The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

seamus · 26-04-2018 04:27PM

They might be all collectively facepalming John McGuirk's attempt to tell a leading expert in obstetrics that he's wrong, "just because".

robarmstrong · 26-04-2018 04:28PM

circadian wrote: »

There hasn't been a Save the 8th supporter all day and this thread has just descended into sarcasm.

Never thought I'd see the day.

To be fair, what's the point of them coming into the thread? The majority of them have made wild and outlandish statements and claims and lies and were proven wrong, threadbanned and done.

If that's all that they can resort to instead of having a discussion without manipulating facts and figures then that's their choice* not to post in here.

*

....... · 26-04-2018 04:28PM

This post has been deleted.

amcalester · 26-04-2018 04:41PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

To be fair, what's the point of them coming into the thread? The majority of them have made wild and outlandish statements and claims and lies and were proven wrong, threadbanned and done.

If that's all that they can resort to instead of having a discussion without manipulating facts and figures then that's their choice* not to post in here.

*

I had some No campaigners at the door last night, I told them I wasn't interested, had done my research and made up my mind.

She offered me a booklet and made a point of saying it had been fact checked.

It made me wonder if they were getting much flak at people's doors for some of the more dubious No claims.

robarmstrong · 26-04-2018 04:43PM

amcalester wrote: »

I had some No campaigners at the door last night, I told them I wasn't interested, had done my research and made up my mind.

She offered me a booklet and made a point of saying it had been fact checked.

It made me wonder if they were getting much flak at people's doors for some of the more dubious No claims.

They are absolutely getting flak for the more dubious no claims, did you get a copy of the booklet though, just for our reference so we can see if it was genuinely fact checked?

amcalester · 26-04-2018 04:46PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

They are absolutely getting flak for the more dubious no claims, did you get a copy of the booklet though, just for our reference so we can see if it was genuinely fact checked?

I didn't, only thought afterwards that it would have been interesting to read/fact check.

whisky_galore · 26-04-2018 04:46PM

Saw posters from BOTH sides pulled down in one location in an apparent tit-for-tat.
Real mature.

robarmstrong · 26-04-2018 04:51PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Saw posters from BOTH sides pulled down in one location in an apparent tit-for-tat.
Real mature.

If the pro-life crowd in that situation were posting up those inaccurate lies then whatever happens their posters is fair game, no need to spread lies and false information.

circular flexing · 26-04-2018 05:10PM

amcalester wrote: »

I had some No campaigners at the door last night, I told them I wasn't interested, had done my research and made up my mind.

She offered me a booklet and made a point of saying it had been fact checked.

It made me wonder if they were getting much flak at people's doors for some of the more dubious No claims.

None of the no side material has been fact checked - they are completely making stuff up. I hope people are waking up to this more and more.

iguana · 26-04-2018 05:22PM

....... wrote: »

I too think it will appear to go up because we are missing the data on women who order pills online, who dont use an Irish address in a UK clinic and who dont use UK clinics at all but go elsewhere (where they may have family or friends).

But I doubt very much it will actually go up.

I imagine we'll also have Northern Irish women coming here. It will be much easier to drive or get a bus to the nearest Irish county with an abortion service than it will be to fly or sail to Britain. Even if you have to come back again 72 hours after your initial appointment driving from Derry to Donegal is pretty straightforward.

Sofiztikated · 26-04-2018 05:59PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

They are absolutely getting flak for the more dubious no claims, did you get a copy of the booklet though, just for our reference so we can see if it was genuinely fact checked?

I got one the other day, if its the same one.

Here's a few pages.

robarmstrong · 26-04-2018 06:04PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I got one the other day, if its the same one.

Here's a few pages.

Jesus there isn't a single shred of truth on a single one of them.

Wow.

Sofiztikated · 26-04-2018 06:11PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Jesus there isn't a single shred of truth on a single one of them.

Wow.

But wait, there's more!

FingerDeKat · 26-04-2018 06:38PM

Wrong thread lol

gmisk · 26-04-2018 07:07PM

FingerDeKat wrote: »

Anyone remember the Hari Krishna tent ? Best music at the festival !!!

I think wrong thread... Lol

gmisk · 26-04-2018 07:08PM

Just had two lovely together for yes canvassers at the door.
Very friendly and getting a good reception apparently but even they think it will be close!
Every vote is gonna be important I think!

PopePalpatine · 26-04-2018 07:26PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I wouldn't be so sure. It could be another instance of the "Shy Tory/Brexit/Trump" phenomenon. After all, Repeal has yet to break 50% in referendum polling when "Don't Knows" are included.

It wasnt me123 · 26-04-2018 07:39PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure. It could be another instance of the "Shy Tory/Brexit/Trump" phenomenon. After all, Repeal has yet to break 50% in referendum polling when "Don't Knows" are included.

Thats not true. The last MRBI had Repeal at over 60%

Can you show me the poll you are referring to?

Is there a poll showing Save the 8th breaking 50% with don't knows?

Repeal all the way

Billy86 · 26-04-2018 07:48PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

But wait, there's more!

Cheers, that was... interesting! I've put them all on one scroll-down image and rotated to make it a bit easier to go through, attached below (click to zoom).

Sofiztikated · 26-04-2018 07:51PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Cheers, that was... interesting! I've put them all on one scroll-down image and rotated to make it a bit easier to go through, attached below (click to zoom).

Cheers. New phone, and it decided to be wonky with the pics, flipping them all over the shop.

They didn't even knock at the door. Asked a couple of neighbours, and they didn't get a knock either.

pitifulgod · 26-04-2018 08:00PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Thats not true. The last MRBI had Repeal at over 60%

Can you show me the poll you are referring to?

Is there a poll showing Save the 8th breaking 50% with don't knows?

Repeal all the way

Palpatine and I are both pro repeal, think it's incredibly wise to not be complacent. There's an undecided demographic of 20%, a proportion of them are very likely some silent no voters. So hopefully support rises in next month.

erica74 · 26-04-2018 08:05PM

I passed a new antichoice poster this morning. It says "if killing an unborn baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no". I think an abortion at 6 months is an even more important reason to repeal. If a woman seeks an abortion 6 months into her pregnancy, you can be damn sure it's for a very valid reason. I think something like less than 3% of abortions carried out in the UK occur that late in a pregnancy.
I don't understand how the antichoice side think this sort of message is going to work in their favour. If I was undecided, my first port of call on reading that poster would be researching WHY a woman would seek an abortion at that stage of a pregnancy, in order to understand it.

stockdam · 26-04-2018 08:06PM

It really comes down to belief. I believe that is is not right to terminate a fetus and would therefore vote accordingly. There's more in this than just the rights of the mother to decide as to what to do with her body. The fetus is a living person or will develop into a living person (if you want to see it that way) and it relies on the mother to keep it alive. An abortion will terminate its existence/life.

So for me you have to consider the rights of the fetus and I certainly am not of the opinion that it doesn't have any rights to life.

Yes there all a lot of complicated discussions and it's not easy but abortion isn't the answer either.

pitifulgod · 26-04-2018 08:08PM

erica74 wrote: »

I passed a new antichoice poster this morning. It says "if killing an unborn baby at 6 months bothers you, vote no". I think an abortion at 6 months is an even more important reason to repeal. If a woman seeks an abortion 6 months into her pregnancy, you can be damn sure it's for a very valid reason. I think something like less than 3% of abortions carried out in the UK occur that late in a pregnancy.
I don't understand how the antichoice side think this sort of message is going to work in their favour. If I was undecided, my first port of call on reading that poster would be researching WHY a woman would seek an abortion at that stage of a pregnancy, in order to understand it.

Also, lack of availability of abortion makes it far more likely to have second trimester abortions.

tunguska · 26-04-2018 09:06PM

Me and a friend were leaving a restaurant sunday afternoon when we come upon a "Vote No" poster which someone had taken the liberty to write upon in black marker. What that person wrote seemed pretty ignorant and aggressive. Ive since come across a number of "No" posters that had been defaced or damaged. I have yet to come across one "Vote Yes" poster that had been interfered with. There seems to be an under current of aggression to this whole thing, coming from only one side I might add. Its the side that thinks its right and has the higher moral ground. But all this shows is that when someone doesnt agree with the majority view they are set upon. Respect peoples views please. Even if you dont agree with the other person respect their right to have a different outlook than you.
I'll be voting yes, but I still think that some folks on the Yes side of things need to grow up and stop being so aggressive. I noticed the same thing around the time of the Marriage referendum not so long ago. Like a liberal mafia going after anyone who dare to vote a different way to them. Have a civilised debate and be open minded, if you put aside your own anger you might actually learn something from someone who doesnt agree with you.

BabysCoffee · 26-04-2018 09:09PM

tunguska wrote: »

Me and a friend were leaving a restaurant sunday afternoon when we come upon a "Vote No" poster which someone had taken the liberty to write upon in black marker. What that person wrote seemed pretty ignorant and aggressive. Ive since come across a number of "No" posters that had been defaced or damaged. I have yet to come across one "Vote Yes" poster that had been interfered with. There seems to be an under current of aggression to this whole thing, coming from only one side I might add. Its the side that thinks its right and has the higher moral ground. But all this shows is that when someone doesnt agree with the majority view they are set upon. Respect peoples views please. Even if you dont agree with the other person respect their right to have a different outlook than you.
I'll be voting yes, but I still think that some folks on the Yes side of things need to grow up and stop being so aggressive. I noticed the same thing around the time of the Marriage referendum not so long ago. Like a liberal mafia going after anyone who dare to vote a different way to them. Have a civilised debate and be open minded, if you put aside your own anger you might actually learn something from someone who doesnt agree with you.

What exactly might I learn from the anti-choicers, do you think?

Hannibal_Smith · 26-04-2018 09:20PM

tunguska wrote: »

Me and a friend were leaving a restaurant sunday afternoon when we come upon a "Vote No" poster which someone had taken the liberty to write upon in black marker. What that person wrote seemed pretty ignorant and aggressive. Ive since come across a number of "No" posters that had been defaced or damaged. I have yet to come across one "Vote Yes" poster that had been interfered with. There seems to be an under current of aggression to this whole thing, coming from only one side I might add. Its the side that thinks its right and has the higher moral ground. But all this shows is that when someone doesnt agree with the majority view they are set upon. Respect peoples views please. Even if you dont agree with the other person respect their right to have a different outlook than you.
I'll be voting yes, but I still think that some folks on the Yes side of things need to grow up and stop being so aggressive. I noticed the same thing around the time of the Marriage referendum not so long ago. Like a liberal mafia going after anyone who dare to vote a different way to them. Have a civilised debate and be open minded, if you put aside your own anger you might actually learn something from someone who doesnt agree with you.

I think the posters are p*ssing people off because they're not reflecting the truth. Either way I don't think people should let a poster, or defacement of said poster sway their vote.

Reference to the same sex marriage referendum annoys me. So I may be a walking example of that aggression you describe. For me, that was about equality. One couple who loved each other can ceremonially commit to each other, but another couple cant because of their gender? It's about time we started looking at how same sex couples have been treated with absolute shame.

Zubeneschamali · 26-04-2018 09:27PM

tunguska wrote: »

If you put aside your own anger you might actually learn something from someone who doesnt agree with you.

Not judging by the posts in this thread I won't.

captbarnacles · 26-04-2018 09:28PM

stockdam wrote: »

It really comes down to belief. I believe that is is not right to terminate a fetus and would therefore vote accordingly. There's more in this than just the rights of the mother to decide as to what to do with her body. The fetus is a living person or will develop into a living person (if you want to see it that way) and it relies on the mother to keep it alive. An abortion will terminate its existence/life.

So for me you have to consider the rights of the fetus and I certainly am not of the opinion that it doesn't have any rights to life.

Yes there all a lot of complicated discussions and it's not easy but abortion isn't the answer either.

How do you feel about Irish women travelling to England for abortion or ordering pills online?

Sofiztikated · 26-04-2018 09:29PM

tunguska wrote: »

Me and a friend were leaving a restaurant sunday afternoon when we come upon a "Vote No" poster which someone had taken the liberty to write upon in black marker. What that person wrote seemed pretty ignorant and aggressive. Ive since come across a number of "No" posters that had been defaced or damaged. I have yet to come across one "Vote Yes" poster that had been interfered with. There seems to be an under current of aggression to this whole thing, coming from only one side I might add. Its the side that thinks its right and has the higher moral ground. But all this shows is that when someone doesnt agree with the majority view they are set upon. Respect peoples views please. Even if you dont agree with the other person respect their right to have a different outlook than you.
I'll be voting yes, but I still think that some folks on the Yes side of things need to grow up and stop being so aggressive. I noticed the same thing around the time of the Marriage referendum not so long ago. Like a liberal mafia going after anyone who dare to vote a different way to them. Have a civilised debate and be open minded, if you put aside your own anger you might actually learn something from someone who doesnt agree with you.

We've tried civilised debate, and while I agree with your sentiment, there has been one side that consistently lies, lies about lying, and their whole argument involves screaming murderer and baby killer at people.

I've asked pro life proponents to give me benefits of keeping the 8th in place, but none have taken me up on it, I'm open to having my mind changed, but they'd rather have blind emotional responses rather than thought and reason.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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