8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

It wasnt me123 · 14-05-2018 07:21PM

In fairness, RobertKK is the only regular No supporter that does try to substantiate his No claim - I'm not saying he always manages it but I acknowledge he does continue to put his head above the parapet.

Pac1Man · 14-05-2018 07:22PM

erica74 wrote: »

What propaganda would that be?

Cherry picking situations where the no side let themselves down. It's all very transparent. Hopefully people reading the thread are intelligent enough to see it for what it is.

_Dara_ · 14-05-2018 07:26PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

In fairness, RobertKK is the only regular No supporter that does try to substantiate his No claim

Let's stop you right there... he frequently posts misleading stuff.

Sofiztikated · 14-05-2018 07:27PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Cherry picking situations where the no side let themselves down. It's all very transparent. Hopefully people reading the thread are intelligent enough to see it for what it is.

There's no cherry picking though.

They let themselves down regularly.

_Dara_ · 14-05-2018 07:27PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Cherry picking situations where the no side let themselves down.

There's a lot to choose from. Because it happens a lot.

Give them enough rope...

Sofiztikated · 14-05-2018 07:31PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Let's stop you right there... he frequently posts misleading stuff.

True, but I like him being around, as much as I've butted heads with him.

He gives a good insight into the No campaign.

Pac1Man · 14-05-2018 07:32PM

Using it as ammunition though? Seems cheap.

wexie · 14-05-2018 07:33PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Cherry picking situations where the no side let themselves down. It's all very transparent. Hopefully people reading the thread are intelligent enough to see it for what it is.

You didn't happen to spot any of the posts (happened a few times now) of people being told to report 'repeal' canvassers that step out of line no?

_Dara_ · 14-05-2018 07:36PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Using it as ammunition though? Seems cheap.

Dismantling No misinformation (and there's a lot of it) is not using it as ammo.

BabysCoffee · 14-05-2018 07:37PM

theballz wrote: »

Grabbed my arm and stepped on of me. She said something along the lines of “It’s people like you who are the reason for this vote” and was visibility angry

She sounds a bit deranged

Billy86 · 14-05-2018 07:38PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Cherry picking situations where the no side let themselves down. It's all very transparent. Hopefully people reading the thread are intelligent enough to see it for what it is.

Are you saying the questionable stuff that the no side have got up to through the campaign should just be ignored and not commented on?

Ave Sodalis · 14-05-2018 07:46PM

"I had an extreme premature baby in 2000. Born at 27 weeks gestation she weighed 2lb 4oz. I talk freely about how small she was, how stressful it was for myself and my partner to go through caring for her and how wonderful it is that she grew up to be such a fine young woman that we are so, so proud of. It was easy to talk about the nice stuff, the milestones she reached, her amazing personality, the fact that she suffered no long term disability.
What's harder to talk about is the effect her birth had on him and myself.
What I don't speak about is the trauma we went through at the time of her birth, and how the 8th Amendment put my life at risk.
We were delighted to be pregnant. The congratulations and preparations were the complete opposite to my previous pregnancy. Six years previously I was a lone parent on welfare and living in a ****ty two roomed flat. This time, I had the support of an amazing man. This pregnancy was full of hope of a future with a mum, a dad and 2 kids. Perfection.
At about 24 weeks I had a bleed. Panicked, I rang him and he came to collect me. We walked the short distance to the hospital but my doctor was away. Another doctor checked me out, baby's heart beat was strong. “Go home, you'll probably miscarry”. We got a taxi home and didn't even speak. If we didn't say the words than maybe it wouldn't happen.
My next appointment was the following week. No bleeding! I was hopeful. Everything was going to be OK.
At the next week's appointment, the doctor checked my files and was surprised to see I had been in with a bleed. “We'll get you a scan”. The diagnosis was Grade 4 Placenta Previa. I had never heard of it. I wasn't allowed home and was admitted straight away. Two weeks of lying on my back, missing my son terribly and desperately wanting to go home. I'd had no bleeding, no pain, I wanted to go home. Against the doctor's advice I packed my bags and returned home.
Three days later at 7.15pm I went to the bathroom. I will never forget the blood. Quickly, a friend ushered me into his car and we made the hospital in minutes. I had been warned that if this was to happen I had 15 minutes to get medical help, or else.
Arriving at the hospital was the start of the nightmare. Standing at reception my partner desperately tried to explain the situation to the receptionist. I was numb, I just stood there. A woman in the waiting room jumped up and ran over. She started to yell at the receptionist to get help. I didn't realise how much I was hemorrhaging. Still no pain, nothing.
The next 13 hours were the worst of my life. I was admitted onto a ward and left to slowly bleed to death. But the baby's heart beat was strong. I went into labour at 11.30pm. I received some pain relief but they ignored my requests for a doctor. A nurse called Ann, the kindest person I have ever met, stayed with me all night. She held my hand and pleaded with the Matron to get help. The Matron lost the rag with her. Threatened her with disciplinary action if she didn't leave me and get back to work. And told me to stop crying as I was upsetting the other women. Ann never left my side. She held my hand all night. I knew it was bad when I saw tears streaming down her face.
At 8am my doctor arrived. He sat at the edge of the bed. “Unfortunately we have to take the baby out”.
As they wheeled me down to theatre, I felt my life ebbing away. I didn't think of the baby. Does that sound awful? All I could think about was my beautiful little boy at home and how he would cope without having a mother. It was breaking my heart. He was my last thought before the anaesthetic knocked me out.
What I didn't know until years later, because we didn't talk about it, was what the doctor said to my partner outside the theatre that morning. “ We don't know if she'll make it, it's 20% but the baby is 50/50.
Although it all worked out in the end, the effects of being told that the woman you love only has a 20% chance of survival has had devastating long term affects. You don't just get over it. He had to be strong. He had to be the man that cares for his partner and children, keeps working, and be strong. The trauma I went through, feeling the life leave me, being so close to death that I could taste it.
The 8th Amendment meant that the doctor had to wait until my life was “at serious risk” before he could intervene. My life was not as important to them as the life of a baby. I was a mother, a partner, a sister, a daughter and a friend. I had people in my life that loved me. What would their lives have been like if I had died?
Who was there defending my right to life? Who was there defending the rights of my son to have a mother? Who was there defending the rights of my partner to have the woman he loved survive?
I was 12 in 1983 and did not have a vote in my future. My daughter will be three months away from her 18th birthday on May 25th. She does not have a vote in her future.
We all need to take responsibility now for the pain and suffering the 8th Amendment has had on thousands of women's lives over the last 35 years. We must never forget Mother B, The X Case, Savita."

