8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Hannibal_Smith · 30-04-2018 10:31PM

screamer wrote: »

The right to life is the most basic right. If you haven't got that you ain't got anything......

The right to bodily autonomy is the most basic right. If you haven't got that you ain't got anything.

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 10:32PM

screamer wrote: »

Ah I love the diggers on boards. Anyways to answer your question I took a good look at what is being proposed and as I wrote a few posts ago, if it were to legislate for the minority cases fatal fetal abnormalities etc then yes I would support that. But I just cannot in good conscience vote to allow healthy babies ... I can't vote yes to allow healthy babies just be killed off. I can't. Now we can fight and argue till the cows come home but it won't change my feelings nor my vote. No more than I can change yours and I don't want to. When I vote my conscience will be clear as will my decision.

It's not so much digging when I had read it before and remembered.

What about the women who can't afford a child or is pregnant from rape, as you yourself pointed out?

Healthy babies will not be killed.

robarmstrong · 30-04-2018 10:32PM

GBAAC'ers boys and girls.

Give Birth At All Cost.

Hope it sticks.

Hannibal_Smith · 30-04-2018 10:33PM

screamer wrote: »

Ah I love the diggers on boards. Anyways to answer your question I took a good look at what is being proposed and as I wrote a few posts ago, if it were to legislate for the minority cases fatal fetal abnormalities etc then yes I would support that. But I just cannot in good conscience vote to allow healthy babies ... I can't vote yes to allow healthy babies just be killed off. I can't. Now we can fight and argue till the cows come home but it won't change my feelings nor my vote. No more than I can change yours and I don't want to. When I vote my conscience will be clear as will my decision.

But you changed your feelings on it once, can t they change again? :pac:

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 10:33PM

kylith wrote: »

WHat about the babies with diagnosis of incompatible with life who will be born only to die minutes or hours later in pain?

I believe he's already said that that's fine, so long as the 8th remains and healthy babies aren't murdered.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2018 10:33PM

screamer wrote:

Ah I love the diggers on boards. Anyways to answer your question I took a good look at what is being proposed and as I wrote a few posts ago, if it were to legislate for the minority cases fatal fetal abnormalities etc then yes I would support that. But I just cannot in good conscience vote to allow healthy babies ... I can't vote yes to allow healthy babies just be killed off. I can't. Now we can fight and argue till the cows come home but it won't change my feelings nor my vote. No more than I can change yours and I don't want to. When I vote my conscience will be clear as will my decision.

To be clear then where to you stand on what should happen to women who buy abortion pills online and take them here?

Hannibal_Smith · 30-04-2018 10:35PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I do care about them.
I care SO much about them that I feel they should only be born if they will be wanted and loved and cherished by their parents.
If a woman says she cannot offer that, then I believe her, and respect that decision.
I see no logic or positivity from forcing a woman who neither wants to be pregnant nor to have a baby into motherhood.
It certainly isn’t in the best interests of the child.

This is the very crux of it for me too.

screamer · 30-04-2018 10:35PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

screamer wrote: »

Ah I love the diggers on boards. Anyways to answer your question I took a good look at what is being proposed and as I wrote a few posts ago, if it were to legislate for the minority cases fatal fetal abnormalities etc then yes I would support that. But I just cannot in good conscience vote to allow healthy babies ... I can't vote yes to allow healthy babies just be killed off. I can't. Now we can fight and argue till the cows come home but it won't change my feelings nor my vote. No more than I can change yours and I don't want to. When I vote my conscience will be clear as will my decision.

It's not so much digging when I had read it before and remembered.

What about the women who can't afford a child, as you yourself pointed out?

Healthy babies will not be killed.

There are options if you cannot afford a baby. Healthy babies of course will be killed, up to 12 weeks any baby can be aborted. That's the bit I can't tolerate and that's the source of my no vote

gctest50 · 30-04-2018 10:36PM

screamer wrote: »

........

But I just cannot in good conscience vote to allow healthy babies ... I can't vote yes to ...........

You're not voting to ban travel to the UK or elsewhere

Can't vote yes ? women in Ireland will keep travelling or seek other means

They might start something like the Jane collective

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2018 10:39PM

screamer wrote:

There are options if you cannot afford a baby. Healthy babies of course will be killed, up to 12 weeks any baby can be aborted. That's the bit I can't tolerate and that's the source of my no vote

What are these options? I assume you're not including adoption because it's been clarified over and over that there essentially is no adoption in Ireland..... Maybe we could round all the women up, make them work, then sell their babies to rich Americans... Oh no wait, we tried that before...

NuMarvel · 30-04-2018 10:40PM

Martin Micropenis wrote: »

I am voting no.

Why? I don't think abortion is very nice.

Do I have daughters? Yes, one.
What would I do if she was raped? Would I make her carry the pregnancy to term? No. I would encourage her to give birth but not force her. If she wanted to go to England to avail of abortion, I would reluctantly assist.

