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The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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    #2672
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »
    Id agree with Outlaw Pete. If pro life, keep your head down and stay quiet is the motto.
    baylah17 wrote: »
    Pure petty rubbish and an abuse of this thread to take cheap shots at moderators.
    uptherebels wrote: »
    Stop acting the victim. The only person who can get you thread banned is yourself.
    To many pro lifers think they can post what they want, unsupported claims, outright lies, scaremongering etc and them cry they are getting attacked when this is pointed out to them.t
    Beasty wrote: »
    On the topic of the 8th, I have simply not been following the thread (I don't get a vote).
    ....


    It's arguably far too serious for many who look for a bit of light heartedness in AH, and it's possible that the mods are acting as much out of the reactions some comments are getting, be it in the thread itself or reported posts (and I've just mentioned elsewhere that topic, within 2 or 3 threads in AH alone, has resulted in around 500 reported posts since the turn of the year)

    In relation to the posts above, and ON TOPIC in terms of this thread, I've this to say:

    1. Moderators, in general, whatever the forum, who moderate whatever forum where potentially adversarial or contentious threads are created- -and the Yes/No referendum thread is one such thread- should take a giant leap back- and desist from contributing to that thread, and should only moderate that thread.

    2. I agree with Beasty- we need a new forum for issues/threads such as these- AH is not the place- but even then, Moderators of such a forum should be excluded from contributing- only moderating.


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    #2673
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,589 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Deleted User wrote: »
    2. I agree with Beasty- we need a new forum for issues/threads such as these- AH is not the place- but even then, Moderators of such a forum should be excluded from contributing- only moderating.
    We would need to think about the structure of the forum. I don't think it's right to prevent mods posting in a forum they moderate - ideally they need some empathy with/interest in the underlying topic otherwise moderation becomes a chore and enjoyment of the site diminishes

    I fully accept though that we should try and avoid mods contributing to and moderating potentially contentious threads. Ideally if we get it right there will be enough mods to minimise the risk of that. As already mentioned in the forum request thread I think it may take some time to get the moderation right, and equally such a forum should initially be introduced on a trial basis, with a review after, say, 6 months.

    I certainly don't want the popularity of AH to diminish, not in a material fashion anyway. I think though it is likely that some traffic would drift over to a new forum. However that may encourage others to return to (or start) posting in AH, as I think it may then appear less intimidatory to some


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    #2674
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    At first I thought a current affairs forum was a great idea but now I wonder if it would cause a big loss to After Hours. Where do we draw the line with what's current affairs and what isn't? At the minute almost every thread here could fall in to that category I think.


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    #2675
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Let's be honest: After Hours is dead and it died / was killed some time ago now. A FB post I wrote in 2011 (where does time go):
    OutlawPete wrote: »
    There is quite a lot of "This is NOT After Hours" levelled at users around Boards.ie and (at times) that's fine, but I think it's time we heard more of: "This IS After Hours!" from it's moderators. I am sick of users coming on to AH, that have little of no concept of what the forum is about, stamping their feet when comments are made because they wouldn't be acceptable elsewhere on Boards. They should stay away if they don't like the content. I find what's posted in tLL to be wholly objectionable, so I stay from the place (bar once, you live you learn).

    Yes I know it's 'general topic' / 'current affairs' forum (perhaps there is an argument for such a forum?) but AH is far far more than just a gerneral topic forum. It's tone and spirit was long since decided upon. That's why Nein11 and the like came into being, as their humour wasn't welcome in AH, you don't see those users running to Feedback demanding to be allowed to tell dead baby jokes there. If users don't like the humour in AH, then on you go.

    [big boobs rant snipped]

    TL;DR

    After Hours is very popular, receives the traffic and it does so because of the way it has been modded down the years. Some excellent mods have put in an extraordinary amount of time (Bollocko & Javaboy particularly in more recent years, the rest all have lovely bottoms too). Mods that went out of their way to engage with it's core regulars and newbies alike and all in an effort to make sure the tone and spirit of AH remained. Losing the abuse on After Hours is one thing, sanitising the forum to within an inch of its life, just because there are a few users who don't get the forum, is quite something else.

