Half of all TD's are millionaires

uck51js9zml2yt · 14-05-2018 09:15AM

Drove through kilgarvan yesterday. Looked like it should have been renamed Rae-ville.

Grayson · 14-05-2018 09:24AM

Conservatory wrote: »

You can join a political party. Nothing stopping you.
Then spend ten or so years working locally in football teams and charities. Start working your way through other party members.
Once you have the backing run for a top job.
Then magically become a millionaire it’s not rocket science I’m still amazed how few of us do it.

I'd actually be interested in politics except the Indo would have an aneurism when they discovered how many drugs I did in my 20's. And it's just one stupid story after another. And some are very stupid

I really enjoyed myself in my 20's.

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2018 09:28AM

Grayson wrote:

I'd actually be interested in politics except the Indo would have an aneurism when they discovered how many drugs I did in my 20's. And it's just one stupid story after another. And some are very stupid

I really can't find issues with people doing stupid things in their 20's, I did to, it's called life. I'd say being a politician is a dreadful job

14-05-2018 09:29AM

Grayson wrote: »

I'd actually be interested in politics except the Indo would have an aneurism when they discovered how many drugs I did in my 20's. And it's just one stupid story after another. And some are very stupid

I really enjoyed myself in my 20's.

I don't think anyone would hold it against you provided you did no harm as the song goes.

"And all the harm I've ever done
Alas! it was to none but me
And all I've done for want of wit
To mem'ry now I can't recall"

CrankyHaus · 14-05-2018 09:32AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Many of them would be successful high achievers in their professional lives before politics.

Aren't a high proportion of our politicians primary school teachers or publicans? Nothing against either group but it's a bit much to imply our political class put their work with CERN on hold to go and run up a tab in the Dail bar.

14-05-2018 09:36AM

Any auld eejit with property in Dublin is a millionaire these days. The pity is that some of them think their prosperity is down to their own skill, rather than down to the fact that they bought a house they needed to live in in the 1980s and, as a result of a variety of external factors which they had nothing to do with, that has now quadrupled in value.

Guy:Incognito · 14-05-2018 09:44AM

mariaalice wrote: »

I wonder if the trolling by the Independent and to a lesser extent other media has had its day, the vast majority of the population are too media savvy.
.

Maybe have a look at comment sections on social media...........

14-05-2018 09:49AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Maybe have a look at comment sections on social media...........

Its divided between those with a mental health issue.

Believers in conspiracy theories.

General contrarians and cranks.

And a certain amount of sour nasty individuals.

It's not representative of the general population

sbsquarepants · 14-05-2018 10:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Any auld eejit with property in Dublin is a millionaire these days. The pity is that some of them think their prosperity is down to their own skill, rather than down to the fact that they bought a house they needed to live in in the 1980s and, as a result of a variety of external factors which they had nothing to do with, that has now quadrupled in value.

And unless you have a spare house to sell, or are willing to sell up and move to the arsehole of bogsville, that "wealth" is entirely imaginary.
You sell your house and make a quarter million "profit" the next house you buy is a quarter of a million dearer and you're straight back to being a pauper!

dulpit · 14-05-2018 10:30AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd say being a politician is a dreadful job

This. Read the responses to literally any mundane comment a TD puts out on twitter....

TD: "Lovely day today, out walking the dog"
Public on twitter: "Ya, but you suck at everything. Die."

etc etc

I mean, I went to Leo's twitter, he posted a photo from the Darkness into Light walk:

https://twitter.com/campaignforleo/status/995200939870089216

Attached are a selection of the top replies..

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2018 10:37AM

dulpit wrote: »

This. Read the responses to literally any mundane comment a TD puts out on twitter....

TD: "Lovely day today, out walking the dog"
Public on twitter: "Ya, but you suck at everything. Die."

etc etc

I mean, I went to Leo's twitter, he posted a photo from the Darkness into Light walk:

https://twitter.com/campaignforleo/status/995200939870089216

Attached are a selection of the top replies..

thank you, but i just wouldnt be bothered reading comments, some people are just arseholes

Deise Vu · 14-05-2018 10:47AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Stupid article.

I'd be almost half a millionaire if you were to look at where I live but it's mortgaged to the hilt.

People really shouldn't be worried about these things, it achieves nothing but bitterness.

From glancing at the article the vast majority of the wealth is the pension that they award themselves.Given how low annuity rates are these days and I think a TD only needs two terms to be 'entitled' to an income for life, I am surprised that the wealth figures aren't much higher.

This is despite the fact that, realising the pensions we award ourselves in this country are not sustainable the Govt has already taken steps to limiting Public Service pensions (for new entrants of course) and private sector workers have to work until 68 now (which is a cut of about 20% based on average life expectancy).

If nothing else the article highlights the hypocrisy of TDs in relation to the pension issue. Not that I expect people will care. When it comes to pensions people's eyes just glaze over. Happy days for the TDs, this won't even be a 24 hour wonder.

Ubbquittious · 14-05-2018 10:57AM

dulpit wrote: »

This. Read the responses to literally any mundane comment a TD puts out on twitter....

TD: "Lovely day today, out walking the dog"
Public on twitter: "Ya, but you suck at everything. Die."

etc etc

I mean, I went to Leo's twitter, he posted a photo from the Darkness into Light walk:

https://twitter.com/campaignforleo/status/995200939870089216

Attached are a selection of the top replies..

I wonder is it feasible to be a politician and not go on twitter?
After all twitter is just some website made by some US Silicon valley corp.

If I were to run for election would I be putting myself at a serious disadvantage by not bothering with it, or perhaps I'd be gaining ground while the others are still busy wasting time replying to trolls?

dulpit · 14-05-2018 10:58AM

Deise Vu wrote: »

From glancing at the article the vast majority of the wealth is the pension that they award themselves.Given how low annuity rates are these days and I think a TD only needs two terms to be 'entitled' to an income for life, I am surprised that the wealth figures aren't much higher.

This is despite the fact that, realising the pensions we award ourselves in this country are not sustainable the Govt has already taken steps to limiting Public Service pensions (for new entrants of course) and private sector workers have to work until 68 now (which is a cut of about 20% based on average life expectancy).

If nothing else the article highlights the hypocrisy of TDs in relation to the pension issue. Not that I expect people will care. When it comes to pensions people's eyes just glaze over. Happy days for the TDs, this won't even be a 24 hour wonder.

The pension issue is a non-issue though. Think about it - if you decided to run for Dáil, were elected for 2 terms and then walked away or lost seat. You've theoretically lost 10 years of your main career, which could make it very hard to (a) get back into the career you had and (b) get back to decent earnings.

We have 2 choices:

Only have rich people run for Dáil
Renumerate our politicians for the work they do, including pensions/etc.

dulpit · 14-05-2018 10:59AM

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I wonder is it feasible to be a politician and not go on twitter?

In this day and age it's almost a must-have. The only things worse than not having a twitter is having one, but having it publish from Facebook..

Mackerel and Avocado Sandwich · 14-05-2018 11:01AM

I have worked closely with TDs in the past. They’re pretty much working every waking moment. The compensation isn’t all that for what they do. Most of us wouldn’t touch the job with a barge pole but that’s why only certain types get into politics.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-05-2018 11:03AM

Pugzilla wrote: »

Maybe you should move to North Korea if you want everyone to be paid the same.

Maybe the point is that TDS are hardly that representative.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-05-2018 11:05AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Most of those mentioned are millionaires solely by virtue of the non funded pension they will receive.

But so many posters told us they were all entrepreneurs. And to go to North Korea.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-05-2018 11:06AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Its divided between those with a mental health issue.

Believers in conspiracy theories.

General contrarians and cranks.

And a certain amount of sour nasty individuals.

It's not representative of the general population

Social media is probably more representative than here.

Deise Vu · 14-05-2018 11:13AM

dulpit wrote: »

The pension issue is a non-issue though. Think about it - if you decided to run for Dáil, were elected for 2 terms and then walked away or lost seat. You've theoretically lost 10 years of your main career, which could make it very hard to (a) get back into the career you had and (b) get back to decent earnings.

We have 2 choices:
Only have rich people run for Dáil

Renumerate our politicians for the work they do, including pensions/etc.

Firstly, a huge chunk of our TDs are teachers on leave or self employed or professional people. I don't think the Healy-Raes will go hungry nor Alan Shatter, nor Michael McDowell etc etc. If you think 10 years in the corridors of power isn't something that can be leveraged into advancing your career, you mustn't read the papers.

One question that has always bothered me about the Teacher TDs who selflessly keep themselves on the Dept of Education payroll in order to preserves teacher levels at their old school (Michéal Martin's explanation) is, do they claim a teachers pension when they retire too? There was zero chance four or five years ago that Enda and Michéal were ever going to go back teaching, yet they were still on leave of absence from their schools. I wonder why?

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-05-2018 11:28AM

If we didnt pay them enough they could become corrupt accepting bribes etc

eeguy · 14-05-2018 11:39AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

If we didnt pay them enough they could become corrupt accepting bribes etc

Personally I don't believe that.

People are always going to want more money. Maybe the amount of the bribe will increase.

Am I mad in thinking it's not a lot of money? 100k and a 60k pension to live your life entirely in the public eye and be scrutinised for every decision you make.

You have to constantly defend yourself on TV and radio and any opinion you have will torn apart by hack journalists
Your past will be put under a microscope and anyone who thinks they can make a quick buck off a story about you will sell themselves to the papers.
You don't get a moment's peace, have Joe Duffy types constantly on the phone or at your offices looking for a passport or medical card.

You have to deal with the Healy Rae's and the Rosses and the Boyd Barrett's, the Sinn Feiners, the can't pay won't pay brigade, the bankers, the PAC, and all the other pr*cks of the country who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

You couldnt pay me to do that job.

14-05-2018 11:42AM

Deise Vu wrote: »

Firstly, a huge chunk of our TDs are teachers on leave or self employed or professional people. I don't think the Healy-Raes will go hungry nor Alan Shatter, nor Michael McDowell etc etc. If you think 10 years in the corridors of power isn't something that can be leveraged into advancing your career, you mustn't read the papers.

One question that has always bothered me about the Teacher TDs who selflessly keep themselves on the Dept of Education payroll in order to preserves teacher levels at their old school (Michéal Martin's explanation) is, do they claim a teachers pension when they retire too? There was zero chance four or five years ago that Enda and Michéal were ever going to go back teaching, yet they were still on leave of absence from their schools. I wonder why?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/meet-your-52-new-tds-lawyers-teachers-a-techno-dj-34527278.html

The facts

Michael Mc Dowell has not been in politics for years same with Alan Shatter.

14-05-2018 12:02PM

Deise Vu wrote: »

Firstly, a huge chunk of our TDs are teachers on leave or self employed or professional people. I don't think the Healy-Raes will go hungry nor Alan Shatter, nor Michael McDowell etc etc. If you think 10 years in the corridors of power isn't something that can be leveraged into advancing your career, you mustn't read the papers.

One question that has always bothered me about the Teacher TDs who selflessly keep themselves on the Dept of Education payroll in order to preserves teacher levels at their old school (Mich Martin's explanation) is, do they claim a teachers pension when they retire too? There was zero chance four or five years ago that Enda and Mich were ever going to go back teaching, yet they were still on leave of absence from their schools. I wonder why?

What's that saying about the different types of folk?

One talks about people, another talks about events, and another talks about ideas.

I think it's something like that. Anyways, you're replying to the third group from your position in the first group, and you shouldn't feel proud of that.

Deise Vu · 14-05-2018 12:21PM

mariaalice wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/meet-your-52-new-tds-lawyers-teachers-a-techno-dj-34527278.html

The facts

Michael Mc Dowell has not been in politics for years same with Alan Shatter.

I am fully aware Micko and Alan are long retired. The point is they are not starving, with or without their considerable Dáil pensions.

I have no idea what the link to the Indo is meant to signify?

Deleted User wrote: »

What's that saying about the different types of folk?

One talks about people, another talks about events, and another talks about ideas.

I think it's something like that. Anyways, you're replying to the third group from your position in the first group, and you shouldn't feel proud of that.

Que?

14-05-2018 12:29PM

Deise Vu wrote: »

Que?

At the bottom, you have those who can only talk about people.
Above than that are the people who can talk about events and their impact.
And then proper conversation lies in ideas.

We were talking about the idea that a pension is important because a politician gets removed from the workforce for so long. Without it, only the rich can be a politician.

The other guy comes back and attempts to refute an idea that has gone back centuries by throwing out a few random names, like it's remotely relevant in the big picture.

Deise Vu · 14-05-2018 12:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

At the bottom, you have those who can only talk about people.
Above than that are the people who can talk about events and their impact.
And then proper conversation lies in ideas.

We were talking about the idea that a pension is important because a politician gets removed from the workforce for so long. Without it, only the rich can be a politician.

The other guy comes back and attempts to refute an idea that has gone back centuries by throwing out a few random names, like it's remotely relevant in the big picture.

Sorry but that is utter bollox. What about people who don't have a pension already? (About 50% of the population I think). Why are the people who are responsible for the pension rules in the country setting themselves up for better pensions than everyone else? How are they allowed to make decisions that decimate other people's pensions while exempting themselves. Do you really think that is healthy?

If you think Mick & Alan are bad examples can you list a few TDs who have hit hard times financially as a result of their selflessly attending the occasional Dáil Eireann sitting for which they receive tax free travel expenses that are specifically excluded for everyone else in the tax code that these people oversee?

EdgeCase · 14-05-2018 12:42PM

As long as interests are declared and campaign funding is kept within limits and there’s ease of access to politics for new entrants and everything is transparent, I don’t really see the issue.

A lot of these millionaires are paper ones, particularly if it’s based on house values. A lot of urban Irish homes would take you close enough to that and went you throw in pensions and so on, you’re not necessarily talking Monty Burns level of millions.

Also a lot of TDs are genuinely very active individuals, so you’ll typically find plenty of businesses, high flying professionals and entrepreneurs.

The issue I would worry about is any slippage towards US nonsense where you need huge personal wealth to even get on the ticket. That’s why they’ve ended up with dynasties like the Bushes, Clintons and now Trump.

Ireland’s system genuinely has a pretty low financial bar to entry to politics. If you’ve a team behind you, a brass neck and a lot of energy and ideas, you can get elected here.

The PR voting system and multiseat constituency system also keeps it nice and open and limits party control to a large degree.

The fundamental thing here is to ensure that we keep plugging ahead with anti corruption legislation, ensuring transparency and making sure the Standards in Public Office Committee (SIPO) has teeth.

We've genuinely come a long way on all of that since the bad old days 20+ years ago when there was very little in the way of any of that.

We've also got less dominance of the major parties and a more effective opposition than probably at any time in the history of the state, that's definitely helping.

The price of democracy is, however, eternal vigilance - it's something we need to continue to do.

Zebra3 · 14-05-2018 12:43PM

Why do politicians get another pension after two years as a minister?

It’s pure looting, nothing else.

14-05-2018 12:53PM

Deise Vu wrote: »

Sorry but that is utter bollox. What about people who don't have a pension already? (About 50% of the population I think). Why are the people who are responsible for the pension rules in the country setting themselves up for better pensions than everyone else? How are they allowed to make decisions that decimate other people's pensions while exempting themselves. Do you really think that is healthy?

If you think Mick & Alan are bad examples can you list a few TDs who have hit hard times financially as a result of their selflessly attending the occasional Dáil Eireann sitting for which they receive tax free travel expenses that are specifically excluded for everyone else in the tax code that these people oversee?

See your first paragraph is good because that's arguing an idea. The second one is bad because it's about people.

That was my point.

Half of all TD's are millionaires

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