Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

molloyjh · 03-05-2018 01:27PM

awec wrote: »

Excellent, so with this lack of powers available to Schmidt he can do absolutely nothing about Ulster using Carbery as little as possible. On the bench, playing the insignificant games when McPhillips needs rested, right?

I'm sure that was a lovely tale they told Carbery, a player openly vocal about not wanting to leave.

Delusion.

awec wrote: »

Who honestly believes this?

This is utterly hilarious. The evidence is there for all to see, and has been for the last 12 months. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't make it untrue. The people who believe it are the people with their eyes open and paying attention to the real world.

Can you explain why Joe has to power the make those selection calls, and yet didn't use those powers over the last 12 months at all?

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 01:27PM

awec wrote: »

Because Leinster have Sexton and Byrne.

I don't think anyone really believes that Leo Cullen or Stuart Lancaster's boss has no authority to tell them what to do.

There is certainly no blanket ban on the IRFU instructing provinces on players. It is certainly not that simple.

This is becoming the rugby equivalent of flat earthism

molloyjh · 03-05-2018 01:29PM

awec wrote: »

Because Leinster have Sexton and Byrne.

Byrne has been involved in Ireland camp every bit as much as McPhillips has. He's as important to Joes plans as McPhillips is. Honestly, this is laughable. Critical thought be damned, there's moaning and finger pointing to be done. :rolleyes:

awec · 03-05-2018 01:30PM

molloyjh wrote: »

This is utterly hilarious. The evidence is there for all to see, and has been for the last 12 months. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't make it untrue. The people who believe it are the people with their eyes open and paying attention to the real world.

Can you explain why Joe has to power the make those selection calls, and yet didn't use those powers over the last 12 months at all?

The people who believe it are the people who'd believe grass was purple if the IRFU made a statement about it.

Schmidt and Nucifora are Cullen's boss. People honestly think they cannot tell their subordinate what to do. And I am supposedly the laughable one?

awec · 03-05-2018 01:32PM

Perhaps the "he's not joining for the promise of game time at 10" brigade can tell us all why he is joining?

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 01:32PM

awec wrote: »

The people who believe it are the people who'd believe grass was purple if the IRFU made a statement about it.

:pac:

No, Awec. I am the doubter. An IRFU lover opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No.

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 01:34PM

awec wrote: »

Perhaps the "he's not joining for the promise of game time at 10" brigade can tell us all why he is joining?

Starting rugby for a team in the Champions Cup

awec · 03-05-2018 01:34PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Starting rugby for a team in the Champions Cup

Starting rugby? You mean in any position?

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 01:35PM

awec wrote: »

Starting rugby? You mean in any position?

Definitely at 10

thomond2006 · 03-05-2018 01:35PM

awec wrote: »

This doesn't even begin to make sense.

Leinster have Johnny Sexton and Ross Byrne.

What is astounding here is your lack of outrage about Ulster signing another short term stop gap, after all the complaining you did about them playing Lealiifaano instead of their own academy players.

molloyjh wrote: »

How many 50/50 calls are there going to be?????? This seems like a really made up scenario tbh.

I'm sure Joey is going up thinking he stands a far better chance of getting game time there than here at Leinster. Joe can't guarantee him first choice though. That's not within his powers to do. If it was then Joey wouldn't be in this position in the first place. He'd have been getting the game time at 10 in Leinster.

molloyjh wrote: »

Missed this when I was replying to the earlier post. Stephen is 100% right. If Joe could force a provinces hand he'd have done so with Leinster. He didn't, which is evidence that he can't. It makes nothing but sense.

I'm not convinced it's a good decision for Ulster or Leinster at all. But from an Ireland perspective I get it and from the players perspective I get it. If Ulster don't have a head coach, and won't until the middle of next season, then this is far from the biggest issue Ulster will have. And in some ways it might be better to sign a guy on a 1 year deal and let McFarland get stuck into proper recruitment once he arrives properly.

awec wrote: »

Excellent, so with this lack of powers available to Schmidt he can do absolutely nothing about Ulster using Carbery as little as possible. On the bench, playing the insignificant games when McPhillips needs rested, right?

I'm sure that was a lovely tale they told Carbery, a player openly vocal about not wanting to leave.

Delusion.

molloyjh wrote: »

This is utterly hilarious. The evidence is there for all to see, and has been for the last 12 months. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't make it untrue. The people who believe it are the people with their eyes open and paying attention to the real world.

Can you explain why Joe has to power the make those selection calls, and yet didn't use those powers over the last 12 months at all?

molloyjh wrote: »

Byrne has been involved in Ireland camp every bit as much as McPhillips has. He's as important to Joes plans as McPhillips is. Honestly, this is laughable. Critical thought be damned, there's moaning and finger pointing to be done. :rolleyes:

awec wrote: »

The people who believe it are the people who'd believe grass was purple if the IRFU made a statement about it.

Schmidt and Nucifora are Cullen's boss. People honestly think they cannot tell their subordinate what to do. And I am supposedly the laughable one?

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Former Former · 03-05-2018 01:35PM

awec wrote: »

Perhaps the "he's not joining for the promise of game time at 10" brigade can tell us all why he is joining?

I guess he's going from competing with Johnny Sexton and Ross Byrne to a province where he should be the undisputed #1. I don't think he needs to be promised anything.

On the other hand, if six months from now, Dan McFarland is ringing Joe Schmidt up and saying, "Joe, McPhillips is the better player, I'm going to pick him", then that should tell Schmidt all he needs to know too.

Buer · 03-05-2018 01:37PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is becoming the rugby equivalent of flat earthism

I'm confident he'll come around.

prawnsambo · 03-05-2018 01:38PM

molloyjh wrote: »

This is utterly hilarious. The evidence is there for all to see, and has been for the last 12 months. Just because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't make it untrue. The people who believe it are the people with their eyes open and paying attention to the real world.

Can you explain why Joe has to power the make those selection calls, and yet didn't use those powers over the last 12 months at all?

Ummm... I'm not completely disagreeing with you here, but I recall a lot of discussion at the beginning of the season when Carbery was being selected at full back for six matches in a row. Joe Schmidt and Leo Cullen both commented at length on the situation and Joe was quoted as saying 'he understood' the issues that Cullen was trying to fix. And Leo was saying similar things about what would be the ideal situation except for the injury to Kearney. So Joey was getting started at 15 because he needed some sort of game time and Ross Byrne was ten because he could play nowhere else.

Now aside from what the reasons were, it was obvious that there was discussion between Joe and Leo on the subject. Maybe Joe wasn't telling Leo who to pick, but he was clearly asking him why he wsn't picking Joey at ten. And then Joey got injured and the can went off down the road until after the 6N when lo and behold, Joey gets started at ten and benches behind Sexton. Ross Byrne becomes waterboy.

molloyjh · 03-05-2018 02:02PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Ummm... I'm not completely disagreeing with you here, but I recall a lot of discussion at the beginning of the season when Carbery was being selected at full back for six matches in a row. Joe Schmidt and Leo Cullen both commented at length on the situation and Joe was quoted as saying 'he understood' the issues that Cullen was trying to fix. And Leo was saying similar things about what would be the ideal situation except for the injury to Kearney. So Joey was getting started at 15 because he needed some sort of game time and Ross Byrne was ten because he could play nowhere else.

Now aside from what the reasons were, it was obvious that there was discussion between Joe and Leo on the subject. Maybe Joe wasn't telling Leo who to pick, but he was clearly asking him why he wsn't picking Joey at ten. And then Joey got injured and the can went off down the road until after the 6N when lo and behold, Joey gets started at ten and benches behind Sexton. Ross Byrne becomes waterboy.

I can't imagine there is anyone here who doesn't think those conversations happen. The point is that if Joe really does have the power to force provincial hands selection wise we'd probably have seen some evidence of it by now. Instead Carbery has started just 1 game at 10 all season.

molloyjh · 03-05-2018 02:03PM

awec wrote: »

The people who believe it are the people who'd believe grass was purple if the IRFU made a statement about it.

Schmidt and Nucifora are Cullen's boss. People honestly think they cannot tell their subordinate what to do. And I am supposedly the laughable one?

Then why haven't they?

EDIT: And don't say Ross Byrne. He's irrelevant in the context of Team Ireland. Why would Joe care that a guy he doesn't use is getting game time? Especially if that game time comes at the expense of a guy he does use.

launish116 · 03-05-2018 02:09PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't imagine there is anyone here who doesn't think those conversations happen. The point is that if Joe really does have the power to force provincial hands selection wise we'd probably have seen some evidence of it by now. Instead Carbery has started just 1 game at 10 all season.

Power to force and a coach with a back bone willing to refuse could be the difference? injury has also lead to Carbery playing 15.

03-05-2018 02:15PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

irishbucsfan · 03-05-2018 02:18PM

STOP

https://twitter.com/andrew_trimble/status/992045211579756546

prawnsambo · 03-05-2018 02:20PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't imagine there is anyone here who doesn't think those conversations happen. The point is that if Joe really does have the power to force provincial hands selection wise we'd probably have seen some evidence of it by now. Instead Carbery has started just 1 game at 10 all season.

At the pointy end of the season, Sexton is going to start every game he's fit for. That's just the reality and Joe wouldn't have a problem with that. Would you bet on Ross Byrne appearing in the next few matches, injury aside?

Burkie1203 · 03-05-2018 02:25PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

STOP

https://twitter.com/andrew_trimble/status/992045211579756546

Does this mean Joe is going to invite Jordan Larmour and Adam Byrne for a coffee:(

prawnsambo · 03-05-2018 02:27PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

STOP

https://twitter.com/andrew_trimble/status/992045211579756546

One of the nicest retirement announcements I've ever read. From one of the nicest guys in Irish rugby. Felt it was coming, but I love the self-deprecating way he's admitted to age catching up.

launish116 · 03-05-2018 02:28PM

Got to wish Trimble all the best, if only he could pass his hardness and crunching tackles to our forwards before leaving.

Some cash gonna be available for new contracts next season. Shame theres no players available.

Dubinusa · 03-05-2018 02:35PM

He is retiring at the right time. Just lost a step or 2. Really fine player and always showed up.
Ulster are losing so much now. SO,PJ, Bowe and Trimble. Henry will be retiring fairly soon also.
The academy needs to produce now. Depth is going to be an issue.

Clegg · 03-05-2018 02:36PM

For whatever reason I thought he'd stay one more season. Maybe it's because Bowe is packing it in as well I though Trimble would go one more year. That's two of Ulster's greatest ever players retiring at the same time and there's the chance Payne will be going with them. Chuck in Piutau as well and Ulster have very few senior outside backs in the side.

prawnsambo · 03-05-2018 02:40PM

Need to sign up those kids of his who are close to beating him over 5m.

Buer · 03-05-2018 02:40PM

Goodnight, sweet prince.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8qbtSnPUyg

jacothelad · 03-05-2018 02:41PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't imagine there is anyone here who doesn't think those conversations happen. The point is that if Joe really does have the power to force provincial hands selection wise we'd probably have seen some evidence of it by now. Instead Carbery has started just 1 game at 10 all season.

molloyjh wrote: »

Then why haven't they?

EDIT: And don't say Ross Byrne. He's irrelevant in the context of Team Ireland. Why would Joe care that a guy he doesn't use is getting game time? Especially if that game time comes at the expense of a guy he does use.

I'm certain that Schmidt has said that he doesn't 'order' coaches where and how they use players and I think Kiss confirmed this for example in the case of Henderson. I am also certain that Deccie did, by using Paddy Wallace at 10.

If Joe really has such faith in Carbery, logic would dictate that if Byrne is outside of Ireland's plans then he should be the one encouraged to move to Ulster. This would leave Joey playing alongside McGrath and partnering Henshaw and Ringrose, also utilising the experience of Sexton. That would accelerate his development much faster than playing with the likes of Cooney who is good, Shanahan who isn't and with non-international backline players outside, If Carbery does move and he is not cutting it I hope that he isn't simply selected because of the situation. Nor do I think that Ulster should accept him on a one year deal. It does Ulster and it's players a disservice. Byrne for 2 years while Joey makes or breaks it at Leinster.

thomond2006 · 03-05-2018 02:43PM

I was right above the action when Trimble emptied Liam Squire in Chicago. He won Ireland a crucial scrum and the rest is history.

irishfan9 · 03-05-2018 02:43PM

jacothelad wrote: »

Byrne for 2 years while Joey makes or breaks it at Leinster.

then leinster has no experienced outhalf during 6 nations or november.. which is unacceptable.. leinster is the province producing the players and should not be punished for it.

launish116 · 03-05-2018 02:44PM

Clegg wrote: »

For whatever reason I thought he'd stay one more season. Maybe it's because Bowe is packing it in as well I though Trimble would go one more year. That's two of Ulster's greatest ever players retiring at the same time and there's the chance Payne will be going with them. Chuck in Piutau as well and Ulster have very few senior outside backs in the side.

Scary to think we've lost an all international backline in Piernarr, Jackson, Olding, Payne, Bowe,Trimble, Piutau. That experience is priceless. All there contract cash needs invested very wisely now.
Ulster really are falling into a rebuilding phase.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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