    Reading this now just reminds me of how much things have changed despite the gallant efforts of some decent mods/smods down the years. The sanitization of AH has absolutely taken place though and at the behest of those who always hated the place and resented that it was largely what was responsible for the success of Boards.ie. Much like how the Kardashians want to forget all about that sex tape.

    So, let After Hours rest in peace I say and just rename this forum 'Current Affairs' as to continue to call it After Hours is to do so in just name only, as the ethos and spirit of the forum that once was, has long since passed.


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    #2676
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,589 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I think one of the problems with AH, and it's something that's relevant across the site, is that people are always looking to take offence. Yes we encourage people to report anything they have an issue with, but I've just looked up some stats

    Across the site we have seen about 360,000 posts reported over the past 12 years. 65,000 of those have been in AH.

    Over the past 12 months we've seen 25,000 posts reported across the site reported, but 10,000 of those have been in AH

    The sheer numbers of posts being reported makes it difficult for mods to judge where to draw the line, while trying to reflect user desires/feedback/demands through those reported posts. I don't see it as much a "sanitisation" via any direction given/taken at mod, CMod or Admin level. I accept there has been additional scrutiny applied and action taken on the back of the increasing number of reports, but in my view it's as much the userbase driving that as any of the "powers that be"

    I do think though that running a "Current Affairs" forum alongside AH is worth a try. Hopefully that will allow AH to become more of a "fun" place again, while some of the more serious topics can still be discussed in a new forum with a little more "freedom" and "light-heartedness" than we currently see in the 2 Politics forums

    All of this does require the buy-in of the userbase, and preferably a more relaxed approach rather than looking to offend, or be offended, by what they read in either or indeed both forums

    If after 6 months we feel it's not working, well at least we tried something different. Ultimately though content and therefore interest is driven by the users


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    #2677
    Infernum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Infernum


    I'm guessing as social media grows, people just view forums as a relic of old methods of communication on the internet.


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    #2678
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Beasty wrote: »

    Over the past 12 months we've seen 25,000 posts reported across the site reported, but 10,000 of those have been in AH

    The sheer numbers of posts being reported makes it difficult for mods to judge where to draw the line, while trying to reflect user desires/feedback/demands through those reported posts.


    Maybe you need a new AH rule:

    giphy.gif


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    #2679
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Some people are spamming threads with the same dogma. They aren't interested in debate they just want to rant They are moving to AH because they have destroyed all discussion elsewhere. A lot of trolling and baiting is ignored these days. But it makes it pointless trying to post.

    Similarly a lot of threads are very one sided. Pointless posting in them as well.

    Theres a few back waters with a few knowledgeable posters. But a lot of the good people have left. Driven off by argumentive people just looking to argue the whole time.


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    #2680
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Infernum wrote: »
    I'm guessing as social media grows, people just view forums as a relic of old methods of communication on the internet.

    Social media is easier because most of it goes unchallenged. So you can put up a load of drivel and like minded people give themselves validation.


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    #2681
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Beasty wrote: »
    I do think though that running a "Current Affairs" forum alongside AH is worth a try. Hopefully that will allow AH to become more of a "fun" place again, while some of the more serious topics can still be discussed in a new forum with a little more "freedom" and "light-heartedness" than we currently see in the 2 Politics forums

    All of this does require the buy-in of the userbase, and preferably a more relaxed approach rather than looking to offend, or be offended, by what they read in either or indeed both forums

    If after 6 months we feel it's not working, well at least we tried something different. Ultimately though content and therefore interest is driven by the users


    Wasn't that supposed to be the point and aim of the Politics Cafe?

    I'm not attempting to be smart or anything, but I just don't see the point of creating yet another forum which appears to me at least to be an exact duplicate of an already existing forum, one that now requires people to be pre-approved before they can post, due to the fact that in it's previous incarnation it became everything but the free and light hearted forum it was meant to be due to posters inability to take a relaxed approach to posters disagreeing with them and taking offence when challenged.

