The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

taserfrank wrote: »

Looking at the Sunday Business Post/Red C poll today, the support for yes has dropped again while the no side remains unchanged, and the number of undecideds has increased. I think if this keeps up, the no side will hopefully have it, as people come to realize that abortion on demand is not desirable.

Eh, the no side is unchanged. As long as that continues, they cannot win:

Just on the embryo as a child comparison. If I found out this morning that I was pregnant I'd be beyond over joyed. I'd probably already have lists of names, I'd have mentally rearranged my house, probably spend hours working out the costings of an extension. I'd probably have started knitting or crocheting baby cardigans. I'd be so happy.

But then say tonight my house went on fire and I could get out immediately ensuring absolutely no risk to my pregnancy. Or I could take the time to get to my sleeping 5 year old and save him but doing so would cause stress and smoke inhalation and guarantee a miscarriage. It's not exactly Sophie's Choice is it. It's not any sort of choice. I wouldn't hesitate for one instant to save my actual, living, breathing, incontrovertibly sentient child. And I very much doubt that one single person on this thread would act any differently. No matter what they say, nobody could consider an embryo conceived 2 weeks ago as even remotely comparable or equal to a kid who dreams of being a palaeontologist (as long as I go run his museum for him so he can always come home to me each night), is desperate to save Amur Leopards from extinction and has spent the last 2 years counting down to his seventh birthday when he'll finally be old enough to play Lego Dimensions. Because they just aren't the same.

When it comes down to it, I don't think that anyone really, really believes that an embryo and a child are equal. I don't think anyone of sound state of mind would save a dish of 100 embryos from a fire if there was one terrified child screaming for help in the next room. When we think of embryos as babies we are projecting our own wishes and imagination onto a being with the potential to be a child. And I think we all understand that on a base level.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, the no side is unchanged. As long as that continues, they cannot win:

I'd expect the absolute lies, deception and incitement of fear to massively escalate from the forced birth brigade based on those figures.

gandalf wrote: »

I'd expect the absolute lies, deception and incitement of fear to massively escalate from the forced birth brigade based on those figures.

I'm expecting the next few weeks to get very nasty indeed.

I can only hope that the lower into the gutter the No campaign sinks, the more people will be revolted by it rather than swayed by it.

swampgas wrote: »

I'm expecting the next few weeks to get very nasty indeed.

I can only hope that the lower into the gutter the No campaign sinks, the more people will be revolted by it rather than swayed by it.

When No goes low, Yes goes high.

PhoenixParker wrote: »

My point is that in general we allow people to decide what level of inconvenience they’re willing to undergo to save someone’s life, only in the case of pregnancy do we make an exception.

Your hatred shines through.
Dismissing pregnancy as a minor inconvenience, and those wishing to have a choice about their bodies as narcissistic and whiny teenagers.

The reality is different, hopes, dreams, health struggles, lifetime commitments, existing children needing care . . . Real women, real lives. You have to dismiss them and belittle them to convince yourself they don’t matter.

Pregnancy is not a slight inconvenience, nor is childbirth or raising a child.
It’s months of exhaustion and sickness, pain, years of sleepless nights and a lifelong commitment to another human being. When it’s wanted and wished for it’s the most fantastic thing, when it’s not it’s a life sentence of misery for both

You’re staring so hard at the belly you can’t see the woman.

Being killed is pretty inconvenient too.

You're staring so hard at the word choice you can't see the baby.

conorhal wrote: »

Being killed is pretty inconvenient too.

You're staring so hard at the word choice you can't see the baby.

Living women are more important and valuable than >12 week old fetuses. It shouldn’t even be up for discussion.

If you are willing to sacrifice the health, happiness and wellbeing of your partner because you hold the >12 week old fetus in her uterus to be more valuable than her, that’s your own business.

I shouldn’t have my maternity care compromised because of how you feel about it. How you feel about it has nothing to do with the contents of my womb. You shouldn’t get to have an opinion on it.

amdublin wrote:

It will impact my emotional well-being if repeal doesn't pass. Like I will be devastated on the day. There will be tears.

I would be devastated as well.
Because if the 8th remains it can effect any pregnancy I may have.

The anti choice people here (mostly men it seems) will never have their lives put in danger because of it. For many anti choice people a yes vote won't impact their lives at all.

Yet they want to take our rights away from us and say tough luck. You can't have adequate medical care because there's sluts out there who deserve to become mothers.

If I found out tomorrow that I was pregnant I would consider abortion. I already have a child and I cannot afford another. I would like to one day own a home, help him through college (if that is what he wants) it seems like an impossible dream. So if tomorrow I found out I was pregnant I would have to consider the implication for my child. The little human I have been watching grow for 8 years would come first. I actually would like another child but it would be selfish of me as then I would be bringing them up in poverty.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm interested in how people feel about allowing the Government to have full control over future legislation in the event of the 8th amendment being repealed?

I'd far rather give the government the power to legislate than ensure their hands are absolutely tied so they can't legislate. Which in turns means that doctors can't make medically informed decisions in the best interests of their parents.

mohawk wrote: »

If I found out tomorrow that I was pregnant I would consider abortion. I already have a child and I cannot afford another. I would like to one day own a home, help him through college (if that is what he wants) it seems like an impossible dream. So if tomorrow I found out I was pregnant I would have to consider the implication for my child. The little human I have been watching grow for 8 years would come first. I actually would like another child but it would be selfish of me as then I would be bringing them up in poverty.[/

Why wait till it happens!!! Take control of your body. That’s what the YES want isn’t it ....my body my choice ..... everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions and not have abortion as the fall back.

conorhal wrote: »

Even talking to a retard?

Let Owen Benjamin explain the word to you.

The word is not acceptable.
End of.

(Although I'm not sure what the politically correct word is, whatever it is, I'm sure that I'm currently corresponding with one )

Just reading through a lot of the posts here and the lack of respect and understanding from some yes voters for people who vote no is appalling really. Many calling anyone who votes no as idiots stupid etc. is quite insulting to be honest. It has come to the situation where people are afraid to express they are voting no in public which does not encourage healthy debate.

As someone who is going to vote no I have thought long and hard about this referendum and i understand where yes voters are coming from and I respect their views in terms of cases of rape, ffa and danger of life to the mother. However the unlimited abortion up to 12 weeks goes way too far for my liking and that is why I am voting no.

I can assure you I am not anti-women, an idiot, a jesus freak or whatever insult some yes campaigners would like to call me but someone with a conscience to protect the most vulnerable in our society who are the unborn that at 12 weeks have a heartbeat and so many humane features.

That’s just my thoughts on the matter and i will exercise my democratic right on may 25th by voting no. If the result is yes i will accept the result however if the result is no I fear the backlash.

Poyndexter wrote: »

Just reading through a lot of the posts here and the lack of respect and understanding from some yes voters for people who vote no is appalling really. Many calling anyone who votes no as idiots stupid etc. is quite insulting to be honest. It has come to the situation where people are afraid to express they are voting no in public which does not encourage healthy debate.

It's amazing how reading that you can't tell if the poster is talking about this referendum or the SSM referendum.