https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/posts/168009873873438:0

Another blow for the "the 8th doesn't affect healthcare" argument.

antiskeptic · 14-05-2018 07:48PM

Igotadose wrote: »

From RTE:
Dr Boylan said he had received the letter and seven of the signatories were not members of the institute.

More liberties with the truth? I guess the gynos in question might be members of the hospital group but not the institute of obstetricians and gynaecologists. Why would that be? Not qualified?

I really would like to see these letters and names posted. I know I wouldn't support any NO signatories as solicitors/barristers or certainly doctors. Actions have consequences.

Speaking of names and qualifications. Anyone know where this public list of 1000+ doctors has been made public?

Any idea how many med students were on it - I mean, would you trust the experience-induced judgment of a student aeroplane designer?

dudara · 14-05-2018 07:50PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Speaking of names. Anyone know where this public list of 1000+ doctors has been made public?

Any idea how many med students were on it - I mean, would you trust the experience-induced judgment of a student aeroplane designer?

It’s available on the Together for Yes website

https://www.togetherforyes.ie/doctors/

B0jangles · 14-05-2018 07:51PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/posts/168009873873438:0

Another blow for the "the 8th doesn't affect healthcare" argument.

I read that this morning - terrifying doesn't begin to describe it.

NuMarvel · 14-05-2018 07:56PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Speaking of names and qualifications. Anyone know where this public list of 1000+ doctors has been made public?

Any idea how many med students were on it - I mean, would you trust the experience-induced judgment of a student aeroplane designer?

No students are on it, as you have to provide an Medical Council Registration number when you sign up, and you can't get a registration number unless you've qualified, i.e. have completed your education.

Overheal · 14-05-2018 07:59PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

No students are on it, as you have to provide an Medical Council Registration number when you sign up, and you can't get a registration number unless you've qualified, i.e. have completed your education.

I also don’t understand the jump from medical student to aeronautics engineering.

14-05-2018 08:15PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/posts/168009873873438:0

Another blow for the "the 8th doesn't affect healthcare" argument.

One of the comments underneath is truly shocking too, a woman who had a caesarean performed on her with no anaesthetic. It's absolutely medieval

sabat · 14-05-2018 08:15PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Another blow for the "the 8th doesn't affect healthcare" argument.

I've read that twice now and all I can gather from it is that she had a difficult pregnancy and birth but that both she and her daughter are alive and healthy. Is there not an inherent contradiction in using her 17 year old daughter as an emotional blackmail chip while simultaneously asserting that she would have gotten rid of her if she had the chance?

wexie · 14-05-2018 08:19PM

Overheal wrote: »

I also don’t understand the jump from medical student to aeronautics engineering.

it's not a great example alright. While I may not give any more credence to a medical students opinion on abortion than I would to John Q Public....I sure as hell would trust an aeronautics engineering student on airplanes over a randomer...