    Ultimately the content of any forum is driven by the Moderators of the forum who, when posts are reported, have the ability to use their judgement as to the direction they want the forum to take, and the ethos of the forum, and the atmosphere in the forum, and on that basis decide whether or not to take action against a users post.

    If the content of any forum were driven by it's users, the Feedback forum wouldn't be in the state it's in now where it's impossible to find anything with all the redirected threads to all the various other forums - Help Desk, DRP, geez whatever other sub-forums are in there that I can't even remember now. It just appears like some sort of a divide and misdirect strategy is in place to dilute down any feedback (why is this thread even in AH? Would it not be a better strategy to promote and make people aware of the Feedback forum?).

    Fixing the Search function would make more sense from my point of view than creating even more nested forums making the site slower and more frustrating to navigate. With 999 forums, it's difficult to argue that lack of content is the problem. It's simply that the content is just hard to get to.


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    #2682
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    beauf wrote: »
    Some people are spamming threads with the same dogma. They aren't interested in debate they just want to rant They are moving to AH because they have destroyed all discussion elsewhere. A lot of trolling and baiting is ignored these days. But it makes it pointless trying to post.

    Similarly a lot of threads are very one sided. Pointless posting in them as well.

    Theres a few back waters with a few knowledgeable posters. But a lot of the good people have left. Driven off by argumentive people just looking to argue the whole time.

    This for me is the biggest turn off from many AH threads. Long time glorified trolls who have been warned off other forums and either dump the same old dogma in thread here, post bland comments that they won't stand over or discuss when challenged, drag threads off topic and even put anybody who disagrees with them on Ignore, which stifles debate. There are great people here and many great discussions but often one has to ask what the point is when such people are tolerated .


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    #2683
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,307 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Deleted User wrote: »
    At first I thought a current affairs forum was a great idea but now I wonder if it would cause a big loss to After Hours. Where do we draw the line with what's current affairs and what isn't? At the minute almost every thread here could fall in to that category I think.
    It wouldn't cause much loss to AH, if anything it would be the Politics and Politics Cafe forums that would take the hit IMO.


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    #2684
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    beauf wrote: »
    Social media is easier because most of it goes unchallenged. So you can put up a load of drivel and like minded people give themselves validation.

    This, no fun debating in an echo chamber with nothing more than like minded individuals, who will agree with each other no matter how wrong they are.


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    #2685
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    At first I thought a current affairs forum was a great idea but now I wonder if it would cause a big loss to After Hours. Where do we draw the line with what's current affairs and what isn't? At the minute almost every thread here could fall in to that category I think.

    My mind is- "let's look forward to what could be, not what was there in the past"

    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Let's be honest: After Hours is dead and it died / was killed some time ago now. A FB post I wrote in 2011 (where does time go):

    Make a new one? Who cares what AH was. The world has changed. People receive their news and their fun in so much different ways than 2011. My thoughts are, "let's see what AH could become, not what it was in the past".

    Just my thoughts. I respect you, as a long time poster here on boards.ie. I just think that because this whole "discussion forum" thing is so old technology, but at the same time, it still has an appeal, we need to think differently. that's all. :)


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    #2686
    Kuva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Kuva


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I just think that because this whole "discussion forum" thing is so old technology, but at the same time, it still has an appeal, we need to think differently. that's all. :)

    What is reddit?


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    #2687
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kuva wrote: »
    What is reddit?

    I was talking about boards.ie and its platform. Not reddit. What's your point Kuva? :)


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    #2688
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Wasn't that supposed to be the point and aim of the Politics Cafe?

    I'm not attempting to be smart or anything, but I just don't see the point of creating yet another forum which appears to me at least to be an exact duplicate of an already existing forum, one that now requires people to be pre-approved before they can post, due to the fact that in it's previous incarnation it became everything but the free and light hearted forum it was meant to be due to posters inability to take a relaxed approach to posters disagreeing with them and taking offence when challenged.

