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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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  • #2312
    Moiratat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭Moiratat


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Hi, honestly I'm not getting into it anymore there's no point, there is no debate,only ridicule. I've made my position clear, I'm voting no but would have voted yes under different circumstances like many,many no voters

    I understand where you are coming from, but it works both ways and I don't plan on ridiculing you, I would genuinely like to know how you would've dealt with the situation I was in, we can keep it respectful like adults and I won't ridicule you if you don't ridicule me. We can debate like adults with no name calling or insults.
    Edit: so far I have not received any answers


  • #2313
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Legislation

    Legislation can be changed. Legislation can be protested, lobbied against, amended, fixed.

    An amendment like the 8th allows no such wiggle room. This is our one chance to abolish this, and from there we can protest and argue and fix things in the weeks months and years that follows.

    Keeping the 8th only means continued torture of women and girls in this country.

    A No vote is not the middle ground. A no vote is an extreme position. A no vote helps nobody. A No vote will not stop women being left waiting to die before anyone can help them. A No vote will not stop women who had to travel due to FFA receiving their baby's ashes in the post. A No vote will not stop women being denied life saving treatments if they become pregnant.

    A No vote allows for no grey areas. It allows for no reasoning, no "oh but maybe in this ONE case..." There is nothing. If you vote No, you vote to condone the suffering women have and will continue to go through.

    If you don't like abortion up to 12 weeks, I obviously disagree, but that's fine. Okay. We can work with that. It's your right to say "I don't like this part of the legislation, and I'd like to change it."

    But voting to retain the 8th does not allow that.

    Voting No only causes women and girls more suffering. It causes later term abortions by the time they gather the money and get the time to travel. If a 12 week abortion makes you uncomfortable, what about a 16 week one that could've been performed at 7 weeks?

    Does your compassion for the foetus not extend to those of us living and breathing right now?

    If you were to choose between a 2 inch long bundle of something fleshy, something about to begin resembling a human but that does not yet have a brain, does not possess any sentience,

    or a girl who is screaming and sobbing, who is being forced to carry it to term against her will, who is visibly distressed, whose individuality is known and admired by those close to her, whose entire future is dependent on her ability to make her own decisions about her own life, what would you choose?

    I'm not going to try to convince you that you should embrace abortion up to 12 weeks with open arms. It's clear to me you are uncomfortable with it.

    But I am telling you, that voting No isn't how to stop it. It only creates more desperation, more shame, more distress, and leaves absolutely NO middle ground for discussion on women who need life saving treatment, who are suffering with debilitating illness, women who have been raped, women who have been abused, women being forced to carry a foetus which is already dying, women carrying a much wanted foetus whose brain is growing outside its skull.

    None of this can be legislated for, none of this can be helped, none of these women can be assisted, nothing can be done for these women while the 8th remains in place.

    A vote No is in support of keeping all of this.


  • #2314
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Just been for a walk and there are two new No posters at the end of my road.

    One says "Babies will have NO rights" and the other says "6 months is horrific. Vote NO" .

    Hard to argue that kind of blinkered viewpoint.


  • #2315
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Just been for a walk and there are two new No posters at the end of my road.

    One says "Babies will have NO rights" and the other says "6 months is horrific. Vote NO" .

    Hard to argue that kind of blinkered viewpoint.
    Posters like that should be banned for misinformation


  • #2316
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #2317
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,159 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Moiratat wrote: »
    I understand where you are coming from, but it works both ways and I don't plan on ridiculing you, I would genuinely like to know how you would've dealt with the situation I was in, we can keep it respectful like adults and I won't ridicule you if you don't ridicule me. We can debate like adults with no name calling or insults.
    Edit: so far I have not received any answers

    Unfortunately I don't think you'll get any answers, as your situation makes these people very uncomfortable. Of course you did the right thing, anyone with a modicum of sense and empathy can see that, but they can't admit that as it's in conflict with their position. So they'll just ignore your question.

    I imagine this whole debate is difficult for you to listen to, but know that you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. This country should be ashamed for what it put you through. Look after yourself.


  • #2318
    crustybla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭crustybla


    bootpaws wrote: »
    I understand and respect that some Yes voters need to maintain relationships with people who are firmly on the No side, be it for professional or personal reasons. But I have no respect for anyone voting No. I have none.

    Where's their respect for me when they're voting to retain an amendment that would force doctors to wait for me to literally start dying before receiving healthcare?

    Sorry, I don't care how cute you think the early stages of a foetus is. It's a foetus. It's not sitting in there for 9 months for the craic of it. It requires 9 months to develop into a baby. It's not a baby at 12 weeks.

    Meanwhile I'm a grown living breathing woman, and I deserve healthcare. I deserve to not be DYING before being taken care of.



    You're absolutely disgusting if you think that's a normal thing to overlook when voting.

    This x100.


  • #2319
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Posters like that should be banned for misinformation

    That's the main reason why I fear that No could win. A canvasser could call around only once, but one could see dozens of posters a day - and guess which side has more of them?


  • #2320
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,159 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    That's the main reason why I fear that No could win. A canvasser could call around only once, but one could see dozens of posters a day - and guess which side has more of them?

    I agree, and can't understand how it's allowed.

    I think the TV debates will be hugely important, it's the best opportunity the Yes side will have to debunk the lies in front of a large audience.


  • #2321
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    I agree, and can't understand how it's allowed.

    I think the TV debates will be hugely important, it's the best opportunity the Yes side will have to debunk the lies in front of a large audience.

    Write up on the why it's allowed.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/inaccurate-referendum-posters-3962350-Apr2018/


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  • #2322
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Just been for a walk and there are two new No posters at the end of my road.

    One says "Babies will have NO rights" and the other says "6 months is horrific. Vote NO" .

    Hard to argue that kind of blinkered viewpoint.
    On the "Babies will have NO rights" poster, as many people will know only a while ago the supreme court ruled that the unborn has no rights under the Constitution other than the right to life in the Eighth Amendment, repeal the 8th altogether the unborn has no rights at all- that,s what the first poster you mentioned would be referring to.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0307/945560-supreme-court-rights-of-unborn/


  • #2323
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    On the "Babies will have NO rights" poster, as many people will know only a while ago the supreme court ruled that the unborn has no rights under the Constitution other than the right to life in the Eighth Amendment, repeal the 8th altogether the unborn has no rights at all- that,s what the first poster you mentioned would be referring to.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0307/945560-supreme-court-rights-of-unborn/

    Expect that a fetus isn’t a baby.


  • #2324
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    On the "Babies will have NO rights" poster, as many people will know only a while ago the supreme court ruled that the unborn has no rights under the Constitution other than the right to life in the Eighth Amendment, repeal the 8th altogether the unborn has no rights at all- that,s what the first poster you mentioned would be referring to.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0307/945560-supreme-court-rights-of-unborn/

    except that it's not.
    babies have rights, the same as the rest of us living breathing citizens of the state.
    a foetus won't have rights once the 8th is repealed.


  • #2325
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    On the "Babies will have NO rights" poster, as many people will know only a while ago the supreme court ruled that the unborn has no rights under the Constitution other than the right to life in the Eighth Amendment, repeal the 8th altogether the unborn has no rights at all- that,s what the first poster you mentioned would be referring to.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0307/945560-supreme-court-rights-of-unborn/

    Somehow this is the case in most every other country in the world, and yet babies are still being born and the world has continued to turn.

    Or do you think Ireland is the only place in the world where healthy babies are born due to the fact that we offer women no choices?


  • #2326
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,440 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Anyone who thinks this is about posters and canvassers is wrong.

    Posters are yesterdays news, yesterdays medium. Folk will tell canvassers what they want to hear to move them along, especially on this of all issues.

    This is about the hard cases, the big moments, the David v Goliath TV debates and they tend to push a polarity. Social media on the matter is an impenetrable mire.

