8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

BarleySweets · 02-05-2018 12:21AM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

There's only one poster pontificating here..that's you answering my OP to a different poster.

Sticking your beak into an amicable conversation i was having with another poster.

Stop poking around looking for conflict.

I've had an account since 2012. I deleted it last year and reopened in February for sports threads.

You obviously signed up for one forum. We'll all be busy enough with other interests now and after 26th May.

Get a life and stop chasing around a pro life poster to post your hackneyed rubbish. Have a bit of dignity like Hannibal, Robert, WrongWay and the many non insulting Yes voters.

So respectful! This is a discussion forum, do I need your permission to join the discussion?

You’ve replied to me twice now and not answered any of the questions I asked. But you have mustered the wherewithal to abuse me, so I hope that made you feel better. I notice from your replies to others that you seem to love doing that.

NAGDEFI · 02-05-2018 12:21AM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

For whom would you feel more compassion - a female relative or the <12-week-old foetus growing inside her? If someone you love sought your help with procuring an abortion, would you reluctantly help her or refuse because you love the foetus equally?

See, I struggle with abortion on a moral level (and I used to be opposed to repealing the 8th), but if a close female relative told me that she wanted an abortion, but required financial help with the trip to England, my personal morals would go out the window and I'd give her whatever help and support she needed. Taking that into account, I would be a hypocrite to vote against repeal.

No disrespect Hapax but i've gone through it a lot this evening.

In brief i'd try to convince them to have the child, that's what i believe in. If they wanted an abortion and my talking was having an adverse effect on the relative i'd support them 100%

See you on the LLS thread and others. I know we're on different ends here but i respect you as a poster.

BarleySweets · 02-05-2018 12:25AM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

No disrespect Hapax but i've gone through it a lot this evening.

In brief i'd try to convince them to have the child, that's what i believe in. If they wanted an abortion and my talking was having an adverse effect on the relative i'd support them 100%

See you on the LLS thread and others. I know we're on different ends here but i respect you as a poster.

If you meant that then you’d vote to offer them the opportunity to have their abortion in Ireland. Unless you’re saying that you’re happy to ship an already traumatized relative off to England to deal with strange doctors in a foreign land with no hope for follow-on care?

NAGDEFI · 02-05-2018 12:25AM

BarleySweets wrote: »

So respectful! This is a discussion forum, do I need your permission to join the discussion?

You’ve replied to me twice now and not answered any of the questions I asked. But you have mustered the wherewithal to abuse me, so I hope that made you feel better. I notice from your replies to others that you seem to love doing that.

Maybe if you stopped misquoting and answering for other posters you'd get respect eh? No you don't know how to join a debate with manners.

I'll hold my own here and give respect to those who earn it with their initial post. You're just rude in the way you post. Keep trying.

'Mustered the wherewithal'? It doesn't take much 'mustering' to reply to you.

NAGDEFI · 02-05-2018 12:26AM

BarleySweets wrote: »

If you meant that then you’d vote to offer them the opportunity to have their abortion in Ireland. Unless you’re saying that you’re happy to ship an already traumatized relative off to England to deal with strange doctors in a foreign land with no hope for follow-on care?

I've gone through it all before on here.

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 12:33AM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

A few words suffice for you. You have no class. You think your intellect is the 8th Wonder.

You're just a small fish trying to be a flat track bully when he has 30 to 1 behind him on a forum.

It says a lot about you that you try to get your little one liners in against opponents. You probably care little for anyone effected by the issues.

Just trying to be a smart ass. You're nothing and as a human being i wouldn't say you're a whole lot either.

The dramatics!

Oh and my loved ones seem to like me and that’s all that matters in the end, isn’t it?

Assetbacked · 02-05-2018 12:47AM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

A few words suffice for you. You have no class. You think your intellect is the 8th Wonder.

You're just a small fish trying to be a flat track bully when he has 30 to 1 behind him on a forum.

It says a lot about you that you try to get your little one liners in against opponents. You probably care little for anyone effected by the issues.

Just trying to be a smart ass. You're nothing and as a human being i wouldn't say you're a whole lot either.

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 12:52AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As a lesbian I'm glad that people didn't take that attitude when it came to the Mar Ref.

As a gay I would have thought you would appreciate that a person should have the right to do as they wish with their own body.

I think the "I've a right to do what I want with my own body" is the absolute worst argument I've heard for abortion. In fact it's the reason I might vote against it, but I prolly wont, just abstain. What a shocking terrible argument for abortion.

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 12:58AM

kenmc wrote: »

Not voting means you're happy to leave things as they are.

It doesn't mean any such thing. Maybe it means I think we should think about it more and come up with better solutions to tackle this problem. In no way do I think that the status quo is right and my non vote can not be inferred to mean I wish to keep the situation as it is.

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 01:01AM

AllForIt wrote: »

I think the "I've a right to do what I want with my own body" is the absolute worst argument I've heard for abortion. In fact it's the reason I might vote against it, but I prolly wont, just abstain. What a shocking terrible argument for abortion.

I just don’t get all these posts where people almost seem to regard their vote as a weapon. I’ve worked out my feelings on the topic and stuck with that and I’ll vote accordingly. Why are so many people apparently so willing to use, indeed waste, their vote spiting others? It’s so bizarre.

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 01:05AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

I'm a gay man too, and I'm voting Yes. Because we know what it's like to have the State interfere in our fundamental rights. We know what it's like to be regarded as criminals even if we'll never actually go to jail. The 8th is a relic of that kind of Ireland; in the same year the 8th was passed, David Norris lost his Supreme Court challenge and the killers of Declan Flynn walked free. That's the kind of Ireland that needs to be left in the past.

And like I said to straight people during the marriage equality referendum, it may not affect you directly, but it does affect someone you know. A sister, a niece, an aunt, friend, co-worker; someone you know will need an abortion and the decision you make will determine the kind of care and treatment they receive when they make that decision.

The women of Ireland supported us three years when we needed them, now it's our turn and I'm not going to let them down.

This is not an argument for abortion though is it? I said I was abstaining and your point is making me feel more inclined to abstain than actually vote.

I am looking for solid arguments as to why abortion in itself is right. The rightness or wrongness of abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with the SSM Ref.

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 01:08AM

AllForIt wrote: »

This is not an argument for abortion though is it? I said I was abstaining and your point is making me feel more inclined to abstain than actually vote.

I am looking for solid arguments as to why abortion in itself is right. The rightness or wrongness of abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with the SSM Ref.

This and the threads that preceded it are stuffed full of solid arguments. Read back over them.

Yellow pack crisps · 02-05-2018 01:09AM

AllForIt wrote: »

This is not an argument for abortion though is it? I said I was abstaining and your point is making me feel more inclined to abstain than actually vote.

I am looking for solid arguments as to why abortion in itself is right. The rightness or wrongness of abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with the SSM Ref.

Just abstain. Or do you need someone to tell you what to do?

SusieBlue · 02-05-2018 01:13AM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

A few words suffice for you. You have no class. You think your intellect is the 8th Wonder.

You're just a small fish trying to be a flat track bully when he has 30 to 1 behind him on a forum.

It says a lot about you that you try to get your little one liners in against opponents. You probably care little for anyone effected by the issues.

Just trying to be a smart ass. You're nothing and as a human being i wouldn't say you're a whole lot either.

You actually sound triggered.

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 01:14AM

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

Just abstain. Or do you need someone to tell you what to do?

I know, what’s with these hand-wringing posts?

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 01:16AM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

An abstain from this vote unfortunately will likely mean a win for the No side, as you are essentially saying you want nothing to change. I know this may not be your intention.

Again, you are fully entitled to abstain. That is your right, but I would ask you to reconsider if you are any way Yes inclined.

I am not essentially saying I want nothing to change. For all you know I'd want to outlaw ppl going abroad to have abortions.

I can't see how if I abstain it guarantees a result one way or the other. Golly, I didn't' realise I has such power.

What I am saying is that from what I have read on this thread and in the media, the arguments for abortion have been abysmal. And the opposing arguments too. Maybe I missed the good one's but that's what I gather so far.

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 01:23AM

_Dara_ wrote: »

This and the threads that preceded it are stuffed full of solid arguments. Read back over them.

This thread is stuffed full of abysmal arguments as I interpret them. And to be fair I'm talking about both sides of the argument.

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 01:24AM

AllForIt wrote: »

I am not essentially saying I want nothing to change. For all you know I'd want to outlaw ppl going abroad to have abortions.

I can't see how if I abstain it guarantees a result one way or the other. Golly, I didn't' realise I has such power.

What I am saying is that from what I have read on this thread and in the media, the arguments for abortion have been abysmal. And the opposing arguments too. Maybe I missed the good one's but that's what I gather so far.

AllForIt wrote: »

This thread is stuffed full of abysmal arguments as I interpret them. And to be fair I'm talking about both sides arguments.

Apparent on-the-fencers always seem to come down harder on the Yes campaign. The No campaign will just gets a cursory mention, as above. Curiouser and curiouser.

There are solid arguments. If you see them as “abysmal”, there’s not much I or anyone else can say to you. They are what they are.

gctest50 · 02-05-2018 01:30AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

You actually sound triggered.

right up into the red and possibly blown a gasket at this stage :

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Your a non entity of a troll. Some great posters on here on both sides but you really let the Yes side down. When somebody repeats a point a bout posts 3 times i think it's good manners to inform them. You didn't quote the start of the post did you?

When ignoramus like you get out debated or can't keep up they resort to slurs like calling posters abusers.

Again you're a non entity of a troll. I reported you earlier for suggesting i abused women.

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 01:34AM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Apparent on-the-fencers always seem to come down harder on the Yes campaign. The No campaign will just gets a cursory mention, as above. Curiouser and curiouser.

There are solid arguments. If you see them as “abysmal”, there’s not much I or anyone else can say to you. They are what they are.

Look, I think you picked up wrongly on my post. I worded it that way because the ref is about changing the law.

I would argue that if a change in the law is required then the one's who are set in changing the law should necessarily come under greater scrutiny. Wouldn't you agree?

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 01:43AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Look, I think you picked up wrongly on my post. I worded it that way because the ref is about changing the law.

I would argue that if a change in the law is required then the one's who are set in changing the law should necessarily come under greater scrutiny. Wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn’t actually. Why such a damaging amendment ever made its way into the constitution is just as deserving of scrutiny. The status quo should always be questioned, continually. That’s goes for anything, not just this issue.

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 01:49AM

_Dara_ wrote: »

No, I wouldn’t actually. Why such a damaging amendment ever made its way into the constitution is just as deserving of scrutiny. The status quo should always be questioned, continually. That’s goes for anything, not just this issue.

Okay Dara, powerful arguments from you. It's getting a bit late but tomorrow I'm going to ask one question that I hope from the replies I receive will swing it for me. It won't be an easy one.

Zubeneschamali · 02-05-2018 05:51AM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

You lack a real human empathy don't you?

Both of us have empathy for the rape victim and want to help, but I want to help all women in crisis pregnancies not just ones I know personally; and I think we can do better than a trip to an English clinic.

NuMarvel · 02-05-2018 06:33AM

AllForIt wrote: »

This is not an argument for abortion though is it? I said I was abstaining and your point is making me feel more inclined to abstain than actually vote.

I am looking for solid arguments as to why abortion in itself is right. The rightness or wrongness of abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with the SSM Ref.

It wasn't meant as an argument for abortion. It was an argument to vote, especially in response to the "doesn't affect me" comment. If straight people thought that, then the SSM referendum would have been lost, because you can be sure that most if not all of the 38% who voted No would have turned up on the day anyway.

As for arguments, there have been plenty presented over the last few threads. We can't respond any further without knowing why you don't find them convincing. Why not pick some and tell us what you think the problems with them are?

erica74 · 02-05-2018 07:02AM

bfa1509 wrote: »

I think you are letting down your fellow pro-choicers with this post.

I think you are letting down humanity by being such a selfish person.

BarleySweets · 02-05-2018 07:35AM

AllForIt wrote: »

I think the "I've a right to do what I want with my own body" is the absolute worst argument I've heard for abortion. In fact it's the reason I might vote against it, but I prolly wont, just abstain. What a shocking terrible argument for abortion.

Why?

Why is that such a terrible argument?

And further, where do my rights end? What do you think I should not have the right to do to my own body?

Do you think women who have been diagnosed as 100% certain to miscarry within the next 10 weeks should have the right to make the choice between aborting on their terms or do you think they should have to be forced to carry the pregnancy until miscarriage, with all that that entails?

Ave Sodalis · 02-05-2018 07:35AM

AllForIt wrote:

I can't see how if I abstain it guarantees a result one way or the other. Golly, I didn't' realise I has such power.

Everyone has power in a referendum. No single vote guarantees a result, but collectively they do which is why there are canvassers.

Well look at it this way. If in a election, everyone votes for one candidate, they would win. If everyone votes for another candidate, they would win. If absolutely everyone abstains from voting, the result would be nobody is elected.

However, in a referendum such as this, if everyone votes Yes, the Yes side will win. If everyone votes No, the No side will win. If absolutely everyone abstains from voting, it would be the No side who win.

Dressing gown · 02-05-2018 07:55AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Okay Dara, powerful arguments from you. It's getting a bit late but tomorrow I'm going to ask one question that I hope from the replies I receive will swing it for me. It won't be an easy one.

Hi All for it
I’ve had a miscarriage I was told would happen. I waited for it (waking in tears every morning) and then it happened. But it wasn’t complete so I had to go for a D&C then anyway. I cried as they put me to sleep. I cried when I woke up. I bled for four more weeks and every time I went to the loo in that time I broke down again. Losing a baby is a horrendous loss. Miscarriage after finding out you are pregnant is as common as 1 in 6 pregnancies. So mine is not a rare case. It is an experience I would not wish on anyone. It affected my mental state. It damaged my marriage. It affected me badly through my subsequent pregnancies. It is no way for someone to be treated when it can be avoided. Repealing the eighth will not stop miscarriages but by dealing with the situation those families in those torturous days and weeks or months between finding out the baby will not live and when the law currently dictates things can end everyone’s pain and suffering will be lessened. We are talking about alleviating anguish and mental suffering on this one. The yes vote can achieve that.

erica74 · 02-05-2018 07:56AM

I just heard on the radio that those disgusting creatures are going to erect those disgusting posters outside our maternity hospitals again today, "just showing the reality". It makes my blood boil.

Ave Sodalis · 02-05-2018 07:58AM

erica74 wrote:

I just heard on the radio that those disgusting creatures are going to erect those disgusting posters outside our maternity hospitals again today, "just showing the reality". It makes my blood boil.

If I lived closer, I'd nearly draw on some bedsheets with things like "good luck with your appointment today" and "have a nice day" and stand in front of them.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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