    Ultimately the content of any forum is driven by the Moderators of the forum who, when posts are reported, have the ability to use their judgement as to the direction they want the forum to take, and the ethos of the forum, and the atmosphere in the forum, and on that basis decide whether or not to take action against a users post.

    If the content of any forum were driven by it's users, the Feedback forum wouldn't be in the state it's in now where it's impossible to find anything with all the redirected threads to all the various other forums - Help Desk, DRP, geez whatever other sub-forums are in there that I can't even remember now. It just appears like some sort of a divide and misdirect strategy is in place to dilute down any feedback (why is this thread even in AH? Would it not be a better strategy to promote and make people aware of the Feedback forum?).

    Fixing the Search function would make more sense from my point of view than creating even more nested forums making the site slower and more frustrating to navigate. With 999 forums, it's difficult to argue that lack of content is the problem. It's simply that the content is just hard to get to.

    The majority hate politics or anything that involves the word. There are lots of threads which are about current events that have nothing to do with politics but involve more than just light hearted humour.

    Add in the prequalification to post & no one will post there.


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    #2689
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Discodog wrote: »
    The majority hate politics or anything that involves the word. There are lots of threads which are about current events that have nothing to do with politics but involve more than just light hearted humour.

    Add in the prequalification to post & no one will post there.

    I like your Current affairs idea but it doesn't seem to be getting much support.

    I have an idea. Tags for AH. Just 2 of them. Each thread will be tagged either "fun" or "serious"

    This will give people a heads up as to what type of thread they are entering.

    We mods could then alter the charter to add something like,

    "Fun threads are a free for all within site rules while serious threads will require a higher standard of posting."

    The carrot for us mods is we reserve the right to change the tag of a fun thread to serious and ban everyone:D


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    #2690
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Putinbot wrote: »
    I like your Current affairs idea but it doesn't seem to be getting much support.

    I have an idea. Tags for AH. Just 2 of them. Each thread will be tagged either "fun" or "serious"

    This will give people a heads up as to what type of thread they are entering.

    We mods could then alter the charter to add something like,

    "Fun threads are a free for all within site rules while serious threads will require a higher standard of posting."

    The carrot for us mods is we reserve the right to change the tag of a fun thread to serious and ban everyone:D

    Oh I wouldn't say that :)

    You just don't fancy modding it :pac:


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    #2691
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Discodog wrote: »
    The majority hate politics or anything that involves the word. There are lots of threads which are about current events that have nothing to do with politics but involve more than just light hearted humour.

    Add in the prequalification to post & no one will post there.


    So just rename the forum and remove the pre-qualification to post, jobs a good 'un, no?

    It would take the same format as many current affairs programmes on television that discuss among other things the topical events of the day, including but not limited to politics, Irish current affairs, and international current affairs.

    It's the idea of creating a new forum while trying to resuscitate an old one makes no sense if I'm being honest, just looks like making extra unnecessary work and making another forum that's likely to go the same way as the old one. There's likely to be a lot of cross over between the two so it would make sense to cut down on the number of forums and concentrate on content, both generating content and consuming content, rather than making it more of an effort than it's currently worth bothering with.


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    #2692
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Discodog wrote: »
    Oh I wouldn't say that :)

    You just don't fancy modding it :pac:

    I gave a +1 in your request thread.


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    #2693
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    ..... it's impossible to find anything with all the redirected threads to all the various other forums - Help Desk, DRP, geez whatever other sub-forums are in there that I can't even remember now. It just appears like some sort of a divide and misdirect strategy is in place to dilute down any feedback (why is this thread even in AH? Would it not be a better strategy to promote and make people aware of the Feedback forum?).

    Fixing the Search function would make more sense from my point of view than creating even more nested forums making the site slower and more frustrating to navigate. With 999 forums, it's difficult to argue that lack of content is the problem. It's simply that the content is just hard to get to.

    I never understood changed GUI and the navigation and the explosion of sub forums, many of which have almost no traffic. Now to get to the last comment in a thread (most commonly clicked element on boards you're assume) you click the smallest item on the entire screen.