Do I believe that the 13th and 14th amendments should be repealed? No.
Why not? Impractical and pointless to enforce.

screamer wrote: »

I'm voting no. I will not vote to allow the termination of the majority so that the minority and rare exceptions are provided for. Same as I wouldn't vote for capital punishment to potentially allow one innocent to die so the countless guilty could be gotten rid of.

No to killing healthy little ones.

The thing with posts like these is that they operate on the presumption that this referendum is about deciding if and why women can have abortions.

But it's not.

It's about deciding where and how they have them. A No vote isn't going to stop abortions; the last 35 years have shown us that. A No vote just means women will have later abortions abroad or have them without medical supervision here. A Yes vote means women can have abortions earlier, and under the care of their local doctors.

A No vote helps no-one, including the unborn. A Yes vote at least helps women.

blanch152 · 30-04-2018 10:44PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

The thing with posts like these is that they operate on the presumption that this referendum is about deciding if and why women can have abortions.

But it's not.

It's about deciding where and how they have them. A No vote isn't going to stop abortions; the last 35 years have shown us that. A No vote just means women will have later abortions abroad or have them without medical supervision here. A Yes vote means women can have abortions earlier, and under the care of their local doctors.

A No vote helps no-one, including the unborn. A Yes vote at least helps women.

It is not even about that.

It is simply about removing a legal abomination from our Constitution that has caused huge amounts of suffering and allowing politicians to do their job and legislate for the people. If you want abortion on demand, lobby your politician, if you want an absolute ban on abortion, lobby your politician.

If you don't like what they decide, vote for someone else the next time who can change it.

Make it just like everything else in society, able to change it depending on how society changes.

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 10:45PM

screamer wrote: »

There are options if you cannot afford a baby. Healthy babies of course will be killed, up to 12 weeks any baby can be aborted. That's the bit I can't tolerate and that's the source of my no vote

No there are not, actually. Adoption is not an option as there are far too many children already in the adoption system. The Adoption Rights Alliance are pro-choice. If I became pregnant, adoption is not an option for me.

A foetus is not a baby. I'm not saying this because I am pro-choice, but because in all definitions, a foetus is not a baby. Legally, medically and scientifically, a foetus becomes a baby when it is born. To call a foetus a baby is only trying to stir rubbish.

I know I added it in late, but what about women who have been raped (also what you mentioned in your pro-choice post)

NuMarvel · 30-04-2018 10:47PM

screamer wrote: »

There are options if you cannot afford a baby.

Name 5 options women in a crisis pregnancy have.

Yeah_Right · 30-04-2018 11:03PM

Martin Micropenis wrote: »

So in what situations is it acceptable to vote no?

Am I worse than a hardline Youth Defencer who doesn't believe in any abortion anywhere and would force their child to carry a rapist's baby?

No voters are going to fall into a few different groups.
Are they all as bad as each other?

You're basically the same as Justin Barrett. Fight against something due to your principles but throw those principles out when it suits you like he did when it came to divorce.

kylith · 30-04-2018 11:07PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Name 5 options women in a crisis pregnancy have.

Adoption
Go to England
Build time machine, go back in time and use 7 kinds of contraceptive
Put up
Shut up
Ummmm, be thankful they don’t get shoved in workhouses any more?

indy_man · 30-04-2018 11:13PM

Saving the 8th is about making killing legal. end of story.

https://sites.google.com/view/reasonstosavethe8th

Admin Note: link contains graphic abortion related images that are NSFW

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 11:15PM

indy_man wrote: »

Saving the 8th is about making killing legal. end of story.

https://sites.google.com/view/reasonstosavethe8th

Admin Note: link contains graphic abortion related images that are NSFW

Killing will not be legal after the 8th is repealed. Killing is not legal even in countries where abortion in legal. Travelling to the UK to kill would give you a jail sentence.

swampgas · 30-04-2018 11:19PM

screamer wrote: »

There are options if you cannot afford a baby. Healthy babies of course will be killed, up to 12 weeks any baby can be aborted. That's the bit I can't tolerate and that's the source of my no vote

Seriously, at 12 weeks it's really not a baby (yet). Thinking of a 12 week foetus in the same way as a new-born baby seems to be a common factor among people strongly opposed to abortion.

Anyhow. Here is a fact you might want to consider: you can't make another woman want to be pregnant.

You can put obstacles in her way, to try to stop her getting an abortion, but you can't make her want to be pregnant if she doesn't want to be. Basically what you are doing is trying to force a woman to stay pregnant against her will.

Do you think that if you force a woman to stay pregnant, that they will eventually get over it? That once the baby is born they will bond with it and everything will be okay? I have news for you: the world isn't like that. It really, really isn't, much as it might suit you to think so.

How far are you prepared to go to prevent other women having abortions? Are you prepared to lock them up, for months, until the baby is born ? Force feed them if they won't eat? Perform unwanted C-Sections? Strap them to a bed if they try to self-harm?

Does that sound excessive and hysterical? Guess what - many of these things have already happened. The 8th has caused horrible things to happen to very vulnerable women.

