Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

1…220221223225226…324

Comments

  • #6662
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    A healthy baby, and healthy mother, so the vast majority of cases

    What about mental health? How badly does the mental health of the mother need to be affected before it's "okay" to have an abortion?


  • #6663
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    dudara wrote: »
    I'm seeing a hell of a lot of fresh "No" posters going up at the moment. They appear to be accelerating their campaign and it's clear that they have a lot of money to do so. I assume that their goal is to target the undecideds and get them either to vote No, or abstain.

    Where is their sense of fair play though? Even though I vehemently disagree with them, I would never take down their posters and replace with one of my side. That's just unethical. One thing this entire referendum has made clear to me is that there's a need for stronger control of campaign material and stricter rules on campaign conduct.

    an undecided is just a no voter...


  • #6664
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    What about mental health? How badly does the mental health of the mother need to be affected before it's "okay" to have an abortion?

    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned


  • #6665
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,542 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    I think how condescending he was to everyone else turned the crowd against him, he was a very poor speaker.
    They all were apart from Maria Steen who stole the show, Mary Lou did ok for the yes side until she started mentioning Sinn Fein voters and that she was pro life.
    The gp's for no who worked in the UK, both women also had a big impact.

    What the No side don't seem to realise (and it was the same for those on the No side in the SSM ref) is that the treatment the obstetrician received will turn as many to Yes as it will to No.
    He was treated disgracefully when he tried to reasonably explain his point of view.


  • #6666
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    I think how condescending he was to everyone else turned the crowd against him, he was a very poor speaker.
    They all were apart from Maria Steen who stole the show, Mary Lou did ok for the yes side until she started mentioning Sinn Fein voters and that she was pro life.
    The gp's for no who worked in the UK, both women also had a big impact.

    The No side were just so self involved it was ridiculous.
    "I saw abortion in England and didn't like it, so no Irish woman should be allowed". "I had an abortion and I regret it, so no Irish woman should be allowed".

    I actually don't care what their experiences are.
    I don't care what they think.
    I'm more than capable of making my own mind up about my own health and my own life.
    I don't need to be saved from myself by these "white knights" trying to control everyone just because they have regrets or didn't like a foreign healthcare system does things (a regime we are currently allowing look after our women).

    I find it so offensive as a woman that other people think they know better than I do about my own life.


  • Advertisement
  • #6667
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned

    and where did they get the facts to back that up?


  • #6668
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned

    First of all, link?

    Secondly, the hard cases are the biggest reason why the 8th needs to repealed.


  • #6669
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,914 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bubblypop wrote: »
    and where did they get the facts to back that up?


    They are GPs so AnneFrank considers them infallible. Well except those GPs on the Yes side. those guys are idiots.


  • #6670
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The No side were just so self involved it was ridiculous.
    "I saw abortion in England and didn't like it, so no Irish woman should be allowed". "I had an abortion and I regret it, so no Irish woman should be allowed".

    I actually don't care what their experiences are.
    I don't care what they think.
    I'm more than capable of making my own mind up about my own health and my own life.
    I don't need to be saved from myself by these "white knights" trying to control everyone just because they have regrets or didn't like a foreign healthcare system does things (a regime we are currently allowing look after our women).

    I find it so offensive as a woman that other people think they know better than I do about my own life.

    It's not all about you Susie, though your posts say otherwise.


  • #6671
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Even if it was just for the "hard cases", the 8th should be repealed to accommodate those families.

    There is no such thing as social abortion.
    Its a dismissive, offensive term used to trivialise the extremely difficult circumstances a woman finds herself in where abortion is the only option.

    One of the issues you will have is explaining how 38% of abortions in the UK last year were a second, third or further abortion for the patient.
    That’s a lot of couples finding themselves in difficult circumstances outside of their control over and over again.


