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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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Comments

  • #9362
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    erica74 wrote: »
    I've asked it already a few times and I know others have too, still no answer though - to any antichoice person, what difference does it make to you personally whether any woman anywhere has an abortion?

    That's not the point. In fact, they are happiest if it makes no difference at all to anyone and the abortions happen in England, which is why they voted to put travel rights in the Constitution.

    The point is not that it makes a difference to them, the point is not to even save babies -

    the point is to make sluts and whores do the walk of shame to the Ryanair gate and keep Holy Catholic Soil sin free.


  • #9363
    taserfrank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 52 ✭✭taserfrank


    Slunk wrote: »
    Hi, im notnsure if thosnis allowed or theres a more appropriate place to post but basically Im in Toronto and trying to get home to Vote. Every vote counts and flight prices are getting crazy. Ive set up a gofundme to help somewhat towards cost of getting home. Any help would be appreciated.

    This is disgraceful. Irrespective of what way you vote, you are setting up a gofundme page for what is essentially a holiday to Ireland under the pretext of voting in the referendum.


  • #9364
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    pleas advice wrote: »
    this from the US, can't imagine it'll just be medical abortions here up to 12 weeks

    Imagine whatever you like. That is the law as proposed.


  • #9365
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    taserfrank wrote: »
    This is disgraceful. Irrespective of what way you vote, you are setting up a gofundme page for what is essentially a holiday to Ireland under the pretext of voting in the referendum.

    Yes, but falls under comical rather than disgraceful, I think. Especially if it works.


  • #9366
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    That's not the point. In fact, they are happiest if it makes no difference at all to anyone and the abortions happen in England, which is why they voted to put travel rights in the Constitution.

    The point is not that it makes a difference to them, the point is not to even save babies -

    the point is to make sluts and whores do the walk of shame to the Ryanair gate and keep Holy Catholic Soil sin free.
    I only see one side calling people sluts and whores...


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  • #9367
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Imagine whatever you like. That is the law as proposed.

    law for only medical?


  • #9368
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I only see one side calling people sluts and whores...

    That is because your reading comprehension needs a lot of work.


  • #9369
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    pleas advice wrote: »
    law for only medical?

    Two bits for a large one?


  • #9370
    Killester1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 ✭Killester1


    Does anyone know if there is a limit to the number of abortions a person can have ?? If someone is refused their third abortion (for example) .... can they sue the State?


  • #9371
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there is a limit to the number of abortions a person can have ?

    No, there is no limit today with the 8th in place, there will be no limit after it is repealed.

    But we will give you a voucher after 5 for a free facelift.


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  • #9372
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there is a limit to the number of abortions a person can have ?? If someone is refused their third abortion (for example) .... can they sue the State?

    It’s not a flipping loyalty card.


  • #9373
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    taserfrank wrote: »
    Personally, that kind of situation is one I'm afraid we could have if the referendum is passed. I'm trying to read as much as I can on this, but so far I'm not convinced.

    Oh look, another "I'm on the fence, convince me to vote Yes" but I'm really a no voter.

    If you want to educate yourself, read the thread and also refcom.ie - it has all the information you need.

    Repeal all the way - body autonomy for all.


  • #9374
    Killester1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 ✭Killester1


    amcalester wrote: »
    It’s not a flipping loyalty card.

    Too right it isn’t ! That’s why I asked the question.


  • #9375
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Too right it isn’t ! That’s why I asked the question.

    I know why you asked the question.

    It was a sly dig at women, trying to imply that if the 8th is repealed it’ll knickers down on a Saturday night and straight to the clinic on Monday.


  • #9376
    mohawk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭mohawk


    Brief summary of some of the facts related to retaining/repealing the 8th:

    1. Irish women are having abortions. We voted to give them the right to travel. An unknown number are ordering pills online and having abortions on Irish soil without medical supervision. Voting no does not prevent abortion.

    2. The vast majority of abortions are in first trimester.

    3. Voting yes would give couples facing a FFA diagnosis options - continue pregnancy, abortion or induction.

    4. Medical professionals do not need your consent when you are pregnant. Manually breaking waters, Episiotomies etc they can just do it.

    5. Women taking medications that cause birth defects are taken off these drugs as soon as their doctor discovers they are pregnant. Example of these medications include anti-seizure medication Sodium Valporate. It can have very serious consequences on a woman's health to drastically stop her medication.

    6. Morning after pill does not work if you have already ovulated.

    7. Lack of abortion doesn't make Ireland a safe place to give birth. We are a developed nation. Developed nations have better maternal morality outcomes.


  • #9377
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Why the horrible misogynistic attitude towards women and them having abortions, and how many abortions they could have pursued?

    Seriously, these are the individuals who have to go through it all, it's their body that has to suffer a miscarriage, it's their body that has to suffer an abortion, it's their body that has to suffer the onsets and drawbacks of pregnancy, show them some respect.

    So what if some women get repeat abortions, you don't know the circumstances behind it, they might have had 6 abortions but they might have had 6 abortions so that they didn't have to suffer 6 miscarriages, you don't know, so for the love of Christ, please show them some respect.

    Honestly the attitudes shown thus far towards women just f*cking disgusts me and makes me ashamed to be a man.

    One of the things that has come out of this whole discussion/debate/referendum is the downright disgusting, horrendous, archaic and misogynistic attitude shown towards women these days.


  • #9378
    Killester1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 ✭Killester1


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Why the horrible misogynistic attitude towards women and them having abortions, and how many abortions they could have pursued?

    Seriously, these are the individuals who have to go through it all, it's their body that has to suffer a miscarriage, it's their body that has to suffer an abortion, it's their body that has to suffer the onsets and drawbacks of pregnancy, show them some respect.

    So what if some women get repeat abortions, you don't know the circumstances behind it, they might have had 6 abortions but they might have had 6 abortions so that they didn't have to suffer 6 miscarriages, you don't know, so for the love of Christ, please show them some respect.

    Honestly the attitudes shown thus far towards women just f*cking disgusts me and makes me ashamed to be a man.

    The unborn deserve rights and respect too.


  • #9379
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Killester1 wrote: »
    The unborn deserve rights and respect too.

    Is that excuse enough to continuously degrade and berate women seeking abortions like the attitude that has been shown previously in this thread?

    Nobody disrespects the unborn, they also have one right which is all they are entitled to until they become a born citizen.


  • #9380
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Killester1 wrote: »
    The unborn deserve rights and respect too.


    I am a human, fully formed, living with a right to life as are you. Let's suppose for a moment a foetus is too.

    Imagine for instance that I need a blood donation. You are the only match. Without your blood I will die. My right to life does not trump your right to bodily autonomy.

    It’s a procedure that would take maybe an hour and register as barely more than a scratch but the HSE will not have you hauled in, pinned down and your blood extracted. You can say no. Everyone might think you’re horrible for saying no, curse you, ostracize you whatever, but the courts or medical system wouldn’t force you

    A fetus may indeed have a right to life just as much as you or I, but just as I don’t have a right to bits of your body, while fetus needs somebody else’s womb to survive, it is the person whose womb it is who gets to decide if she will carry it.

    A fetus’s right to life (or any other conceivable rights) shouldn’t preclude a woman from having an abortion.


  • #9381
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Killester1 wrote: »
    The unborn deserve rights and respect too.

    And we can do that in legislation, where it's easier, and more appropriate, to set out the protections the unborn and balance them with the rights of the woman.


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  • #9382
    lillycakes2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭lillycakes2


    mohawk wrote: »
    Brief summary of some of the facts related to retaining/repealing the 8th:

    1. Irish women are having abortions. We voted to give them the right to travel. An unknown number are ordering pills online and having abortions on Irish soil without medical supervision. Voting no does not prevent abortion.

    2. The vast majority of abortions are in first trimester.

    3. Voting yes would give couples facing a FFA diagnosis options - continue pregnancy, abortion or induction.

    4. Medical professionals do not need your consent when you are pregnant. Manually breaking waters, Episiotomies etc they can just do it.

