Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 05:34PM

mfceiling wrote: »

I wouldn't go as far to talk about "the calibre" of Carberry or Byrne. 2 young lads with plenty of promise but neither of them has been a first choice 10 for Leinster going into crucial ERCC or league games.
If they had been first choice 10's for 2 or 3 seasons then yeah but we're talking about their "potential" at the moment.

Especially not on an Ulster thread.

I'll get me hat...

Squidgy Black · 24-04-2018 06:18PM

Rugbypass are reporting that Olding is close to signing with Sale Sharks

Bridge93 · 24-04-2018 06:40PM

Both the lads are linked very closely with Sale

24-04-2018 06:54PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

Both the lads are linked very closely with Sale

Don't Sale already have AJ McGinty and James O'Connor?

Locke_Lamora · 24-04-2018 07:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bridge93 wrote: »

Both the lads are linked very closely with Sale

Don't Sale already have AJ McGinty and James O'Connor?

McGinty's been playing well for them, the fans love him, and he's just signed another 3-year contract I think. O'Connor's been plagued injury since Toulon and it was never fully corrected. He put up a recent status saying that the club and him have sat down and to make a proper recovery programme, because he was basically only able to keep playing due to a combination of painkillers and less training. I don't think 10 is his best position anyway tbh, he's much more effective out wide.

Sinbad_NI · 24-04-2018 07:29PM

I wonder if neither of the 2 Leinster 10s can be talked into it how far will the irfu go... Refuse to renew their contract for example.

Case of carrot and stick, if we need the stick then personally I'd not be impressed to see them tog out for us.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 07:30PM

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

I wonder if neither of the 2 Leinster 10s can be talked into it how far will the irfu go... Refuse to renew their contract for example.

Case of carrot and stick, if we need the stick then personally I'd not be impressed to see them together out for us.

Ah here! You're not going to get both of them. That's just greedy.

Sinbad_NI · 24-04-2018 07:32PM

Oops. Corrected.

irishfan9 · 24-04-2018 07:37PM

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

I wonder if neither of the 2 Leinster 10s can be talked into it how far will the irfu go... Refuse to renew their contract for example.

Case of carrot and stick, if we need the stick then personally I'd not be impressed to see them tog out for us.

irfu would just be punishing themselves.. they are hardly gonna send carbery to englans because he wont play for ulster

MJohnston · 24-04-2018 07:42PM

Seems there's some historical revisionism going on here - yes we may only have lost as many games this season as Munster, but have you all forgotten how many of those wins we were describing as papering over the cracks at the time? And how many of them were unconvincing and fluked?

awec · 24-04-2018 07:45PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Seems there's some historical revisionism going on here - yes we may only have lost as many games this season as Munster, but have you all forgotten how many of those wins we were describing as papering over the cracks at the time? And how many of them were unconvincing and fluked?

Yea.

In the earlyish part of the season we fell over the line quite a few times and got a win where one was not deserved. If truth be told our mid-to-late season woes were pretty well signposted by the team early in the season.

It has absolutely been a disaster of a season and one to forget.

MJohnston · 24-04-2018 07:49PM

Exactly - when form fell off a cliff absolutely nobody was surprised by it, because it was so presaged by the earlier performances.

irishbucsfan · 24-04-2018 07:50PM

presaged

MJohnston · 24-04-2018 08:00PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

presaged

It's a perfectly cromulent word

bilston · 24-04-2018 08:50PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Seems there's some historical revisionism going on here - yes we may only have lost as many games this season as Munster, but have you all forgotten how many of those wins we were describing as papering over the cracks at the time? And how many of them were unconvincing and fluked?

How many times have Munster just fallen over the line?

Or any team for that matter?

Of course it's been a poor season. But I'm just saying that it could have been worse, and personally I believe we have hot rock bottom and we are now trying to slowly start climbing that ladder again.

MJohnston · 24-04-2018 09:21PM

bilston wrote: »

How many times have Munster just fallen over the line?

Or any team for that matter?

Of course it's been a poor season. But I'm just saying that it could have been worse, and personally I believe we have hot rock bottom and we are now trying to slowly start climbing that ladder again.

I think we'll still be scraping our arses along that rock bottom for a while yet, certainly until we have an actual coaching team in place. To my eyes, the team is succeeding on emotion right now, but that can't last.

Locke_Lamora · 24-04-2018 09:36PM

About the Carbery/Byrne situation - can anyone confirm if they can directly or indirectly be forced to move up here? I would absolutely love either of them up here, but I would hate for a young lad to have to uproot his life and play for a team he wasn't fully committed to. Both of them are doing well for Leinster (and Ireland in Carbery's case).

Former Former · 24-04-2018 09:48PM

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

About the Carbery/Byrne situation - can anyone confirm if they can directly or indirectly be forced to move up here? I would absolutely love either of them up here, but I would hate for a young lad to have to uproot his life and play for a team he wasn't fully committed to. Both of them are doing well for Leinster (and Ireland in Carbery's case).

Depends entirely on what you mean by "forced"

Obviously no one can be made to go anywhere.

But IRFU could easily say, there's only a contract for one of them in Leinster, if the other wants to play in Ireland it has to be in Ulster.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 09:52PM

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

About the Carbery/Byrne situation - can anyone confirm if they can directly or indirectly be forced to move up here? I would absolutely love either of them up here, but I would hate for a young lad to have to uproot his life and play for a team he wasn't fully committed to. Both of them are doing well for Leinster (and Ireland in Carbery's case).

No. They have to want to move. But that could just be a matter of contract terms.

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:03PM

Former Former wrote: »

Depends entirely on what you mean by "forced"

Obviously no one can be made to go anywhere.

But IRFU could easily say, there's only a contract for one of them in Leinster, if the other wants to play in Ireland it has to be in Ulster.

Are either out of contract at the end of the season?

I would have thought the IRFU would be pretty powerless mid contract.

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:06PM

MJohnston wrote: »

I think we'll still be scraping our arses along that rock bottom for a while yet, certainly until we have an actual coaching team in place. To my eyes, the team is succeeding on emotion right now, but that can't last.

Yeah, but there will be a coaching team in place next season, so that's when we will start to see improvements.

Get a decent coaching team, an out half and a full season out of Coetzee and I think we will see progress next year.

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:07PM

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

About the Carbery/Byrne situation - can anyone confirm if they can directly or indirectly be forced to move up here? I would absolutely love either of them up here, but I would hate for a young lad to have to uproot his life and play for a team he wasn't fully committed to. Both of them are doing well for Leinster (and Ireland in Carbery's case).

If they came they would be committed. I think the issue is getting them to leave Leinster rather than joining Ulster.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 10:09PM

bilston wrote: »

Are either out of contract at the end of the season?

I would have thought the IRFU would be pretty powerless mid contract.

The Times report said they were in the middle of their contracts. I'm not sure if that's correct; they signed their first senior contracts at the same time: January 2017. That would make them unusually long first contracts imo.

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:09PM

Talking of contracts, how committed to Italy is Conor O'Shea. That man right there is the guy we need to kick us into shape, although he'd need a strong coaching team. It would also probably mean removing Bryn.

bilston · 24-04-2018 10:11PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

The Times report said they were in the middle of their contracts. I'm not sure if that's correct; they signed their first senior contracts at the same time: January 2017. That would make them unusually long first contracts imo.

They would probably be 2 year contracts starting in July 2017, or 2 1/2 year contracts starting in Jan '17. So I'd guess they would have a year to run.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 10:16PM

bilston wrote: »

Talking of contracts, how committed to Italy is Conor O'Shea. That man right there is the guy we need to kick us into shape, although he'd need a strong coaching team. It would also probably mean removing Bryn.

I would say very. He's not just coaching the national squad, he's working on the whole structure there. I'd say he's got pretty much the Irish model in mind. He's doing a very good job, doubt he wants a move.

prawnsambo · 24-04-2018 10:18PM

bilston wrote: »

They would probably be 2 year contracts starting in July 2017, or 2 1/2 year contracts starting in Jan '17. So I'd guess they would have a year to run.

It probably doesn't matter too much. A new contract can be offered while the old one is still running. It's the same contractor after all.

stl.ire · 24-04-2018 11:00PM

bilston wrote: »

Yeah, but there will be a coaching team in place next season, so that's when we will start to see improvements.

Get a decent coaching team, an out half and a full season out of Coetzee and I think we will see progress next year.

This is true.

Ulster are a long way from putting together a season like Leinster’s current one but they are not as far away as some would suggest from having a season like Munster’s current one.

There is a lot of young talent coming through and with some key additions and a good head coach Ulster’s problems are very fixable. The issue of course will be if the underlying backroom and board level problems will continue to undermine everything.

Squidgy Black · 25-04-2018 06:25AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

It probably doesn't matter too much. A new contract can be offered while the old one is still running. It's the same contractor after all.

That's true, but I think this goes against the narrative that some peow think where the IRFU are going to twist their arm and say there isn't a contract available for them in Leinster and only Ulster.

cantwbr1 · 25-04-2018 06:37AM

If Ulster are interested in either player they need to be selling the job to their preferred player rather than waiting for the IRFU to make it happen.
We must presume that this is happening behind the scenes but without a head coach would be incredibly difficult. Can Logan sell a vision of where Ulster are going on the pitch or style of play without a coach to back him up? I don’t think so.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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