    I noticed a lot of the sub forums withered and died after those changes. Traffic just vanished from them. Instead those long stupid threads where trolls derail the subject over and over again all end up on the recent thread page. Personally I dislike AH and stay out of it. But its on the recent threads a lot. Lot of bait titles in it. Sometimes you click into it by accident.

    None of this is new. Lots of people have complained out this stuff over and over. I see this thread as pointless aswell.


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    #2694
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    So just rename the forum and remove the pre-qualification to post, jobs a good 'un, no?

    It would take the same format as many current affairs programmes on television that discuss among other things the topical events of the day, including but not limited to politics, Irish current affairs, and international current affairs.

    It's the idea of creating a new forum while trying to resuscitate an old one makes no sense if I'm being honest, just looks like making extra unnecessary work and making another forum that's likely to go the same way as the old one. There's likely to be a lot of cross over between the two so it would make sense to cut down on the number of forums and concentrate on content, both generating content and consuming content, rather than making it more of an effort than it's currently worth bothering with.

    Maybe. That would be up to the PC crowd. It does have posters & they may like the existing format.


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    #2695
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Discodog wrote: »
    Maybe. That would be up to the PC crowd. It does have posters & they may like the existing format.

    a number of us don't tbh. traffic is very slow in it as well due to the access only policy.
    there was a feedback type thread there, business is slow in the politics cafe. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057829600

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #2696
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The fun / serious tag is a good suggestion. That works in Askreddit really well.


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    #2697
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's a lot of talk about the old days of After Hours and how much better it was. There's a thread running at the minute here about that very same thing. I'm only here since 2015 so can't comment on what it was like.
    Was it really better? What changed? Did society shift and so too did topics? Are the posters a completely different breed?


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    #2698
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,307 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's a lot of talk about the old days of After Hours and how much better it was. There's a thread running at the minute here about that very same thing. I'm only here since 2015 so can't comment on what it was like.
    Was it really better? What changed? Did society shift and so too did topics? Are the posters a completely different breed?
    A case of rose tinted glasses. Most people, in most places, reckon that what came before was always best. It's part of the human condition. It serves a purpose, as it allows people to vent their grievances (nothing wrong with that IMO). It really should not be taken too seriously though as the cycle always repeats itself. In 2028 AH threads will be calling this era now a "golden era" and that the present one is crap etc.


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    #2699
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The fun / serious tag is a good suggestion. That works in Askreddit really well.

    I like the idea but who decides the category - surely this needs to be the poster ? But then a poster is dictating how a forum should discuss his topic.

    Do we then say that there can't be a mix? Lots of serious threads benefit from an injection of appropriate humour & vice versa. It's not black & white.

    I can imagine the Mods copying Jimmy Carr's set where he tests jokes on an audience to find their level :)


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    #2700
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Putinbot wrote: »
    I like your Current affairs idea but it doesn't seem to be getting much support.

    I have an idea. Tags for AH. Just 2 of them. Each thread will be tagged either "fun" or "serious"

    This will give people a heads up as to what type of thread they are entering.

    We mods could then alter the charter to add something like,

    "Fun threads are a free for all within site rules while serious threads will require a higher standard of posting."

    The carrot for us mods is we reserve the right to change the tag of a fun thread to serious and ban everyone:D

    Maybe I am wrong but wasn't After Hours created specifically for fun threads? After Hours then became the biggest forum on boards (and in Ireland) because it was a laid back place to 'have the craic'.

    The place has changed a lot for the worse over the years (in my opinion). Look at the threads from around 2007-2011 there was just so much more fun and less bickering, also less people being so sensitive.

    Just to clarify I have been on boards since mid 00s, regretting closing my first account :(


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    #2701
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    mzungu wrote: »
    A case of rose tinted glasses. Most people, in most places, reckon that what came before was always best. It's part of the human condition. It serves a purpose, as it allows people to vent their grievances (nothing wrong with that IMO). It really should not be taken too seriously though as the cycle always repeats itself. In 2028 AH threads will be calling this era now a "golden era" and that the present one is crap etc.

    But the numbers are bound to decline. There wasn't the competition in the good old days that there is now


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