Or are you okay with abortion in the UK, maybe you feel that's out of your control, and you can salve your conscience by thinking that women who really want abortions can go and get one, but at least you didn't support it? Well it's the same "healthy baby" being aborted, so why should *that* be okay? Surely you should be looking to repeal the right to travel as well?

You might not like abortion, but then again nobody does. Pro-choice people would be delighted if abortion was never needed.

You might want to think about what will actually change if the 8th is repealed, and how it might be better for you and your female friends and children. Think of all the problems the 8th can cause, do you really want to risk someone you love being another Savita?

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 11:19PM

kylith wrote: »

Adoption
Go to England
Build time machine, go back in time and use 7 kinds of contraceptive
Put up
Shut up
Ummmm, be thankful they don’t get shoved in workhouses any more?

Scream and writhe in agony as one woman on In Her Shoes did when her baby was born side first but she was given no pain medication or even told what was happening because the baby didn't seem distressed. It tore her apart internally and there wasn't a thing done to stop it because the baby was fine and so the midwife was happy enough for the woman to keep pushing. Of course, she developed PND but that's okay. It doesn't matter if she feels suicidal afterwards. As long as the 8th remains in place to stop all those dirty sluts murdering babies during their lunch breaks a month before their due date because they have a holiday coming up to Ibiza, right?

baylah17 · 30-04-2018 11:20PM

indy_man wrote: »

Saving the 8th is about making killing legal. end of story.

https://sites.google.com/view/reasonstosavethe8th

Admin Note: link contains graphic abortion related images that are NSFW

A new low
The depravity of the no side knows no bounds

kenmc · 30-04-2018 11:23PM

screamer wrote: »

Ah I love the diggers on boards. Anyways to answer your question I took a good look at what is being proposed and as I wrote a few posts ago, if it were to legislate for the minority cases fatal fetal abnormalities etc then yes I would support that. But I just cannot in good conscience vote to allow healthy babies ... I can't vote yes to allow healthy babies just be killed off. I can't. Now we can fight and argue till the cows come home but it won't change my feelings nor my vote. No more than I can change yours and I don't want to. When I vote my conscience will be clear as will my decision.

But you're OK voting no in order to allow "healthy babies" be killed in England, and their ashes couriered back to their parents who can't afford to travel back for the funeral? Or are you only OK voting no so that women have to become criminals by ordering pills online, taking them in secret and hoping that the pain they experience is normal, and not a massive uterine rupture?

Sick fcuk.

kylith · 30-04-2018 11:23PM

Medics for 8th produces list of ‘supporting doctors’ that includes dead people, lists GPS as obstetricians, and many doctors aren’t even in Ireland.

https://twitter.com/maryniloc/status/9
90979117062422528?s=20

The Legend Of Kira · 30-04-2018 11:24PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

screamer wrote:

The right to life is the most basic right. If you haven't got that you ain't got anything......

Yeah it's rough being a woman alright when your right to life is compromised by the constitution of your country

The 2013 act passed by the previous government already allows for abortion to take place when the life of the mother is under threat.

indy_man · 30-04-2018 11:25PM

baylah17 wrote: »

A new low
The depravity of the no side knows no bounds

Stopping a heart is killing, lets face up to the fact. That is not depravity just fact.

kenmc · 30-04-2018 11:28PM

indy_man wrote: »

Stopping a heart is killing, lets face up to the fact. That is not depravity just fact.

Are you a vegetarian? If not, why is it OK to kill an animal, but not a foetus? Is it only ok if it tastes nice?

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 11:28PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

The 2013 act passed by the previous government already allows for abortion to take place when the life of the mother is under threat.

When the mother is actively dying. It does not account for extreme pain or suffering. It does not account for the threat of death. It does not account for anything except for when the mother is on the countdown towards death, and even then, it's a bit wishy washy and open to interpretation.

baylah17 · 30-04-2018 11:30PM

indy_man wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

A new low
The depravity of the no side knows no bounds

Stopping a heart is killing, lets face up to the fact. That is not depravity just fact.

G F Y

swampgas · 30-04-2018 11:31PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

The 2013 act passed by the previous government already allows for abortion to take place when the life of the mother is under threat.

Which amounts to playing Russian Roulette with women's lives - let's just wait until your *life* is at risk - really?

Never mind any risk to your health. The 8th says that a pregnancy that will blind you or cripple you or prevent you getting early treatment for cancer must be continued, and to hell with the consequences, as long as the woman is still breathing afterwards.

It's barbaric.

Ave Sodalis · 30-04-2018 11:33PM

indy_man wrote: »

Stopping a heart is killing, lets face up to the fact. That is not depravity just fact.

Why are you not campaigning for the repeal of the 13th and 14th amendments, if you believe abortion is killing?

I don't know about you, but if our constitution had bits in it that tell me it's legal for me to go abroad to murder people, and it's legal for me to give out leaflet on how to murder people abroad... I'd be pretty active in trying to get them removed.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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