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Pavee point criticise judge for telling truth

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Comments

  • #392
    mfceiling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Are you sure your not talking about the the Kinhan-Hutch feud?

    And that's not a new tactic btw, drug dealers have been doing that in Ireland since at least the early 1990's, getting younger people to sell the actual drugs & letting them keep a small bit. You seem to know very little for about drug dealing for a Garda.

    You seem to think that some travellers aren't involved in the drugs trade?
    Yeah well I might side with garda on here who has actual real life experience of this if you don't mind.


  • #393
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,524 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Uncharted wrote: »
    Mmm. Perhaps no fear on your own personal behalf. I'll have to accept your opinion on that.

    Although I have seen first hand examples of gardai afraid to approach travellers.
    3 of them sat in the squad car talking out through the window to a hiace van driver while he and his passenger read them the riot act about harassment.
    These were the same two sh1ts found guilty of seriously assaulting a local pensioner.
    There is absolutely no doubt that a lot of Gardai fear this subspecies.
    Whether it's fear of the PC brigade retaliation or physical retaliation, I don't know.

    If there is fear, it's the fear of management coming down on them. You think Gardai don't want to be locking up this scum? Spend a day in court and see the farce that is the system. It's very hard to get a traveller prosecuted unless they're caught in the act, because if 'reasonable doubt' is proven, it has to be thrown out. Maybe things have changed in the last 2 years though.
    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Are you sure your not talking about the the Kinhan-Hutch feud?

    And that's not a new tactic btw, drug dealers have been doing that in Ireland since at least the early 1990's, getting younger people to sell the actual drugs & letting them keep a small bit. You seem to know very little for about drug dealing for a Garda, you actually sound clueless..

    It's not new, but it's relatively new for travellers. But please, continue to tell me how a Garda does their job. Where are you based? Serving long?


  • #394
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    If there is fear, it's the fear of management coming down on them. You think Gardai don't want to be locking up this scum? Spend a day in court and see the farce that is the system. It's very hard to get a traveller prosecuted unless they're caught in the act, because if 'reasonable doubt' is proven, it has to be thrown out. Maybe things have changed in the last 2 years though.



    It's not new, but it's relatively new for travellers. But please, continue to tell me how a Garda does their job. Where are you based? Serving long?

    Well I would if your job was a Garda and not working for tech support an IPTV company.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104103200&postcount=1


  • #395
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,524 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Well I would if your job was a Garda and not working for an IPTV company.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104103200&postcount=1

    I was a Garda, for 10 years up until 18 months ago. Want to know the rest of my employment history also?


  • #396
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    mfceiling wrote: »
    You seem to think that some travellers aren't involved in the drugs trade?
    Yeah well I might side with garda on here who has actual real life experience of this if you don't mind.

    No, there is, but not to the same extent the person who works for the IPTV company thinks there is, either that or they just think every drug dealer is a traveller.


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  • #397
    upandcumming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Well I would if your job was a Garda and not working for tech support an IPTV company.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104103200&postcount=1

    I'm glad to see the real Guards are on the case!


  • #398
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,930 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Well I would if your job was a Garda and not working for tech support an IPTV company.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104103200&postcount=1

    He did say he is no longer in the force. Maybe you should read his posts before making an eejit of yourself.


  • #399
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I was a Garda, for 10 years up until 18 months ago. Want to know the rest of my employment history also?

    Lol, then why are you asking for tips at your current job?

    I'm sorry I've talked to a number of former who worked for the services as my father used to be one, I can't believe any former Garda who just finished working as a Garda would be that clued out on the current so called "war on drugs" (or it actually might give us all great insight into why it's failing).


  • #400
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    He did say he is no longer in the force. Maybe you should read his posts before making an eejit of yourself.

    Thanks Sherlock, I could see that from my first reply to the Garda.

    How the hell a Gaurd or civilian believes travellers contribute this much to the drug problem, is either deluded or has a chip on their shoulder.

    They are them out to be the main drug kingpins in Ireland, when anyone who just takes a quick look at a tabloid would know this is not true. How many of the people in the Hutch Kinhan feud who have been killed or killed someone been travellers?


  • #401
    mfceiling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    No, there is, but not to the same extent the person who works for the IPTV company thinks there is, either that or they just think every drug dealer is a traveller.

    He gave you his own experience of being a serving garda and what he had seen...that's not enough?
    I'd say it's a bigger problem than you know or want to admit.
    Listening to the younger dublin lads on jobs talking about buying weed etc and more than half of them were buying from travellers.
    You don't have to be Hutch or Kinahan to be heavily involved in the drugs trade in ireland.