  • Advertisement
  • #6672
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What the No side don't seem to realise (and it was the same for those on the No side in the SSM ref) is that the treatment the obstetrician received will turn as many to Yes as it will to No.
    He was treated disgracefully when he tried to reasonably explain his point of view.


    I found the whooping and hollering of the pro-lifers in the audience to be particularly disgusting. This was a serious topic that they treated like a football match.


  • #6673
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19014789
    Claims that women who have elective abortions will experience psychological distress have fueled much of the recent debate on abortion. It has been argued that the emotional sequelae of abortion may not occur until months or years after the event. Despite unclear evidence on such a phenomenon, adverse mental health outcomes of abortion have been used as a rationale for policy-making.


  • #6674
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    It's not all about you Susie, though your posts say otherwise.


    Ah yes, every time you come into this thread, you eventually show your true colours.


  • #6675
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned

    And yet here we have a study done on Irish women published in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology that reports that 97% of women questioned were happy with their decision to abort and didn't have any regrets.


  • #6676
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned

    I see you're back to trusting doctors again...

    Would they have had an agenda at all?

    or are they truly impartial observers?

    have they conducted lengthy quantitative research into the subject at hand?

    have they published their findings?

    do we just trust someone's feelings because they match our own feelings and because their feelings help to serve our own agendas?

    2 doctors with an agenda is hardly a trustworthy sample size now is it?


  • #6677
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    It's not all about you Susie, though your posts say otherwise.

    I'm not the one advocating removing choice from people here, I trust and respect others to make their own choices and expect to be afforded the same freedom.


  • #6678
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    splinter65 wrote: »
    One of the issues you will have is explaining how 38% of abortions in the UK last year were a second, third or further abortion for the patient.
    That’s a lot of couples finding themselves in difficult circumstances outside of their control over and over again.

    Can you explain to me why you consider the social mores of the UK to be so similar to ours particularly when you take into account Brexit, fear of immigrants etc?

    Do you believe that our culture and society are the same as the UK and that statistics relating to such cultural and societal issues as abortion are readily comparable?


  • #6679
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    splinter65 wrote: »
    One of the issues you will have is explaining how 38% of abortions in the UK last year were a second, third or further abortion for the patient.
    That’s a lot of couples finding themselves in difficult circumstances outside of their control over and over again.

    Or you know, the woman could have uterine abnormalities and would prefer to abort rather than miscarry over and over again. Why does it matter how many women have had a certain amount of abortions when you've no idea why she chose to have that many?


  • #6680
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I'm not the one advocating removing choice from people here, I trust and respect others to make their own choices and expect to be afforded the same freedom.

    Except that of a healthy child, that cannot defend itself.


  • #6681
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And yet here we have a study done on Irish women published in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology that reports that 97% of women questioned were happy with their decision to abort and didn't have any regrets.

    studies are basically printed lies

    Anne works with feelings


  • Advertisement
  • #6682
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    I currently use three. There's still a risk I could get pregnant.

    1.fair ball.

    2. Repeal doesnt encourage your approach. It simply moves the rug under which crisis pregnancies are currently being swept to this side of the Irish Sea.

    I dont have all the answers. Im for liberalisation. But not this. Not a.o.d.



    The lack of knowledge people have on contraception is worrying, we really need to step up our sex ed.

    I agree. But we are being asked to make this great leap forward. Past a society that places abortion as an option of last resort to of first resort. Wheres the support. Wheres the free contrceptives. Wheres tackling dads who flee the scene. Wheres se education. Wheres adoption.

    Nah: the blunt instrument, the cheapest option.
    Also, what exactly are people like?

    They vary tremendously. A.o.b. will cater for the most noble of cases (the ones Yes are focusing on). It will cater for the most ignoble cases (the ones Yes wouldnt touch with a bargepole). And everthing in between.

    People can be extremely selfish. Especially when they find themselves somewhere they really dont want to be.


  • #6683
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Any of the women importing pills could be prosecuted easily, when a package gets intercepted by customs it has their address or parcel motel account details on it. No need for a member of the public to make a complaint, customs already have prima facie evidence of an offence.