    5. Women taking medications that cause birth defects are taken off these drugs as soon as their doctor discovers they are pregnant. Example of these medications include anti-seizure medication Sodium Valporate. It can have very serious consequences on a woman's health to drastically stop her medication.

    6. Morning after pill does not work if you have already ovulated.

    7. Lack of abortion doesn't make Ireland a safe place to give birth. We are a developed nation. Developed nations have better maternal morality outcomes.

    Your 6th point is totally inaccurate .


  • #9383
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lillycakes2 wrote: »
    Your 6th point is totally inaccurate .


    https://thefemedic.com/contraception/levonelle-ellaone-how-morning-after-pill-works/

    How effective is the morning after pill?

    How effective is the morning after pill?

    Both Levonelle and ellaOne are generally effective only if taken before the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation), ie early on in the cycle. The sooner you take them, the more effective they will be. If you have unprotected sex in the 24 hour window immediately after ovulation, the period of time when the released egg can still be fertilised, then taking emergency contraception after this is unlikely to be effective, although the morning after pill may make the uterus environment less receptive to implantation, so there is a possibility that pregnancy could still be prevented.


  • #9384
    Killester1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 ✭Killester1


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    https://thefemedic.com/contraception/levonelle-ellaone-how-morning-after-pill-works/

    How effective is the morning after pill?

    How effective is the morning after pill?

    Both Levonelle and ellaOne are generally effective only if taken before the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation), ie early on in the cycle. The sooner you take them, the more effective they will be. If you have unprotected sex in the 24 hour window immediately after ovulation, the period of time when the released egg can still be fertilised, then taking emergency contraception after this is unlikely to be effective, although the morning after pill may make the uterus environment less receptive to implantation, so there is a possibility that pregnancy could still be prevented.

    Levonelle needs to be taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, whereas EllaOne can be taken until up to 120 hours after unprotected sex. The sooner after sex you take the morning after pill, the better - this goes for both Levonelle and Ellaone.


  • #9385
    smokingman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭smokingman


    I see the guards were called to Waterford today and arrested anti-choice lunatics with massive posters of dead foetuses and waving them in passing childrens faces.

    Stay classy anti-choice!


  • #9386
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Levonelle needs to be taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, whereas EllaOne can be taken until up to 120 hours after unprotected sex. The sooner after sex you take the morning after pill, the better - this goes for both Levonelle and Ellaone.

    What did the poster I quoted say?


  • #9387
    mohawk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭mohawk


    lillycakes2 wrote: »
    Your 6th point is totally inaccurate .

    Apologies it is badly worded. Primary mechanism of action is by preventing ovulation. If you have already ovulated then the drug cannot prevent ovulation. Secondary mechanism of action is not as reliable.

    Thanks for pointing this out. You never know who could be reading this and information is power.


  • #9388
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Two bits for a large one?

    I don't know what you mean there, but the abortion pills are most effective if taken before the eleventh week, and even at that are not 100%.

    are you saying there will be no surgical abortions before or at 12 weeks?


  • #9389
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    smokingman wrote: »
    I see the guards were called to Waterford today and arrested anti-choice lunatics with massive posters of dead foetuses and waving them in passing childrens faces.

    Stay classy anti-choice!

    Ah I probably missed all of that, I was in town earlier in the day and the prochoice and antichoice groups were right next to each other hanging out leaflets so I can definitely imagine that it got heated.


  • #9390
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I don't know what you mean there, but the abortion pills are most effective if taken before the eleventh week, and even at that are not 100%.

    are you saying there will be no surgical abortions before or at 12 weeks?

    The abortion pills will not suit everyone so surgical abortions will need to be available.


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  • #9391
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is clear for the majority of older people that retain/No is the compassionate position to be on, who some on the Yes side have attacked with ageism comments.
    I don’t know you, and it is not my place to judge you as an individual even if I did as to make out I am somehow perfect.
    I think yes for compassion is a lie as most of the abortions would be healthy women aborting healthy unborn. I think a lot of older wise people would also see through this Yes slogan lie.

    Ive noticed this slogan "healthy women and healthy babies" a lot recently. Is that a message they are pushing?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



This discussion has been closed.
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