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  • #402
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,524 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    So, you've never been a Garda yourself? Just words from friends and your father, who i'm guessing is retired so his experience will be completely different to what it's like being a Garda these days. But please do continue to give me the definite information on how drugs are sold in this country. I'll just get back to one of the main dealers where I was based and let him know it's ok, continue dealing, no one will believe a traveller can be that involved in the drugs trade.

    Or maybe you're someone who doesn't know anything outside of Dubland? Actually, i'll retract that. I've no evidence to say this is true or not, so apologies for jumping to a conclusion. And if you didn't detect the sarcasm in my first reply, that's ok. I'll ensure to let you know when I use it in the future. I used it in my first paragraph by the way.

    Or maybe you'd like for me to breach the Data Protection Act, the Garda Siochana Code or the Official Secrets Act and tell you how it actually works and give you the proof? <---More sarcasm.

    Look, just because my view is different to what you heard, doesn't mean it's wrong. Every city and county has different problems. Same general ones, but can be worked completely differently. I've no doubt Hutch and Kinehan and all them other major criminals have the north side of the country sorted for drugs, but they won't run the whole country. Take everything you hear from non-serving/never-served people with a bag of salt. Take everything you hear from current/ex-members with a pinch, because you just can't say certain things for fear of being prosecuted under one of the Acts i mentioned above. That is the real fear in AGS on the Frontline, being hung out to dry by some Sergeant, Inspector or other so they can get promoted.


  • #403
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    I know for a fact from my own experience with both Guards & travellers that letting younger people sell for them on the street & letting them keep some from themselves is not a new tactic by either traveller or non-traveller drug dealers.

    If you were a Garda your experience of seeing them do things in front of your eyes is actually a pleasent one as I know Guards who've been attacked, but not by travelling youths, just working class youth from broken working-class/lower middle class homes in general. One being chased with a car being on the more extreme end.

    Your analysis of the problem of traveller related crime getting worse is also pulled out your arse, with all signs if anything pointing to it improving with more intregated with the settle community & more children finishing school & going on to further education than ever.

    So your views are not based any reality, more on your own personal bias against them, maybe one called you name like lots of youths do to guards. Who cares anyway? Oh, that's right, the right-wing loons care. Maybe in your next job you could become a propagandist for the Democratic Right Movement.


  • #404
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    ^^ and you come across as one of those socialist clowns where its all fun and games and everyone is happy ever after.
    How many of the current travellers are engaging in primary, secondary school and onto college versus how many are still going around robbing houses, battering people and scaring and scamming old people to death?


  • #405
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,524 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    I know for a fact from my own experience with both Guards & travellers that letting younger people sell for them on the street & letting them keep some from themselves is not a new tactic by either traveller or non-traveller drug dealers.

    If you were a Garda your experience of seeing them do things in front of your eyes is actually a pleasent one as I know Guards who've been attacked, but not by travelling youths, just working class youth from broken working-class/lower middle class homes in general. One being chased with a car being on the more extreme end.

    Your analysis of the problem of traveller related crime getting worse is also pulled out your arse, with all signs if anything pointing to it improving with more intregated with the settle community & more children finishing school & going on to further education than ever.

    So your views are not based any reality, more on your own personal bias against them, maybe one called you name like lots of youths do to guards. Who cares anyway? Oh, that's right, the right-wing loons care. Maybe in your next job you could become a propagandist for the Democratic Right Movement.

    See, I must have been doing it wrong for all those years. Thank you for clarifying my own thoughts and experiences, it's nice to know i'm not the only one who has experienced my life!


  • #406
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    Its not just travellers who are involved in the drug trade.

    So called "Republicans" are also major players.


  • #407
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Its not just travellers who are involved in the drug trade.

    So called "Republicans" are also major players.

    The state never turned a blind eye to republicans quite the opposite


  • #408
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Blazer wrote: »
    ^^ and you come across as one of those socialist clowns where its all fun and games and everyone is happy ever after.
    How many of the current travellers are engaging in primary, secondary school and onto college versus how many are still going around robbing houses, battering people and scaring and scamming old people to death?

    No idea , but I've nearly twenty years in a voluntary capacity and nearly ten as a paid full time employee with vulnerable groups and there's been continuous gradual albeit slow change in the behaviour of travellers.
    More and more travellers are finishing school and trying to enter employment , I know this from personal experience .
    Small numbers are going into third level education .


  • #409
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    corner of hells wrote: »
    No idea , but I've nearly twenty years in a voluntary capacity and nearly ten as a paid full time employee with vulnerable groups and there's been continuous gradual albeit slow change in the behaviour of travellers.
    More and more travellers are finishing school and trying to enter employment , I know this from personal experience .
    Small numbers are going into third level education .

    Its still extremely small though and most are probably female? :(
    I feel extremely sorry for their children, women and gay people. None of them have a chance at a normal life and at present most of the males have no inclination to change their lifestyle.
    The Government/CAB needs to severely crack down the gangs, the robbers, the sulky racers, the boxing crap and drag the neanderthals into the 21st century but the whole PC/race thing is gone too far now.


