed and can only slow down by a fixed rate.
your body will not have anywhere to go other than ?
The weight of the train will do ? to your body

Making the body recovery process as inconsequential as possible will have no effect.
Suicide by train is not attention seeking behaviour.

EdEd

murpho999 wrote: »

I just don't agree there is no support there. It might not be perfect but there is support there.

Also, you don't know if this individual ever looked for help.

Yes, services could be better but you just can't blame the government on everything.

I am speaking in general terms and not just this case. Do you always put words in peoples mouths?

Graces7

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich wrote: »

It's a bit of a dick move though by the jumper, I mean it could cause an accident and most certainly traumatise the driver

If someone is in that desperate state they are not able to think along those lines. Whatever works, do it, now.

Stab*City

forestgirl wrote: »

God help this poor person must have suffered so much to do this.

More like God help his family if he has one, The driver, The people on the train, the people at howth junction, the drivers family and so much more. I have no sympathy for people who scar so many others when only thinking of themselves. No thought for the people left behind.

Graces7

dublinbuster wrote: »

Would it not then be best to not make a big deal of the suicide?
Hose down the tracks and train, get it back in service ASAP.
Potential suicidal people would then see that they dont get any attention by jumping under a train.
Make a suicide by Train as inconsequential as possible for the rest of society, its worth a try as the current policy has no effect in stopping jumpers.

As the aim of suicide is your death, folk are not going to be thinking of getting attention, are they? Just of never getting attention ever again in any way. Jumping is highly effective. And fast.

Graces7

Stab*City wrote: »

More like God help his family if he has one, The driver, The people on the train, the people at howth junction, the drivers family and so much more. I have no sympathy for people who scar so many others when only thinking of themselves. No thought for the people left behind.

So severely depressed folk should conform to these ideas? They are not seeking sympathy, only annihiliation, end of all. Tunnel vision. Is that their fault? Can we blame them for their mental state? Maybe it is being thought of like that that makes them so desperate?

Mitch Connor

sugarman wrote: »

I really wish the Irish media / emergency services would just call it for what it is and stop pussy footing around the word 'suicide'. It's not offensive or insensitive and raises a hell of lot more awarenesses to the extent of the problem in our society than a 'Tragic incident' or 'Personal tragedy'.

I believe various Suicide Prevention groups advise agencies against exactly this - that refering to such incidents in vague terms is what they advise. So as not to advertise or publicise specific suicide incidents. The belief being, I understand, that they fear someone on the edge of such acts could be compelled to act by the news/media.

P_1

Sadly when depression has somebody too far along they not only seek to end their life but end it in one of the most painful (and perhaps somewhat controversial to say) inefficient manner. There ae many ways we can shuffle off this mortal coil, being hit by a train is one of the worse ways.

RIP to the victim here, my thoughts are with the train driver and please if you notice depression getting such a dark grip into yourself or others get help. Talk to someone. Killing yourself that way is no way to go.

Stab*City

Graces7 wrote: »

So severely depressed folk should conform to these ideas? They are not seeking sympathy, only annihiliation, end of all. Tunnel vision. Is that their fault? Can we blame them for their mental state? Maybe it is being thought of like that that makes them so desperate?

The only thing they seem to be conforming to is their own ideas, well look it aint my fault or the bus drivers or the guy an hour late for work. They dont give a monkeys about anyone else when they do these things so why should we care after the fact? Cant blame them for their mental state but yes we can blame them for altering the other people involved mental states.

TallGlass

murpho999 wrote: »

Nice sympathetic attitude. Do you have any idea what they're going through to make them want to do this?

I don't think it's fair to bring other people into it, that's easy to say from where I am. But, you don't know what knock on effect it will have on that train driver, with which you need to have some sympathy too.

Tragic situation for everyone.

As for people commenting on how quickly the trains should be running, I am sure there is more to recovering a probably badly dismembered body from under a train and conducting somewhat of an investigation. Also the person could have been still alive at some stage and ES working on them.

The Bishop Basher

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I believe various Suicide Prevention groups advise agencies against exactly this - that refering to such incidents in vague terms is what they advise. So as not to advertise or publicise specific suicide incidents. The belief being, I understand, that they fear someone on the edge of such acts could be compelled to act by the news/media.

I would normally bow to the knowledge and experience of the experts but I believe in regards to this, they are wrong.

Suicide is at epidemic levels in Ireland and no one knows because it’s all going unreported.

How will the government ever be compelled to prioritise mental health if we keep sweeping these bodies under a carpet.

Either I live in an area that has been particularly affected (which I don’t believe to be the case) or we have a monumental problem on our hands and right now it feels like the government are busy playing fiddle while Rome burns on this issue..

Swanner

Swanner wrote: »

I would normally bow to the knowledge and experience of the experts but I believe in regards to this, they are wrong.

Suicide is at epidemic levels in Ireland and no one knows because it’s all going unreported.

How will the government ever be compelled to prioritise mental health if we keep sweeping these bodies under a carpet.

Either I live in an area that has been particularly affected (which I don’t believe to be the case) or we have a monumental problem on our hands and right now it feels like the government are busy playing fiddle while Rome burns on this issue..

Selfies at dawn and barely trained people with their hearts in the right place isn't doing nothing. :pac: