8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

robarmstrong

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

How on earth does "genetic science" determine if you're gonna be gay, straight or bisexual? Holy jaysus this entire post is nothing but tinfoil hat time.

SusieBlue

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

Indeed, the hypocrisy of your whole post is astounding.
Voting No but advocating exporting the problem to the UK, you are the very definition of a hypocrite and your entire opinion is based on NIMBYism.

You are absolutely fine with Irish women aborting Irish babies so long as it doesn’t actually happen in Ireland.

I have news for you. Abortion on demand has always been in Ireland and it will continue to be, regardless of the outcome of the referendum.
You aren’t saving lives.
You’re just causing unnecessary suffering to women who are already alive and in need of healthcare.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Hotblack Desiato

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

No point in saying anything more than that this is complete nonsense.

.......

This post has been deleted.

joe40

I think this debate is really quite simple. Irish women are having abortions; over 3000 a year that are known about many more that aren't. Regardless of your personal views on abortion this is happening.
There is no reason to think a yes vote in the referendum followed with the introduction of the proposed legislation will have any significant affect on this number.
It is not like having an IKEA in Dublin so more people will now buy IKEA furniture.
These decisions are a bit more serious than that. I think it is particularly hypocritical of the not sure "No" voter. If you're not sure what is the problem a no vote is just a vindictive "Lets make it more difficult"

I would hazard a guess that a lot of these voters are quite happy to have England as a sort of safety valve to absorb the difficult cases, or if they needed it themselves. "Outsourcing" is a term that has been used a lot in the last 2 weeks in another medical story. It is exactly what we are doing in relation to abortion.

My challenge to no voters is this:
If Britain were to announce a ban on abortions for non British people (anything is possible after Brexit) would you still vote No. I know the there are some people with "absolutist" views on abortion. That's not meant as an insult I disagree, but I get it, but for others do you like having Britain as a back stop.

Neyite

Any man who votes no out of spite and hatred for women deserves to never get the ride again of any woman.

It would be karmic.

Zubeneschamali

beefburrito wrote: »

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all

Ow, ow! Whiplash injury!.

Paranoid Bob

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I had to supply an address and corresponding valid Eircode.

That's much more like it. If all the fundraising sites did that we'd have fewer concerns about illegal foreign donations.
I'm firmly of the opinion that once the dust settles on the recent Facebook / Google decisions the online fundraising will be next under the spotlight and campaign groups that have weak controls preventing illegal donations will feel the heat.


Probably too late for this campaign, but good for the next one.

Hotblack Desiato

Neyite wrote: »

Any man who votes no out of spite and hatred for women deserves to never get the ride again of any woman.

It would be karmic.

What makes you think they ever did.....?

erica74

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

So you think there will be genetic testing to determine a foetus's sexual orientation?

If I had been aborted 30 years ago, I would never have existed so I would not know that I didn't have the chance to exist. If I had been aborted 30 years ago, I would never have been sexually abused by my brother, I would never have been physically and mentally abused by my mother, I would never have been raped when I was 19.

You say you want to protect life but then refer to some children as "brats"?

The women who you know who had bad experiences (whatever you mean by that), kept their children because that is what was right for them. Not every woman who has an abortion actually wants one, the 8th as it stands now and as it will remain if it is not repealed, affects women who are forced to travel to the UK to abort babies that they have wanted their whole lives but who they cannot carry to term for medical reasons.

You're against abortion but sure it's grand across the water, just get a ferry, so you're not really against abortion then?

seamus

Neyite wrote: »

Any man who votes no out of spite and hatred for women deserves to never get the ride again of any woman.

It would be karmic.

I would go as far as to suggest that every woman who knows their partner is voting No, should put an embargo on sex until the 8th is repealed.

It'd be a landslide

Martina1991

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

You're here to protect life and then tell women to go off to England to have abortions.

You're a very uneducated ignorant person.

Sofiztikated

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

The only thing I'm going to say is -

If it's "less than a half a weeks minimum wage" then are those people likely to have a lot of disposable cash?

spookwoman

Reading some posts from the No side about how they are attacked for their views on here, there is no discussion and that yes side are disrespectful.
When you see a No voter calling women murders and killers what do you expect. Have a good look at yourselves are you not killers and murderers yourselves for wanting an amendment that endangers womens lives and even caused their deaths.
No discussion! We are discussing it and for nearly every post the no side puts up there is scientific and real evidence that what you posted is wrong.
Disrespectful. what about the poster that mocked the lady that had the miscarriage. that was vile.
Posters are getting short with the no side, guilty here because we are blue in the face repeating ourselves over and over again on the same subjected that the same no posters keep bringing up.
I see Savita has been brought up again and by one poster that is very very guilty of bringing up the same subjects just for argument. We have already pointed that out using reports and even words from the guy that did the report that savita would more than likely be alive if she had an abortion when she asked for one.

beefburrito

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

But yet they were thinking of killing their own, I guarantee half of ye on this thread wouldn't be here if there was abortion in Ireland 30 year's ago.

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

Exactly because that's what I make of all the drivel I'm reading here....a complete contradiction in one thread.

So I ****ed it all into a blender and threw it on top of all the fck wits

I couldn't give a **** to be honest.

January

Then why bother posting in this thread? To stir up ****.

robarmstrong

beefburrito wrote: »

Exactly because that's what I make of all the drivel I'm reading here....a complete contradiction in one thread.

So I ****ed it all into a blender and threw it on top of all the fck wits

I couldn't give a **** to be honest.

O....k? Are you having an argument with yourself or something?

Is this a Jekyll & Hyde situation here?

pumpkin4life

So I'm going to toss up a list of a few things that will happen as a result of the abortion referendum being passed, as what has happened in other countries, trend wise.

1: Winner effect means that the left will be strengthened in this country and the right will be weakened. Ireland will continue its shift to the left. So more authoritarian left/socialist policies. Voting for 16 year olds, managers of fake news etc.

2: Big boost for Fine Gael and Sinn Fein and hit to Fianna Fail. Probability of the next government being the latter two will increase. Means an increased probability of a united Ireland as well.

3: Decline in the fertility rate as seen by other countries.

4: Increase in mass immigration due to the fall in numbers as seen in point 3 over the long term. The decline in crime that comes from abortion will be made up for by the increased makeup in numbers from abroad.

5: Increase in government costs to train doctors and to allocate hospital space to provide for abortions. Increased strain on the health service and increased strain on GPS. Possible worsening of the housing market due to more space allocated for abortion clinics/hospital space?

6: Longitudinal studies (watch what people do rather than what they say) showing that wans who get abortions do psychologically worse than wans who don’t. Increase in demand for mental health services/counselling services. Although admittedly, there is a bit of a self-selection bias there.

7: Increase in the nihilism/depressed mood of the country. My body/my rules, I can do whatever I want etc.

8: Decline in the abortion pill/health effects from self imposed abortions.

9: High probability that the legislation of twelve weeks will be extended out further, again, as seen in other countries.

10: Clog up of the legal system due to various technicalities.

11: Possible moral hazard effect? Not sure about this one, but could you see the result in sexually transmitted diseases as a result that abortion is now out there?

12: People who are evil ****ups never born, but maybe the next Einstein never born either? Though probably more chance of the latter because low IQ is associated with crime and abortion is apparently something that women with lower IQs do more.

13: Decline in revenue for Britain.

Happy days for all involved!

beefburrito

Sofiztikated wrote: »

The only thing I'm going to say is -

If it's "less than a half a weeks minimum wage" then are those people likely to have a lot of disposable cash?

Fck em, I'm OK Jack

I got a load of bollix thrown at my post, savages out justifying I am a hypocrite...

No abortion in Ireland is no.

In extreme medical conditions it's right to save the mother of the pregnancy is endangering her life and the baby won't survive.

In all Fckn fairness, if the baby is able to survive it is possible to try and save the kid, and operate on the mum, if her life is in danger the kid could possibly survive....

A dog with a mallet up his hole knows that aborting a healthy child from a healthy pregnancy is wrong....

joe40

pumpkin4life wrote: »

So I'm going to toss up a list of a few things that will happen as a result of the abortion referendum being passed, as what has happened in other countries, trend wise.

1: Winner effect means that the left will be strengthened in this country and the right will be weakened. Ireland will continue its shift to the left.  So more authoritarian left/socialist policies. Voting for 16 year olds, managers of fake news etc.

2: Big boost for Fine Gael and Sinn Fein and hit to Fianna Fail. Probability of the next government being the latter two will increase. Means an increased probability of a united Ireland as well.

3: Decline in the fertility rate as seen by other countries.

4: Increase in mass immigration due to the fall in numbers  as seen in point 3 over the long term. The decline in crime that comes from abortion will be made up for by the increased makeup in numbers from abroad.

5: Increase in government costs to train doctors and to allocate hospital space to provide for abortions. Increased strain on the health service and increased strain on GPS.  Possible worsening of the housing market due to more space allocated for abortion clinics/hospital space?

6: Longitudinal studies (watch what people do rather than what they say) showing that wans who get abortions do psychologically worse than wans who don’t. Increase in demand for mental health services/counselling services. Although admittedly, there is a bit of a self-selection bias there.

7: Increase in the nihilism/depressed mood of the country. My body/my rules, I can do whatever I want etc.

8: Decline in the abortion pill/health effects from self imposed abortions.

9: High probability that the legislation of twelve weeks will be extended out further, again, as seen in other countries.

10: Clog up of the legal system due to various technicalities.

11: Possible moral hazard effect? Not sure about this one, but could you see the result in sexually transmitted diseases as a result that abortion is now out there?

12: People who are evil ****ups never born, but maybe the next Einstein never born either? Though probably more chance of the latter because low IQ is associated with crime and abortion is apparently something that women with lower IQs do more.

13: Decline in revenue for Britain.

Happy days for all involved!

Points 1 and 2 are contradictory, does the list get any better?

beefburrito

robarmstrong wrote: »

O....k? Are you having an argument with yourself or something?

Is this a Jekyll & Hyde situation here?

You're going off topic now because you're unable to debate, so you decide to be a smart arse.

Zubeneschamali

pumpkin4life wrote: »

So I'm going to toss up a list of a few things that will happen as a result of the abortion referendum being passed, as what has happened in other countries, trend wise.

What about Sharia law? I thought we were voting for Sharia law, unsafe sex and real potatoes, none of your little wet French soap balls.

robarmstrong

beefburrito wrote: »

You're going off topic now because you're unable to debate, so you decide to be a smart arse.

No no, I'm perfectly able to debate, I just don't really think you are, not yet anyways.

joe40

beefburrito wrote: »

robarmstrong wrote: »

O....k? Are you having an argument with yourself or something?

Is this a Jekyll & Hyde situation here?

You're going off topic now because you're unable to debate, so you decide to be a smart arse.

Ok a debate.
If Britain were to ban abortion for non British people, (not that outlandish if Ireland give them hassle over the Border) how would you vote.

robarmstrong

beefburrito wrote: »

You're going off topic now because you're unable to debate, so you decide to be a smart arse.

beefburrito wrote: »

Im voting no for definite

If there's a yes...

There's going to be some S H I T storm in a few year's down the road.

Speculation woop woop!

beefburrito wrote: »

When genetic science gets more advanced, if someone doesn't want a gay kid, bisexual, intellectualy challenged or adhd kid they'll have the option of aborting it.

Again, more speculation. When genetic science gets to the stage where it can determine the sexual orientation of a fetus or any "ADHD" then I'll sit down with you and have a lovely discussion about that. Until then? Ridiculous tinfoil hat style nonsense.

beefburrito wrote: »

More than a few of the people voting yes wouldn't be here now if this came through.

Im voting no because I'm here to protect the life of people who in some of your shoes won't have a future.

If if if if if - so no definite? Yep, more speculation.

beefburrito wrote: »

Get the plane or ferry off to England, it's probably less than half a week's minimum wage return.

What about those who are homeless? I suppose they'll have to up their begging in this hypothetical scenario, right?

beefburrito wrote: »

The hypocrisy of it all, women I know year's ago who were thinking of aborting their kids who now dote on their brats are voting yes.

Or maybe they did something called "growing up" and realized that they had a choice to abort or continue the pregnancy, obviously choosing to continue the pregnancy. They had a choice, they chose. Only brats vote yes, is that it?

Am I a brat for voting yes because I don't want my partner to suffer endless miscarriages due to her uterine abnormalities until the embryo implants in the right place?

beefburrito wrote: »

Im grateful for life, I know a few women who had bad experiences and kept their kid's.

Yeah, that's great, but they chose to keep their kids. They made their choice, didn't they?

beefburrito wrote: »

They'ed die for their boys and girls.

I'd die for my daughter, but I sure as sh!te won't be sending her off across the water to seek an end to a pregnancy she doesn't want regardless of my personal beliefs.

beefburrito

robarmstrong wrote: »

No no, I'm perfectly able to debate, I just don't really think you are, not yet anyways.

Well maybe my style is too country for you.

But I don't think this 8th amendment is going to be good for Ireland or our future generations.

I can see the yes sides argument, I can empathize with someone who got pregnant by mistake, ie burst condom, or the guy didn't pull out on time but lied to herself about it and she felt safe.

I don't have to write a thesis on my reasons for no.

Im absolutely powerless to is everyone else to stop someone going to the UK for an abortion, the reason I said that is basically Fck it go to the UK if you need to its your decision, I won't judge you.

Im not voting yes simple as.

As for sexuality it's definitely genetic, it's not a choice.
People are born that way, and science will sometime be able to determine what sexuality a kid will be born with.
I guarantee that.

And a lot of parents might want to have the grand kids etc, now I don't want to argue about same sex couples adopting kids or getting a sperm donor that will only throw the Pike amongst the Rudd.

I've no problem with same sex couples adopting kids myself or getting sperm donation, Im bisexual myself...

What I would have a problem with is people aborting kids who'll be of a sexual orientation the parent's might not want....

What do you think ?

robarmstrong

beefburrito wrote: »

What do you think ?

That you're talking a load of bollocks.

beefburrito

joe40 wrote: »

Ok a debate.
If Britain were to ban abortion for non British people, (not that outlandish if Ireland give them hassle over the Border) how would you vote.

I'd vote with my conscience.

beefburrito

robarmstrong wrote: »

That you're talking a load of bollocks.

Well you're quite the prick yourself, are you man enough to send me a pm and we'll meet at a crossroads somewhere

Banned.