    The key detail from the Indo poll this weekend is that a majority think the 12 week proposal is "about right". Ergo, that threshold becomes a bit of a red herring. This takes us back to the key question of abortion, in principle. In favour or against it, in any or all circumstances. If the campaigns want focus, one side will be beating on "compassion", the other on "killing" for the next 18 days. The rest is just semantics.

    There are a couple of important TV debates still to come. Again, Yes must be seen not to patronise or minimise, No will have to keep a lid on the obfuscation and grandstanding.

    It may seem this is for 'Yes' to lose, and it probably is, but they will need to watch out for the banana skins and not getting dragged into the philosophical issues. And the nearer we get the more goaded they will be.


  • #2327
    indy_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭indy_man


    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.


  • #2328
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.

    At least abortions will be illegal then.

    Fewer choices for women in general too, so it’s not all bad.

    I will miss the Friday night pint though.


  • #2329
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.

    So you're saying that repealing the 8th will bring Sharia Law to Ireland?

    Would ya go and sh!te.


  • #2330
    indy_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭indy_man


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    So you're saying that repealing the 8th will bring Sharia Law to Ireland?

    Would ya go and sh!te.


    I said its helping to being Sharia law to England, no doubt it will have other negative benefits here over time, one being an ageing population and no one to pay pensions.


  • #2331
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.

    Ok last week it was a communist plot according to one of the links you posted on another thread, now it's a Muslim plot.

    Or is it a commie/Muslim double act?

    What happened to it being a Wicca plot?


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  • #2332
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Good grief, how many red herrings, have you at the bottom of your barrell?


  • #2333
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.



    The vote on May 25 is not a Yes or No vote to introduce abortion because it is already here in Ireland.


    Getting tablets one way or another or getting time off and going on a ferry or a plane

    Neither of which are the best idea for all the reasons listed many times in this thread alone


  • #2334
    bootpaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭bootpaws


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.

    Yeah it's much less threatening when the people enforcing their religious beliefs on us are white.


  • #2335
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Someone give that man a trophy. Its the most far fetched reason for not repealing the 8th I've ever read. Ever.


  • #2336
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.
    What better way to finish up a bank holiday weekend, than a wind up post like this.


  • #2337
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    indy_man wrote: »
    I said its helping to being Sharia law to England, no doubt it will have other negative benefits here over time, one being an ageing population and no one to pay pensions.
    indy_man wrote: »
    ......................

    one being an ageing population

    We already have that because better healthcare


    OMG Its a conspiracy to cripple countries by foreign healthcare suppliers


  • #2338
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    indy_man wrote: »
    I said its helping to being Sharia law to England, no doubt it will have other negative benefits here over time, one being an ageing population and no one to pay pensions.

    i presume you have some statistics / link to prove that abortion in England is bringing in sharia law?
    abortion is legal since the 1960's I believe in England.
    muslims also have a much more liberal view of abortion than Catholics.


  • #2339
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    indy_man wrote: »
    one being an ageing population and no one to pay pensions.

    so, do you believe women in Ireland should be used like breeding cows so there are people to pay for your pension??


  • #2340
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Right so far we have:

    - Horrific misogynistic views of women
    - establishment of "rape" committees
    - vasectomies
    - forced hysterectomies
    - forced birth so the babies can grow up and pay people's pensions
    - repealing the 8th in Ireland helps bring Sharia Law to England

    I don't even know what to say anymore so I'll just respond to the above with a nice gif that I may have used already, sorry!

    john-cena-stunned-animated-gif.gif


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  • #2341
    frag420
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,161 ✭✭✭frag420


    indy_man wrote: »
    One thing which came into my mind from an earlier post was the repercussions from Abortion being legal in Ireland, I thought of where England is heading partly because of their extremely liberal abortion policy. Sharia Law! The English population is dwindling but the Muslim population is growing at a rapid rate. Some Imans have declared this fact a miracle from Allah. Yes Sharia Law in our lifetimes all because we want more and more choice.

    Conspiracy Theories, second door on your left >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


This discussion has been closed.
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