January · 14-05-2018 08:20PM

sabat wrote: »

I've read that twice now and all I can gather from it is that she had a difficult pregnancy and birth but that both she and her daughter are alive and healthy. Is there not an inherent contradiction in using her 17 year old daughter as an emotional blackmail chip while simultaneously asserting that she would have gotten rid of her if she had the chance?

I'm sorry did you not read the part where they almost let the women bleed to death because the foetus was fine?

Sofiztikated · 14-05-2018 08:24PM

sabat wrote: »

I've read that twice now and all I can gather from it is that she had a difficult pregnancy and birth but that both she and her daughter are alive and healthy. Is there not an inherent contradiction in using her 17 year old daughter as an emotional blackmail chip while simultaneously asserting that she would have gotten rid of her if she had the chance?

That's all you took?

January · 14-05-2018 08:25PM

Also nowhere in that post does it say she'd have 'gotten rid of her if she had the chance' so I don't think you actually read it at all.

sabat · 14-05-2018 08:28PM

January wrote: »

I'm sorry did you not read the part where they almost let the women bleed to death because the foetus was fine?

Did you not read this line:

"My daughter will be three months away from her 18th birthday on May 25th. She does not have a vote in her future."

If there hadn't been an 8th amendment she would have no future or past. Like I said, it's hypocritical to use her like this.

January · 14-05-2018 08:30PM

sabat wrote: »

Did you not read this line:

"My daughter will be three months away from her 18th birthday on May 25th. She does not have a vote in her future."

If there hadn't been an 8th amendment she would have no future or past. Like I said, it's hypocritical to use her like this.

This woman was 27 weeks pregnant when she started hemorrhaging. There was no need to let her bleed until near death before performing a cesarean. She didn't want an abortion she wanted a baby.

Wrongway1985 · 14-05-2018 08:31PM

King of Kings wrote: »

if its available here and legal it will become a much easier and common decision .

I sure if the referendum is defeated we can fight the next battle if / when it arises.

It's common anyway, Not sure why anyone wouldn't be for making a painful situation easier tbh.

dark crystal wrote: »

I see my local FF TD, Mary Butler is on. This'll be the first word I've heard out of her mouth since being elected and she's an anti-choicer. Great :rolleyes:

Got in overwhelmingly I believe, friend I work with from the constituency was giving out about her at the time.

Gave her a google and her bio was striking https://www.fiannafail.ie/people/cllr-mary-butler/

These parts in particular...

I am a married mother of 3 and I fully understand the struggles facing today’s families.

I will never settle for the idea that you can have either a strong economy or a fair society but not both.

She understands peoples struggles apparently! and strives for both a good economy and Fair society (excluding pregnant women of course)

Hannibal_Smith · 14-05-2018 08:31PM

sabat wrote: »

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Another blow for the "the 8th doesn't affect healthcare" argument.

I've read that twice now and all I can gather from it is that she had a difficult pregnancy and birth but that both she and her daughter are alive and healthy. Is there not an inherent contradiction in using her 17 year old daughter as an emotional blackmail chip while simultaneously asserting that she would have gotten rid of her if she had the chance?

Difficult? She lost so much blood she had a 20% chance of You by the time the doctors could act. She never said she would have aborted the child if she had the chance. She shared her story to shoe how she was treated. Because the baby's heartbeat was strong, she just had to continue bleeding until she became more serious.

Justin Credible Darts · 14-05-2018 08:36PM

The vast majority of No brigade are hypocrites.

They claim all life is precious but when asked about a rape victim getting pregnant then suddenly that "life is precious" slogan as that is all it is is quickly tossed aside.
They want to cherrypick each case,
Forget that under 12 weeks its not a child, it does not stop them using terms like murder to shout down anyone that dares to have an opinion of their own.

They will use religion, terms like murder, and "unborn" as if this unborn has more rights than a woman.
Abortion is not about religion, its simply about the right of a woman to choose,

Ave Sodalis · 14-05-2018 08:37PM

sabat wrote: »

I've read that twice now and all I can gather from it is that she had a difficult pregnancy and birth but that both she and her daughter are alive and healthy. Is there not an inherent contradiction in using her 17 year old daughter as an emotional blackmail chip while simultaneously asserting that she would have gotten rid of her if she had the chance?

sabat wrote: »

Did you not read this line:

"My daughter will be three months away from her 18th birthday on May 25th. She does not have a vote in her future."

If there hadn't been an 8th amendment she would have no future or past. Like I said, it's hypocritical to use her like this.

I've wrote out and deleted so many posts in reply to these, but I actually can't form the words...

antiskeptic · 14-05-2018 08:47PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

No students are on it, as you have to provide an Medical Council Registration number when you sign up, and you can't get a registration number unless you've qualified, i.e. have completed your education.

here

Its just that RTE said so. Which is why I was looking for the list.

"Doctors from every county in Ireland have added their names to the document including GPs, psychiatrists, obstetricians and medical students."

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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