    But yes there would be riots if it happened.

    Has it ever happened ?
    Is the lack of prosecution a good thing or a bad thing to your mind?


  • #6684
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What the No side don't seem to realise (and it was the same for those on the No side in the SSM ref) is that the treatment the obstetrician received will turn as many to Yes as it will to No.
    He was treated disgracefully when he tried to reasonably explain his point of view.

    I dont think it will, at all. I think the shouting and apparent facts will sway the dont knows to no. People like to say that they will research and make informed decisions, no they wont. If they havent done so already, they never will. If they are using a bogus debate as their source, then that says the type of voter they are.

    There are thousands out there who havent a clue about the facts and will blurb off crap they hear some person say as actual fact. I despair looking at some of the stuff written online. Even some of the stuff last night, over emotional irrational rubbish but gets presented as fact without challenge.

    I dont believe last night will have helped the yes side i any shape or form. People who think the yes side did well or that the no side disgraced themselves are already yes voters. For the first time since this referendum was announced, I genuinely feel the no side are going to win. And that is a horrible situation to be in.

    There are enough people out there to vote yes, but the apathy shown in referendum turnouts needs to change. There was a 60% turnout for the SSM referendum. Usually the low turnout is to do with younger people. For the yes vote to go through, it needs a big turn out.


  • #6685
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    splinter65 wrote: »
    One of the issues you will have is explaining how 38% of abortions in the UK last year were a second, third or further abortion for the patient.
    That’s a lot of couples finding themselves in difficult circumstances outside of their control over and over again.

    I can actually think of a lot of reasons someone might have had 2 or 3 abortions.
    Genetic conditions effecting the baby, addiction/mental health issues, domestic violence in the home, contraceptive failure, I could go on.

    The reality is that its none of my business. And it seems like you are trying to imply these people are reckless and irresponsible to end up unintentionally pregnant more than once - if that's the case why on earth are you advocating trusting them with an innocent child?


  • #6686
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Except that of a healthy child, completely unaware and non sentient foetus that cannot defend itself.

    nobody out here advocating going into the nearest creche to decimate all the toddlers so lets just stick to the facts shall we


  • #6687
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Except that of a healthy child, that cannot defend itself.

    Actual people should be considered before potential ones.
    You can do what you want with your own pregnancy, don't try to interfere with mine with your faux Helen Lovejoy "think of the children" crap.
    You don't care.


  • #6688
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    The two lady Gp's who worked in the Uk said having an abortion was worse for the woman's long term mental health.
    The yes side really need more than the very low % of hard cases to convince people or they will lose, i never thought that a few weeks ago, the tide has certainly turned

    Two GPs said it. Here are a whole bunch of studies showing that there is no evidence for that and much evidence to contradict it. In fact some studies show miscarriage and giving birth are worse.

    It's one of the most pernicious and mean spirited lies consistently pushed by the no side. Anyone who's read the facts is choosing to tell that lie. Why lie if you're so right?


  • #6689
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    bubblypop wrote: »
    how do you expect Gardai to know a woman has taken abortion pills?
    Do you think we have psychic police?

    The same way they investigate any illegal drug use or importation.


  • #6690
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And yet here we have a study done on Irish women published in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology that reports that 97% of women questioned were happy with their decision to abort and didn't have any regrets.

    This is fundamentally a conscience issue. It centres on whether life in the womb is fully human - though different to a walking talking person.

    That can be rationalised away by various means but it remains the central issue.

    A person asked whether they feel they did a wrong thing or not isnt necessarily going to give a true answer. Not least to themselves.

    Your 'science' cant test for that


  • Advertisement
  • #6691
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    This is fundamentally a conscience issue. It centres on whether life in the womb is fully human - though different to a walking talking person.

    Wrong!!

    Nobody disputes that it is human, people dispute at what stage it becomes 'life'


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement