8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Hotblack Desiato · 11-05-2018 01:40PM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

3: Decline in the fertility rate as seen by other countries.

So... let's force women to give birth to get the fertility rate up?

5: Increase in government costs to train doctors and to allocate hospital space to provide for abortions. Increased strain on the health service and increased strain on GPS. Possible worsening of the housing market due to more space allocated for abortion clinics/hospital space?

Sounds logical, because if these women who get abortions didn't get the abortions, they'd give birth at home without any medical intervention whatsoever. You need resources in the health system to visit a GP and take a pill, but you don't need resources in the health system to actually have a baby. Oooookaaaayyyyy....

6: Longitudinal studies (watch what people do rather than what they say) showing that wans who get abortions do psychologically worse than wans who don’t.

Citation needed. I hope you're not making the elementary error of comparing a cohort of women who had a crisis pregnancy with the population in general, most of whom haven't.

9: High probability that the legislation of twelve weeks will be extended out further, again, as seen in other countries.

Which ones?
Britain had 28, it's now 24 and some MPs want to make it 20.
Which countries, and be very specific please, had 12 weeks and then increased it?

10: Clog up of the legal system due to various technicalities.

That's exactly what the 8th does.

11: Possible moral hazard effect? Not sure about this one, but could you see the result in sexually transmitted diseases as a result that abortion is now out there?

That's everything to do with bad sex education and lack of availability/cost of contraception. If we fix those issues then - yay! - we'll reduce unplanned pregnancy too.

13: Decline in revenue for Britain.

True dat. Guaranteed Irish abortions for all, miniature flags made in China for others. Everyone's a winner.

robarmstrong · 11-05-2018 01:42PM

beefburrito wrote: »

Well you're quite the prick yourself, are you man enough to send me a pm and we'll meet at a crossroads somewhere

pleas advice · 11-05-2018 01:43PM

Neyite wrote: »

Any man who votes no out of spite and hatred for women ...

I thought that was all no voters?

beefburrito · 11-05-2018 01:46PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

I'll bring a flask of tea, and you bring the sandwiches and we'll debate away...

Im not asking for a fight FFS

It wasnt me123 · 11-05-2018 01:49PM

beefburrito wrote: »

I'd vote with my conscience.

Its an unfortunate consequence that democracy allows you a vote.

Lads, stop feeding the trolls. He is doing the no side no good, let him off. He will be banned before too long. Don't answer him.

Billy86 · 11-05-2018 01:50PM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

1: Winner effect means that the left will be strengthened in this country and the right will be weakened. Ireland will continue its shift to the left. So more authoritarian left/socialist policies. Voting for 16 year olds, managers of fake news etc.

I'm genuinely unsure if you're raki g the p*ss by suggesting giving women choice rather than dictating to the is authoritarian?

authoritarian, adjective
1. favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

robarmstrong · 11-05-2018 01:51PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Its an unfortunate consequence that democracy allows you a vote.

Lads, stop feeding the trolls. He is doing the no side no good, let him off. He will be banned before too long. Don't answer him.

To be honest I think it's surprising that it's taken around 25,000 posts before the first thinly veiled "fight me in real life bro" was uttered.

zedhead · 11-05-2018 01:52PM

seamus wrote: »

I would go as far as to suggest that every woman who knows their partner is voting No, should put an embargo on sex until the 8th is repealed.

It'd be a landslide

I genuinely don't understand how a woman voting yes can stay in a relationship with someone voting no. My first instinct would be that what would happen if I was to find myself in need of an abortion at some point. It would mean a nasty and hurtful end for both parties. I think an issue like this, similar to if you want children at all, should be discussed as early as possible into a relationship. There are plenty of things (political, morality based etc) that you can disagree on and have a happy relationship. But something like this i think is fundamental.

I have met a few while canvassing who were voting no while their wife was voting yes, and the mind just boggles.

swampgas · 11-05-2018 01:53PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Its an unfortunate consequence that democracy allows you a vote.

Lads, stop feeding the trolls. He is doing the no side no good, let him off. He will be banned before too long. Don't answer him.

Had a quick look at my ignore list (which I've never done before) expecting to see 2 or 3 names. Instead there are 31! Admittedly these have accumulated over quite a few years, and almost all of them are now banned.

beefburrito · 11-05-2018 01:56PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

You're here to protect life and then tell women to go off to England to have abortions.

You're a very uneducated ignorant person.

Probably ignorant in your eyes but more than likely have a lot more letters after my name.

I never told any woman to go off to England, they have their own will to do what they like.

If I was on about stopping a woman from going to England I'd be a control freak and a dick.

I don't give a **** this is about Ireland.

The 8th is a smoke screen for unlimited abortion up to 12 weeks in Canada it's 24 weeks.

If there was abortion for a scenario where a woman could die if she doesn't get rid of the feteus, ok that's different I'd be undecided still.

But as it stands this is going to be a free for all if the 8th goes through.

I love the way people are judging me as a poster and creating an emotive debate rather than a topical debate...

swampgas · 11-05-2018 01:57PM

beefburrito wrote: »

If I was on about stopping a woman from going to England I'd be a control freak and a dick.

You have almost joined the dots .... keep going.

beefburrito · 11-05-2018 01:59PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Its an unfortunate consequence that democracy allows you a vote.

Lads, stop feeding the trolls. He is doing the no side no good, let him off. He will be banned before too long. Don't answer him.

So will you be banned if you keep on attacking the poster rather than the post....

spookwoman · 11-05-2018 02:01PM

beefburrito wrote: »

So will you be banned if you keep on attacking the poster rather than the post....

beefburrito wrote: »

Well you're quite the prick yourself, are you man enough to send me a pm and we'll meet at a crossroads somewhere

:rolleyes:

ELM327 · 11-05-2018 02:03PM

spookwoman wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Don't feed it!
I know it's super tempting.

joe40 · 11-05-2018 02:03PM

beefburrito wrote: »

joe40 wrote: »

Ok a debate.
If Britain were to ban abortion for non British people, (not that outlandish if Ireland give them hassle over the Border) how would you vote.

I'd vote with my conscience.

Which is what?
As for other posters judging your comments, I wasn't sure if your 1st one or two posts was a pisstake or not.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have serious issues to talk about. In terms of the travel thing I'm not sure where you stand so just to be clear, if the situation arose where Irish women were unable to travel to access abortion then you would still vote "no"
If someone close to you found themselves in a difficult position with a pregnancy your view would be sorry you just have to go through with this, England is not an option anymore.
You were very blaise about travel earlier.

Zubeneschamali · 11-05-2018 02:05PM

beefburrito wrote: »

What do you think ?

I don't see how keeping the 8th and then saying that you won't judge people who abort in England is consistent.

How do you pick out the particular classes of people you think undeserving of access to abortion, like the poor or people already in hospital, vs. the well-off who can hop across to England?

beefburrito · 11-05-2018 02:06PM

Ok I'll bow out of the discussion, I'll stick to fishing,surfing and gardening...

Obviously I'm not able to debate this topic.

I wish you all luck with your decisions.

And sorry for offending anyone, it's quiet emotive this for me...

Good luck, and enjoy the weekend....

January · 11-05-2018 02:06PM

I couldn't afford to go to England, hell I was barely able to afford the donation to Women on Web. What would your solution have been for me beefburrito?

kylith · 11-05-2018 02:07PM

beefburrito wrote: »

If there was abortion for a scenario where a woman could die if she doesn't get rid of the feteus, ok that's different I'd be undecided still.

You would be undecided about allowing a woman to have a termination to save her life?

ELM327 · 11-05-2018 02:07PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't see how keeping the 8th and then saying that you won't judge people who abort in England is consistent.

How do you pick out the particular classes of people you think undeserving of access to abortion, like the poor or people already in hospital, vs. the well-off who can hop across to England?

He's another hypocrite.
Claims to be against the 8th and abortion, but yet isn't clamouring for the constitutional entitlement to an abortion (12th and 13th amendments) to be removed

Poor attempt at caricature. I'll give him a B-. Too abrupt.

ancapailldorcha · 11-05-2018 02:22PM

Beefburrito will be taking a small break.

RobertKK · 11-05-2018 02:25PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Should there be wholesale law changes based on hard cases, if hard cases are the minority?

ELM327 · 11-05-2018 02:29PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Should there be wholesale law changes based on hard cases, if hard cases are the minority?

Were you saying that when the supreme court blocked a girl travelling to the UK?

pumpkin4life · 11-05-2018 02:31PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So... let's force women to give birth to get the fertility rate up?

Sounds logical, because if these women who get abortions didn't get the abortions, they'd give birth at home without any medical intervention whatsoever. You need resources in the health system to visit a GP and take a pill, but you don't need resources in the health system to actually have a baby. Oooookaaaayyyyy....

Citation needed. I hope you're not making the elementary error of comparing a cohort of women who had a crisis pregnancy with the population in general, most of whom haven't.

Which ones?
Britain had 28, it's now 24 and some MPs want to make it 20.
Which countries, and be very specific please, had 12 weeks and then increased it?

That's exactly what the 8th does.

That's everything to do with bad sex education and lack of availability/cost of contraception. If we fix those issues then - yay! - we'll reduce unplanned pregnancy too.

True dat. Guaranteed Irish abortions for all, miniature flags made in China for others. Everyone's a winner.

You're too short for this ride.

Paranoid Bob · 11-05-2018 02:32PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Should there be wholesale law changes based on hard cases, if hard cases are the minority?

Yes.
There are entire classes of law that are there to protect and care for minorities.
A minority of people are unemployed, but we have lots of social security law and policy to support them.
A minority of people in this country are black or travellers or members of other 'minorities' and we have anti-discrimination law to protect them.
A minority of people in the country are children, and we have laws to protect them.
A minority are unborn and we have laws to protect them (and will continue to have laws to protect them if this referendum is passed.)

Our society has laws to protect minorities. That is a good thing.

spookwoman · 11-05-2018 02:33PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Should there be wholesale law changes based on hard cases, if hard cases are the minority?

Are those womens lives less important?

NuMarvel · 11-05-2018 02:33PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Should there be wholesale law changes based on hard cases, if hard cases are the minority?

When the law is making hard cases worse, damned right there should be changes.

SusieBlue · 11-05-2018 02:35PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Should there be wholesale law changes based on hard cases, if hard cases are the minority?

Hi Robert, I think you might have missed my post to you this morning. I’m very curious to hear your position and advice to a woman in my situation, especially seeing as you are also so concerned about the smear test scandal.
I’ll post it again for your attention.

SusieBlue wrote: »

Hi Robert, I’m actually delighted you brought up the smear scandal. It reminded me of the question I asked you yesterday that you ignored.

I’m sure you’ve seen me posting about it already, but just to reiterate, I’m 27 and going through treatment and testing for high grade genotyping cell changes in my cervix.

Can you explain to me why its a good thing that if I were to get pregnant tomorrow, I would be denied any further treatment that is stopping me from developing cervical cancer?
And do you think it’s acceptablr that I would not be offered a termination until the cancer had developed and started to kill me?
Thanks

joe40 · 11-05-2018 02:40PM

Where are all the "No" voters? According to the polls there are plenty out there
There are plenty of posters on this site who are no shrinking violets when it comes to challenging what they perceive as PC, Lefty liberal culture taking over, so I can't imagine this thread is particularly intimidating.

There does seem to be a majority "yes" support but that is simply because there is such a lack of "No voters engaging.
I disagree with virtually everything RobertKK says but at least he is fighting the fight, arguing his case. Throws in a few lies and deflection but that is debate.

Where are the rest?
I'll ask the same question I asked earlier and would value a response from some "No" voters.
If Britain bans abortions for non-British people would you still vote no? Be honest!
With Brexit and intense wrangling about the border down the line this is not an outlandish proposition - one the DUP would fully support.

Bannasidhe · 11-05-2018 02:41PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

It's the leaflet that jumps out to me. Even allowing for this being a third party giving us a summary of something someone else looked at just the once, it doesn't resemble anything I've seen on the Yes flyers.

I'd be very interested in seeing this leaflet.
If it is from yes supporters it needs shredding as it is not reflective of what we are campaigning for.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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