8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Billy86

Killester1 wrote: »

But I haven't seen anywhere that the GP's have agreed to go along with administering the abortion pill. Have you? I don't think the GP's in general are going along with it, as it went against their Hippocratic Oath. Does anyone know for definite?

The auld lad is a semi retired GO but has said he will. I hope no other GPs give them out though, then I can finally get to work on mooching for that solid gold rocket car.

In other words yes, many will. They support giving avenues to abortion for those choosing to do so, and the pills are typically the least traumatic method of doing so, so they will be providing them. At the end of the day while some will probably try to staunchly refuse to do so they will just lose clientele as I imagine doctors refusing to give out prescriptions for condoms in the 1980s would have, in favour of those that would. Anyone of those on the fence will sooner rather than later be swayed by the financial side of things.

Killester1

Killester1 wrote: »

No....I just don't trust the Government on this issue.

Ah one of the classic line that appears from all pro life & on the fence posters on here.

Killester1

DubInMeath wrote: »

Been a while but reports of 75% of doctors polled support the proposals

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/75-of-doctors-support-12-week-access-to-abortion-466855.html

Big difference between analysis and reporting of smear test results and carrying out a medical procedure or prescribing pills and providing after care, but good attempt.

Well if you think that was a classy one liner.......have a look at your irishexaminer post that you sent me........the article asks for you to read the Dr Maire Neasta Nic Gearailt article.......well what do you know.........interesting reading.....which adds to my lack of trust of the Government. They can't be honest before referendum, so what will they be like after!

What was your classy saying.......good attempt.......Grow up!

Bannasidhe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Irish doctors don't swear the hippocratic oath.

Linky supporting that
https://www.imt.ie/opinion/guest-posts/what-does-the-hippocratic-oath-mean-24-04-2009/

Killester1

DubInMeath wrote: »

Been a while but reports of 75% of doctors polled support the proposals

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/75-of-doctors-support-12-week-access-to-abortion-466855.html

Big difference between analysis and reporting of smear test results and carrying out a medical procedure or prescribing pills and providing after care, but good attempt.

'The Government says it is committed to the welfare of women but it has proposed a law that is simply unworkable to doctor and patient alike'......(Irish examiner)

This IMT poll has been challenged.......(Irish examiner )

How can we possibly trust the Government on this complex issue of abortion and to take care of women.

amcalester

Killester1 wrote: »

Well if you think that was a classy one liner.......have a look at your irishexaminer post that you sent me........the article asks for you to read the Dr Maire Neasta Nic Gearailt article.......well what do you know.........interesting reading.....which adds to my lack of trust of the Government. They can't be honest before referendum, so what will they be like after!

What was your classy saying.......good attempt.......Grow up!

She’s hardly objective though is she?

She was nominated by Save the 8th to write that article/letter.

So on side you have a survey of 400 doctors saying they will administer the pills, and on the other you have a rebuttal by 1 doctor with links to Save the 8th.

I know which I will put more faith in.

amcalester

Killester1 wrote: »

How can we possibly trust the Government on this complex issue of abortion and to take care of women.

As if you actually care about women.

gctest50

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Linky supporting that
https://www.imt.ie/opinion/guest-posts/what-does-the-hippocratic-oath-mean-24-04-2009/

( very ! ) vaguely related from the fountain of knowledge that is wikipedia


look at this superstar :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/749863439

because it needs to be there

NuMarvel

Killester1 wrote: »

How can we possibly trust the Government on this complex issue of abortion and to take care of women.

We've trusted the British government to take care of Irish women for decades, and we don't even elect them!

Killester1

Killester1 wrote: »

'The Government says it is committed to the welfare of women but it has proposed a law that is simply unworkable to doctor and patient alike'......(Irish examiner)

This IMT poll has been challenged.......(Irish examiner )

How can we possibly trust the Government on this complex issue of abortion and to take care of women.

Well one thing is for certain, once the 8th is repealed any government and medical profession will be in a position to care for women better than they currently are.

Also your original post is just a poor attempt at drawing a comparison that doesn't exist, between a body (HSE) handling of botched test, which are examined and reported on by a lab and an actual medical doctor be they a GP, hospital based or FP based carrying out a medical proceedure in this case an abortion, or prescribing pills to do so and then provide any required after care as an argument against repealing the 8th. So yes again good attempt.

Billy86

Killester1 wrote: »

'The Government says it is committed to the welfare of women but it has proposed a law that is simply unworkable to doctor and patient alike'......(Irish examiner)

Once again, that's untrue. Source: I have family members in that profession who after decades of having to tell people there's nothing to be done, are actually looking forward to being able to offer avenues for abortion such as the pills should the referendum pass.

Other source: most of the rest of the developed world. You'll note the abortions are not "unworkable" for them, which should strike you as strange given that their doctors are also doctors just as our doctors are doctors too.

BabysCoffee

Killester1 wrote: »

Does anyone know if all the Irish GP's have agreed to administer the abortion pill if the 8th is repealed, cause if they haven't and if they won't ....what happens then? Does the government have a plan B set up ..... Marie Stokes clinics in various locations? They've made a mess of the cervicalsmear testing for women, I really wouldn't trust them on organising anything properly if its repealed........

When the 8th is repealed, what system for administering the abortion pill would you like to see?

The Legend Of Kira

Cabaal wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Post about the heartbeat bill was to highlight one example of how rape exceptions work,, I wasn,t aware that Poland had a rape exception in their laws, thanks Zubeneschamali for highlighting it.

It's incompatible with the pro life view though.

So a fetus is equal to a born baby except in cases of rape?

That doesn't make much sense,

Their exception is just to make it more difficult for women to get abortions, this exception would later be closed by them. You can guarantee it

One might say that they are different positions different people hold within the life movement for example some will say that there shouldn,t be any exceptions whatsoever no matter what, & some others will say exceptions for certain cases such as rape- I can point to Trump since elected he has done certain things in office that the life movement agree with but he,s also on the record saying that he supports exceptions in cases of rape.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/trump-i-am-exceptions-abortion-rape-incest-life-mother

I can also point to that some within the life movement are opposed to the morning after pill while some don,t agree with that position, there was one life campaigner on the local radio this week he was asked by the interviewer if he was opposed to the morning after pill , he said he was opposed, some people I know who will be voting no in the referendum completely disagreed with such a position as in being opposed to the morning after pill- as do I disagree with the viewpoint expressed by the  life campaigner on the local radio.

Zubeneschamali

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

I can also point to that some within the life movement are opposed to the morning after pill

Some are opposed to contraception, sex education and even sex itself.

They are called the bishops, but they are rather quiet so far, just as they were in the SSM debate.

It was only after they lost that one that the Vatican came out and officially called it "a defeat for humanity". I am sure that will be their method this time, too - stay behind the scenes, work through proxy "lay" organizations like Iona, and then only release their real statement after they lose (or win, St Jude between us and all harm).

erica74

The proposed new Article 40.3.3

"Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy"

Repeal the 8th

RobertKK

Man in this video says he is being paid to take down No posters.

https://twitter.com/mickeyvaugn/status/991800373588447232?s=21

seamus

RobertKK wrote: »

Man in this video says he is being paid to take down No posters.

What's the logo on his gear?

If I had to guess I'd say he's employed by the local council to take down illegally placed posters.

Funny that in the modern age where every phone is a HD camera, the video looks like it comes from 2005 and the guy behind the camera didn't think to ask simple questions like, "Who is paying you?"

Triceratops Ballet

RobertKK wrote: »

Man in this video says he is being paid to take down No posters.

https://twitter.com/mickeyvaugn/status/991800373588447232?s=21

people say all sorts of sh1t, doesn't mean it's true!

Mr. CooL ICE

That's Woodies by the N4, Dublin. There is a long-time voluntary ban on posters in the area around Lucan village. I don't know the exact area this ban contains, but this could be within it.

seamus

Twitter comments suggest that the logo on his gear is for a company who have the roads maintenance contract with TII.

We know posters are illegal on motorways, but there may also be provisions which make them illegal on major roads (i.e. those under TII's remit).

It's also not permitted to put posters at junctions, so there's that too.

So overall seems plenty of avenues on which this is perfectly legit and this is just more faux oppression from the usual suspects.

.......

This post has been deleted.

seamus

Just updated my avatar with the image from here: https://repeal.ml/

.......

This post has been deleted.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

Man in this video says he is being paid to take down No posters.

https://twitter.com/mickeyvaugn/status/991800373588447232?s=21

Yeah he's getting paid to do it because they're illegally placed.

Funny how Yes posters were taken down at Castleknock train station last week but the No ones were left in place... hmmm...

nozzferrahhtoo

AllForIt wrote: »

I'm going to ask one question that I hope from the replies I receive will swing it for me. It won't be an easy one.

Is there a delay on this or has it been cancelled?

Zubeneschamali

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Is there a delay on this or has it been cancelled?

I would be interested to hear a hard question from a fence-sitter which could decide matters for them.

But I don't expect to get one.

seamus

In the interests of discussion, I'll throw in one novel question for the thread that I saw asked on Facebook;

"Why isn't the proposed replacement an article enshrining the right to a termination of a pregnancy? Why are we being asked to allow a situation where a future government may criminalise abortion?"

It made me smile because it's someone who is vehemently pro-choice, but wondering if there are reasons why they should push back and ask for more. Which differs from the usual questions of fence-sitters searching for reasons to push back and ask for less.

Killester1

amcalester wrote: »

As if you actually care about women.

No .... I care about both women and babies ..... I don’t trust the Government handling this issue if it is removed from the Constituon.

If the YES crowd are going to bash me now for saying ‘babies’ ..... please change the argument ..... we’ve heard it over and over again.

Timberrrrrrrr

Killester1 wrote: »

No .... I care about both women and babies ..... I don’t trust the Government handling this issue if it is removed from the Constituon.

If the YES crowd are going to bash me now for saying ‘babies’ ..... please change the argument ..... we’ve heard it over and over again.

And we have heard the "Don't trust the government" one over and over.

Yet you "trust the government" in almost every other aspect of your life from the day you are born until the day you die!

eeepaulo

Killester1 wrote: »

No .... I care about both women and babies ..... I don’t trust the Government handling this issue if it is removed from the Constituon.

If the YES crowd are going to bash me now for saying ‘babies’ ..... please change the argument ..... we’ve heard it over and over again.

Or women its seems