  • #410
    Filmer Paradise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Filmer Paradise


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    See, I must have been doing it wrong for all those years. Thank you for clarifying my own thoughts and experiences, it's nice to know i'm not the only one who has experienced my life!

    Don't worry. EOTR is the only poster that thanks his posts.

    That says it all really.

    Thanks for your insight BTW.


  • #411
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Blazer wrote: »
    Its still extremely small though and most are probably female? :(
    I feel extremely sorry for their children, women and gay people. None of them have a chance at a normal life and at present most of the males have no inclination to change their lifestyle.
    The Government/CAB needs to severely crack down the gangs, the robbers, the sulky racers, the boxing crap and drag the neanderthals into the 21st century but the whole PC/race thing is gone too far now.

    Yep small , not exclusively females.

    Calling somebody a neanderthal ? I've a traveller colleague , he's a nice bloke and a good work colleague.


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  • #412
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    corner of hells wrote: »
    Yep small , not exclusively females.

    Calling somebody a neanderthal ? I've a traveller colleague , he's a nice bloke and a good work colleague.

    he's not the one I'm calling the neanderthal...its the ones who refuse to accept their children are gay, refuse to school their children, marry their children off, refuse to integrate with society..be they travellers, muslims, christian etc they are all neanderthals.


  • #413
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Blazer wrote: »
    he's not the one I'm calling the neanderthal...its the ones who refuse to accept their children are gay, refuse to school their children, marry their children off, refuse to integrate with society..be they travellers, muslims, christian etc they are all neanderthals.

    I suppose the poster who called them vermin a few posts back or the other genius who reckoned they were being awarded disability because they couldn't read and based his post on his mother employing a few of them could be called neanderthal too .


  • #414
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    corner of hells wrote: »
    I suppose the poster who called them vermin a few posts back or the other genius who reckoned they were being awarded disability because they couldn't read and based his post on his mother employing a few of them could be called neanderthal too .

    well what do you expect when the majority of people have negative dealings with them?
    It's not society's fault that travellers refuse to move with the times and are content to leech off the state and engage in illegal activities to fund their lifestyle.
    What do you call the 2 travellers who robbed the old man in Doon and ran as he had a heart attack even as his daughter cried out to them to help her?
    They are vermin and should be treated as such.
    But Pavee Point/travellers refuse to admit that a huge portion of the blame lies with themselves and will not acknowledge it. Its all the settled people's fault.
    You only have to look at the tweets coming out from John Connors to see how deluded they are.
    The sooner they acknowledge their issues and work on resolving them the more people will become more tolerant of them.


  • #415
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Blazer wrote: »
    well what do you expect when the majority of people have negative dealings with them?
    It's not society's fault that travellers refuse to move with the times and are content to leech off the state and engage in illegal activities to fund their lifestyle.
    What do you call the 2 travellers who robbed the old man in Doon and ran as he had a heart attack even as his daughter cried out to them to help her?
    They are vermin and should be treated as such.
    But Pavee Point/travellers refuse to admit that a huge portion of the blame lies with themselves and will not acknowledge it. Its all the settled people's fault.
    You only have to look at the tweets coming out from John Connors to see how deluded they are.
    The sooner they acknowledge their issues and work on resolving them the more people will become more tolerant of them.

    I'm pointing out that travellers are changing albeit very slowly.Im years working with travellers at different levels and change is evident . There's one and maybe more travellers in the Gardai , I know a couple of travellers who were in the army , that in itself suggests change , education and integration.

    I'm by no means defending or excusing criminality.

    I don't have any interaction with Pavee Point , there's actually much effective support groups who slip under the radar


  • #416
    B00MSTICK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭B00MSTICK


    corner of hells wrote:
    I'm pointing out that travellers are changing albeit very slowly.Im years working with travellers at different levels and change is evident . There's one and maybe more travellers in the Gardai , I know a couple of travellers who were in the army , that in itself suggests change , education and integration.

    Unfortunately the problem travellers have is that their culture does not lend itself to modern, civilised living so change is something that really needs to occur and its good to hear that it seems to be happening, albeit very slowly.

    I'll re-post my thoughts from a previous thread here again:

    People can bitch and moan about travellers until the cows come home.
    "They can do A,B, C and get away with it." "They get X,Y,Z for free."
    But taking that into consideration would anyone actually like to be a traveller? Even if they weren't discriminated against at all?

    How would you feel if you had to give up your child to a traveller family? Or if you were somehow re-born into a traveller family?
    It really does seem like a miserable existence.

