Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

Dohnjoe · 24-04-2018 09:36PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ya right

More argument from incredulity. We've only seen 2 or 3 shots of a plane hitting the Pentagon (pretty grainy, low frame affairs) Perhaps they have better footage of it, perhaps not. They don't have to release it, there is absolutely no need.

Cheerful Spring · 24-04-2018 10:02PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

. They don't have to release it, there is absolutely no need.

mickdw · 24-04-2018 10:07PM

One low grade camera looking somewhat directly at the line of flight or from behind like the photo attached above would have clearly captured the plane.
The only one I've seen is the side on image which shows nothing of the plane.

I believe clear footage exists of the pentagon being hit. I also believe that should such footage be released and show the expected airliner, it would go a long way in putting to bed a lot of questions around the whole event.
I therefore have to ask - why no footage released.

Cheerful Spring · 24-04-2018 10:44PM

I going to tell you to know how it could be possible to rig the Twin Towers to blow. While they could be innocent there is a story that i print surely suggests otherwise. Isreali spies posing as Art Students were given access to empty Rooms above the 90 floor in the North Tower. Coincidentally the same area the North Tower was hit by the first plane.

Here they are pre/911 in the North Tower

UP to 200 young Israelis, some of them former members of military intelligence units, have been arrested in America in the past year, a leaked government report disclosed yesterday.

Some had used cover stories to gain access to sensitive government buildings and the homes of American officials. The report said the actions of some of the Israelis, most of whom had outstayed tourist visas, "may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity".

The leaked report was compiled by the Drug Enforcement Administration after some of its offices were allegedly targeted by Israelis posing as art students. "That these people are now travelling in the US selling art seems not to fit their background," the DEA report said.

Isreali Spy onboard Flight 11 9B seat that hit the first tower. What strange picture this is. The image behind looks like the towers and his wearing a watch called Hijacker and it's on the time 11

24-04-2018 11:13PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

FDR computer simulation data is allegedly Flight 77. I have no evidence it doctored data? The FDR flight 77 Data is showing discrepancies when Flight 77 approached the Pentagon after it finished a 360 U turn.

It has to be one of those three options however.
You are excluding the idea that it's faked or doctored.

So that leaves either it being the real Flight 77, or it's from your imaginary A3.
Which is it?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Am I discussing this with a well-known Skeptic (not on this site) at the moment privately to figure out what could have caused that course change seen on the NTSB footage?

Mm hmm. We believe you. :rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We know the NTSB computer simulation is legitimate though, it came with an FOIA reply Letter.

Lol, why?
Why would it being a FOIA thing prevent the conspirators from stopping it or tampering with it or outright faking it?
How do you know for a fact it's real?

And I take it that now you've ignored the points again, you've conceded that the damage to the pentagon is consistent with a normal 757 crashing into it.

Dohnjoe · 24-04-2018 11:18PM

mickdw wrote: »

it would go a long way in putting to bed a lot of questions around the whole event.

Plenty of footage of 911 has existed since day 1, didn't deter the conspiracy theorists in the slightest

There are "questions" about whether vaccinations work, whether the Sandy Hook shooting was a false flag, whether the Holocaust was a hoax.. the presence of questions doesn't mean much

24-04-2018 11:23PM

mickdw wrote: »

I believe clear footage exists of the pentagon being hit. I also believe that should such footage be released and show the expected airliner, it would go a long way in putting to bed a lot of questions around the whole event.

Not really. We have footage of the planes hitting the twin towers, yet there's accusations of that being faked, the planes being different or having "pods" or that the planes are holograms and the towers were destroyed by space lasers.
If the footage existed and was released and it was clear as day, it wouldn't convince anyone.

mickdw wrote: »

I therefore have to ask - why no footage released.

So what's the conspiracy theory answer?
Why couldn't they set up a few extra cameras to make sure they got the footage?
Why couldn't they have faked the footage beforehand or at any time between then and now?

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 03:33AM

King Mob wrote: »

It has to be one of those three options however.
You are excluding the idea that it's faked or doctored.

So that leaves either it being the real Flight 77, or it's from your imaginary A3.
Which is it?

Mm hmm. We believe you. :rolleyes:

Lol, why?
Why would it being a FOIA thing prevent the conspirators from stopping it or tampering with it or outright faking it?
How do you know for a fact it's real?

And I take it that now you've ignored the points again, you've conceded that the damage to the pentagon is consistent with a normal 757 crashing into it.

It came from NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) I believe it real because it confirms what i believe the Pentagon attack was staged. The Data is available to both camps to review so it not faked or doctored by us meaning Skeptics or Truthers.

Get off your high horse i asked you about dozen or more questions and you've ignored me. I have an answer for you about that wall, but i can not be bothered to discuss this with you any further till we have fair debate.

25-04-2018 04:39AM

Then answer this question. I've only asked it three times.

From what did the FDR come from?
A 757 or an A3?

Both answers leave you with problems, bit we'll take it one step at a time.

TheChizler · 25-04-2018 11:30AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I believe it real because it confirms what i believe the Pentagon attack was staged.

That basically sums up the evidential standard required for pretty much any conspiracy theorist. Isn't it nice to make an honest statement for once?

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 10:31PM

TheChizler wrote: »

That basically sums up the evidential standard required for pretty much any conspiracy theorist. Isn't it nice to make an honest statement for once?

The Flight 77 data was released by a government connected agency? I not sure then why you refuse to listen if you think the official record is accurate? Are you not expecting to see a commercial airliner flying South West of the Navy Annex? What i see is a plane flying North East.

Still talking to my Skeptic friend and he questioned the data now, so he only used this evidence when it suited them. I thought Skeptics said the FDR was evidence a plane crashed at the Pentagon? Now he does not want to acknowledge this could be where the plane actually was on the day? He just wants to ignore that and says a plane on that side can't account for the damage at the Pentagon and knocked down light poles (no **** sherlock)

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 10:43PM

King Mob wrote: »

Then answer this question. I've only asked it three times.

From what did the FDR come from?
A 757 or an A3?

Both answers leave you with problems, bit we'll take it one step at a time.

757-200 plane, what else it came from the NTSB. It doesn't leave me with problems. The data shows a 757 plane approaching the Pentagon, but not where it alleged to be from the 9/11 commission.

mickdw · 25-04-2018 10:45PM

King Mob wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

I believe clear footage exists of the pentagon being hit. I also believe that should such footage be released and show the expected airliner, it would go a long way in putting to bed a lot of questions around the whole event.

Not really. We have footage of the planes hitting the twin towers, yet there's accusations of that being faked, the planes being different or having "pods" or that the planes are holograms and the towers were destroyed by space lasers.
If the footage existed and was released and it was clear as day, it wouldn't convince anyone.

mickdw wrote: »

I therefore have to ask - why no footage released.

So what's the conspiracy theory answer?
Why couldn't they set up a few extra cameras to make sure they got the footage?
Why couldn't they have faked the footage beforehand or at any time between then and now?

Ah come on. Clear footage of a plane hitting would put the issue to rest for all but the more hardcore observers. It's only a small percentage that believe planes didn't hit the towers.
I'm certainly satisfied that airliners went into the towers. I'm not satisfied that an airliner went into the Pentagon.
I don't know anything of the flight data mentioned earlier but would love to see some detail on it.
If there are discrepancies in the data around the time it would be near the pentagon, well it only adds fuel to the conspiracy.

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 10:58PM

mickdw wrote: »

If there are discrepancies in the data around the time it would be near the pentagon, well it only adds fuel to the conspiracy.

This is NTSB computer simulation of the flight from takeoff at the airport to its final destination.

There are two errors in the data that don't line up with the 9/11 commission findings

This the plane northeast of the Navy Annex. The plane should be on the opposite side to strike 5 light poles.

Plane too high in altitude 180 feet here just 1 to 2 seconds before striking the Pentagon

25-04-2018 11:05PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

757-200 plane, what else it came from the NTSB. It doesn't leave me with problems. The data shows a 757 plane approaching the Pentagon, but not where it alleged to be from the 9/11 commission.

Ok, so it's not a A3 Skyhunter like you claimed earlier.
And a 757 did crash into the Pentagon.

I'm a bit confused on your position now. Have you changed your mind at some point?

25-04-2018 11:07PM

mickdw wrote: »

I'm certainly satisfied that airliners went into the towers. I'm not satisfied that an airliner went into the Pentagon.

Again, leaving aside the mountain of evidence you have to ignore that indicates that it was a 757, including the FDR we are talking about...

Why would they use a different plane than a 757?

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 11:14PM

King Mob wrote: »

Ok, so it's not a A3 Skyhunter like you claimed earlier.
And a 757 did crash into the Pentagon.

I'm a bit confused on your position now. Have you changed your mind at some point?

The flight data is showing a 757 but it does not show it crashed at the spot ( 9/11 commission said it did) the simulation ends two seconds before the crash. At that altitude 180 feet it flew over the Pentagon and kept going or it crashed at the very top edge of the Pentagon? There no way the plane at 180 feet can drop to 30 feet in two seconds. And data shows no 757 was on a path to knock down five light poles. Two of the light poles are located near the bridge on the highway. So NTSB data for me back up Lloyd England off-camera comment he was involved in a planned event.

25-04-2018 11:19PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The flight data is showing a 757 but it does not show it crashed at the spot ( 9/11 commission said it did) the simulation ends two seconds before the crash. At that alitude 180 feet it flew over the Pentagon and kept going or it crashed at the very top edge of the Pentagon? There no way the plane at 180 feet can drop to 30 feet in two seconds. And data shows no 757 was on a path to knock down five light poles. Two of the lightpoles are located near the bridge on the highway. So NTSB data for me backs up Lloyd England off camera comment he was involved in a planned event.

So there was two planes?
So where did they get the FDR from if the plane didn't crash? Why would the NTSB not mention the fact the plan didn't crash?

What happened to the rest of the data when the plane flew away? Remember, you claimed it was impossible for it to be altered or manipulated. So by your claim, there should be a long stretch of data after the plane missed the Pentagon. What happened to that?

And again, why would they hand the data over?

You also never explained why they would involve a random taxi driver. Look at that, you've dodged so many questions we came all the way around again!

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 11:28PM

King Mob wrote: »

So there was two planes?
So where did they get the FDR from if the plane didn't crash?
Why would they hand it over?

You also never explained why they would involve a random taxi driver. Look at that, you've dodged so many questions we came all the way around again?

Just for argument the 757 crashed into the Pentagon and did not go inside it exploded outside the building?

The problem, right now is the The flight Data is showing a different approach of flight to the Pentagon. The plane going North East is avoiding 5 lightpoles altogether was the plane a second event? Did a explosion inside the building occur before the plane arrived?

Well we don't know if he is just a random taxi driver. Off camera he said he we came across the highway together? Investigator asked was this planned, he said it was planned? If he was just caught up in an event it just happened. Why when asked would he say it was planned?

Dohnjoe · 25-04-2018 11:31PM

The details of the flight data recorder (and misinterpretation of that data) are, as mentioned, detailed here

For the lazy, 90% of it is covered on the first page

To repeat, conspiracy theorists commonly believe that finding one mistake, one data error, one missing piece of data, one anomaly, one witness saying something strange.. anything at all, no matter how tiny and ultimately insignificant proves the entire thing is an unspecified "inside job" regardless of all the other evidence

They approach a situation backwards. It's a conspiracy and anything that can't be 100% explained to them personally means it's a conspiracy

Rational people do not approach an investigation in this manner. They also realise that not every tiny detail can be accounted for or explained post-fact. They understand that the weight of evidence, the fact that evidence corroborates and correlates with other evidence and the consensus of experts is part of the process of building the true picture. Not working backwards from a "conspiracy" every time.

25-04-2018 11:33PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Just for argument the 757 crashed into the Pentagon and did not go inside it exploded outside the building?

The problem, right now is the The flight Data is showing a different approach of flight to the Pentagon. The plane going North East is avoiding 5 lightpoles altogether was the plane a second event? Did a explosion inside the building occur before the plane arrived?

See, you've dodged the question again.

Why does the FDR not show the 757 flying away from the Pentagon afterwards?
Remember, it can't be because the government manipulated or edited it according to you.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Well we don't know if he is just a random taxi driver. Off camera he said he we came across the highway together? Investigator asked was this planned, he said it was planned? If he was just caught up in an event it just happened. Why when asked would he say it was planned?

Again, what's the conspiracy answer?
Why would they bother to get him involved?

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 11:40PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The details of the flight data recorder (and misinterpretation of that data) are, as mentioned, detailed here

For the lazy, 90% of it is covered on the first page

To repeat, conspiracy theorists commonly believe that finding one mistake, one data error, one missing piece of data, one anomaly, one witness saying something strange.. anything at all, no matter how tiny and ultimately insignificant proves the entire thing is an unspecified "inside job" regardless of all the other evidence

They approach a situation backwards. It's a conspiracy and anything that can't be 100% explained to them personally means it's a conspiracy

Rational people do not approach an investigation in this manner. They also realise that not every tiny detail can be accounted for or explained post-fact. They understand that the weight of evidence, the fact that evidence corroborates and correlates with other evidence and the consensus of experts is part of the process of building the true picture. Not working backwards from a "conspiracy" every time.

I read the first guy post he does not explain why the plane was positioned NE at 70 degrees magnetic on final approach. He showed no evidence the data was not accurate, no sourcing or any reply by the NTSB to confirm his statements. If there information in the link that talks about this do post I willing to read. The thread 109 pages.

Cheerful Spring · 25-04-2018 11:51PM

King Mob wrote: »

See, you've dodged the question again.

Why does the FDR not show the 757 flying away from the Pentagon afterwards?
Remember, it can't be because the government manipulated or edited it according to you.

Again, what's the conspiracy answer?
Why would they bother to get him involved?

The stimulation ends two seconds before the crash, not sure why. Guessing here could be missing data or the data could not be retrieved I don't know?

Only Lloyd England and people involved can tell you that. There is a picture of Lloyd England on the bridge with two men in white shirts who they are I don't know? Strange thing is Lloyd England said there was a guy living down the street from him on the bridge who took those famous photographs of his taxi and the light pole. Strange coincidence a neighbour would be at the spot to record this event or his involved in this pre-planned event?

25-04-2018 11:55PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The stimulation ends two seconds before the crash, not sure why. Guessing here could be missing data or the data could not be retrieved I don't know?

So the data just ends right before the crash and before the plane flew away.
Why would that happen entirely at random and all by itself?
That was a stroke of luck for the conspirators...

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Only Lloyd England and people involved can tell you that.

So you have no answer and you can't make sense of the conspiracy explanation. Wish it didn't take so long for you to admit that...

Cheerful Spring · 26-04-2018 12:00AM

King Mob wrote: »

So the data just ends right before the crash and before the plane flew away.
Why would that happen entirely at random and all by itself?
That was a stroke of luck for the conspirators...

So you have no answer and you can't make sense of the conspiracy explanation. Wish it didn't take so long for you to admit that...

Yes, the simulation ends roughly about 2 seconds before the crash. Yes, I agree it strange the simulation just ends abruptly like that. Plane was 180 feet in the air when the simulation stopped. At that altitude the plane was too high it could have gone over the building or hit clipped the building on the 5 floor?

Flight data is proof of a conspiracy yes

26-04-2018 12:05AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes the simulation ends roughly about 2 seconds before the crash. Yes i agree it strange the simulation just ends abruptly like that...

So why does it end?
Where did the data go?
Was it cut out by the conspirators?
It can't be cause that would be editing, which you declared was impossible.
Did it just randomly stop there by sheer luck and coincidence?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Flight data is proof of a conspiracy yes

if this was so, why release it?

Cheerful Spring · 26-04-2018 12:08AM

King Mob wrote: »

So why does it end?
Where did the data go?
Was it cut out by the conspirators?
It can't be cause that would be editing, which you declared was impossible.
Did it just randomly stop there by sheer luck and coincidence?
if this was so, why release it?

1: You need to ask NTSB why.

2: I don't know it missing from CSV file that had the FDR data.

3: Don't know

26-04-2018 12:12AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

King Mob wrote: »

So why does it end?
Where did the data go?
Was it cut out by the conspirators?
It can't be cause that would be editing, which you declared was impossible.
Did it just randomly stop there by sheer luck and coincidence?
if this was so, why release it?

1: You need to ask NTSB why.

2: I don't know it missing from CSV file that had the FDR data.

3: Don't know

Wow, honest answers for once.

So of you can't explain why they would release it, and you can't explain why the data suddenly ends for no reason, and you can't even explain the original point of your thread...

Maybe you're wrong about some stuff...?

Cheerful Spring · 26-04-2018 12:19AM

King Mob wrote: »

Wow, honest answers for once.

So of you can't explain why they would release it, and you can't explain why the data suddenly ends for no reason, and you can't even explain the original point of your thread...

Maybe you're wrong about some stuff...?

Well nobody seems to be able to answer me why the plane was NE passing the Navy Annex and not South West passing the Navy Annex. It should not be a difficult question to answer if the Skeptics are confident the plane true course was SW?

Why was the plane 180 feet in the air 2 seconds before impact?

Why the data ended suddenly we can guess at. The data could not be retrieved, damage to the data at the end, the plane crashed? I don't know I can only work with the evidence given to us.

26-04-2018 12:32AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Well nobody seems to be able to answer me why the plane was NE passing the Navy Annex and not South West passing the Navy Annex. It should not be a difficult question to answer if the Skeptics are confident the plane true course was SW?

Why was the plane 180 feet in the air 2 seconds before impact?

Dohnjoe's link does a good job of explaining this.

But again, it's not really nessesary to address when the conspiracy doesn't explain it and the conspiracy doesn't make sense.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why the data ended suddenly we can guess at. The data could not be retrieved, damage to the data at the end, the plane crashed? I don't know I can only work with the evidence given to us.

Why would the plane suddenly crash for no reason? Why did it crash and how did no one notice.
Why would the data go missing from exactly the point of where it would have crashed into the Pentagon and have no other data at all from any other point after. Why was none of the data before that point corrupted?
If the data was damaged to the point where a huge chunk of it is missing, why would you assume that the rest of the data is perfectly accurate.

Very suddenly the conspiracy seems to be relying on a lot of strange and lucky coincidences.

Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

Comments