    - 50% die before they are 40, 70% before they are 60.
    - Huge suicide rates
    - Major health issues due to diet/lack of education etc.
    - Very few are well educated (1% make it to college level)
    - Massive unemployment
    - Awful living conditions
    - Pressure to get involved in shady activities
    - Pressure to marry young and have a lot of children (Religion enters into too I suppose)
    - Lack of parental support/care in general
    - Distrust of authority/settled community (including doctors etc.)
    etc. etc.

    My point is - it is clear that the Travellers way of life is not pleasant for many. In fact, I really pity any child unlucky enough to be born into a traveller family.
    Is it fair to even allow it to continue?
    By this I don't mean a genocide but rather a culling of the antiquated and harmful customs that are part of traveller culture.

    It seems that if you are a traveller and want to get on in life you have to abandon a lot of your "culture" anyway.
    Recent example this college educated traveller - Now lives in an apartment, was married but got divorced, doesnt seem to have kids - certainly not the kind of life/lifestyle that comes to mind when you think of a traveller.

    Taken from an article written by a traveller:
    'The ESRI has described the conditions that most travellers live in as “intolerable”, stating that “no humane and decent society, once made aware of such circumstances, could permit them to persist.”'
    Again settled people are responsible for some part of this, but travellers themselves have to accept that a lot of it is their own doing.

    So using the above, as a "humane and decent society" should we allow the travellers current way of life to continue? How much support can we give them if their very culture is at odds with today's world and inherently causes so much hurt to their own people? Or is it simply our obligation to support them all?

    The main issue in my opinion is education.
    - They are nomadic, they move often, its not conducive to doing well in school.
    - Chances are the parents are not educated to a high level with many leaving after primary school so they get no/little support there
    - There have big families so there's little/no individual attention or help
    - Education is looked down on my some members of the community
    - They are discriminated against by both the settled and traveller community

    I think if we can somehow sort the traveller education issue out we might see them starting to have the type of opportunities and the quality of life settled people enjoy. Until they make a conscience effort to implement change (as a ethnic group as a whole ) then they will remain as they are...


  • #417
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Agreed with what a lot of what was said above ^^.
    But its been decades and for the most part the majority of travellers still refuse to integrate into society. The whole welfare thing has a lot of to blame for it.
    As I said we need to crack down hard on their illegal activities and show them that there is a way forward for them. But they can't keep blaming the settled community for their lack of integration.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink is the old saying.


  • #418
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Oh look another thread by a Fascist on boards.ie about how much he hates travelers.

    Why not start a thread about something positive they've done.
    Daina Moorehouse a 16 year old girl who lives around the corner from me won gold for boxing in for her country in the Euro's 2 weeks ago and is going to the Olympics in 2020. I know her father, uncle & her brother well & their all gentlemen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWJ7SmOVUO8


    So a traveller fights and this is held up as a beacon of hope


  • #419
    JMNolan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭JMNolan


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    See, I must have been doing it wrong for all those years. Thank you for clarifying my own thoughts and experiences, it's nice to know i'm not the only one who has experienced my life!

    You'll always know who to ask if you lose your keys! :D


  • #420
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Blazer wrote: »
    ^^aou cnd yome across as one of those socialist clowns where its all fun and games and everyone is happy ever after.
    How many of the current travellers are engaging in primary, secondary school and onto college versus how many are still going around robbing houses, battering people and scaring and scamming old people to death?

    Ah yes, I do use that old Marxist trick of using facts & common sense to persuade people to my side of the argument to confuse them.

    Well I live in a large urban area, I've probably known over 100 travellers in my life, I'd say the past generation about 90% finished Primiray & went on to Secondary school, and of that 90% about 30% finished Secondary.
    Of the current generation 100% finish Primary & go on to Secondary with about 70-80% of that 100% finishing Secondary and about 50 - 60% go on to further education.

    Again you seem to think crime is a problem with only Travellers. I do know travellers who have been to jail & desrved to be there. But the vast majority of serious & violent crime in my area is carried out by people from the settled community. Like there's been a number of gangland hits carried out in my town in the previous decade or so & none of them have involved travellers.

    And yes, I am a Socialist, but not of the Marxist-Leninist or Trotskyist variety more of the more Luxembergist, Chomskyist & Bennite variety. And if you want to have a debate on political ideology & Marxist theorists I will destroy you.


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  • #421
    Gravelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Ah yes, I do use that old Marxist trick of using facts & common sense to persuade people to my side of the argument to confuse them.

    Well I live in a large urban area, I've probably known over 100 travellers in my life, I'd say the past generation about 90% finished Primiray & went on to Secondary school, and of that 90% about 30% finished Secondary.
    Of the current generation 100% finish Primary & go on to Secondary with about 70-80% of that 100% finishing Secondary and about 50 - 60% go on to further education.

    I don't think the word facts means what you think it means.


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