Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

I suppose the issue is that most Ulster fans assume a player who is sent to Ulster rather than excited to go won't be our 10 for the next decade. If it's Carbery, he'll improve, stay a couple of seasons and then go back to Leinster, leaving us in much the same home in two years time.

Anyway, it's not about what Ulster, Leinster,Carbery or Byrne wants. It's about depth at 10 for the RWC. All other priorities rescinded.

sydthebeat wrote: »

I can't see how it could be Ross.
How could Leinster go into international camp weeks with cathal Marsh and ciaran frawley as their squad 10s?

And that's assuming no injures

That's exactly the situation it was two seasons ago when it was Ross Byrne and Cathal Marsh. Ross Byrne had pretty much the same game time the previous season as Frawley has this season.

I know the thinking is to keep the guy who's less likely to be away playing for Ireland, but that's short term thinking with Sexton in his last few seasons. A career ending injury to Jonny in the next year or so, would leave Leinster with Ross Byrne and Ciaran Frawley plus the academy guys. I know that's a pessimistic view, but that's the way Leinster have to prepare.

sydthebeat wrote: »

I can't see how it could be Ross.
How could Leinster go into international camp weeks with cathal Marsh and ciaran frawley as their squad 10s?

And that's assuming no injures

We would've said the same thing in 2016 when it was Ross Byrne in place of Frawley in fairness.

awec wrote: »

I don’t see either Byrne or Carbery wanting to go (Carbery has pretty much dismissed the idea publicly before), and aside from anything else a player who doesn’t really want to be there is not what we need.

It's an easy enough sell I think. Ross Byrne is on the outs from the Leinster first choice 23. He could go to Ulster, become first choice playing week in week out and put himself in the frame for Ireland and RWC 2019.

If Munster could make it work money wise I would take Byrne in a heartbeat.

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's an easy enough sell I think. Ross Byrne is on the outs from the Leinster first choice 23. He could go to Ulster, become first choice playing week in week out and put himself in the frame for Ireland and RWC 2019.

Exactly. I'd imagine the case for them can be made very easily. I reckon it would be easier to convince Byrne. Guaranteed starter at this point, a huge opportunity to go to the RWC and a nice bump in salary.

Whilst Leinster might rather Carbery to go due to availability during international windows, the carrot of test rugby doesn't apply to him given he already has that.

awec wrote: »

Go all out, keep the momentum.

I would agree, we need to go for it & at long last we finally have some momentum.

I read somewhere that if either Leinster win the Champions Cup or Cardiff win the Challenge Cup, then there will be no need for a PRO14 Euro Playoff anyhow (both Ulster & Ospreys automatically qualify?). Either is fairly likely to happen I would have thought, just surprised no-one is picking-up on this?

From reading the qualification rules below, Leinster, Racing 92 & Cardiff have all already qualified for the Champions Cup & Gloucester are about to(?). But if that is the case then surely a Pau v Newcastle Falcons play-off (losing Challenge Cup semi-finalists) would take prioirity over the Ulster/Ospreys? Unless I have it wrong....

Qualification
Champions Cup

Nineteen clubs will qualify automatically for the 2018/19 Champions Cup in the following ways :.
• Guinness PRO14 (7): The three highest ranked clubs from each conference. The fourth-ranked clubs from each conference will play off for the seventh place. (NB South African clubs are not eligible.)
• TOP 14 (6): The six highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.
• Aviva Premiership (6): The six highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.
In accordance with a decision of the EPCR Board comprising the nine unions, federations and league bodies, the 20th place in the Champions Cup will be determined as follows:
i) Champions Cup winner, if not already qualified
ii) Challenge Cup winner, if not already qualified
iii) Challenge Cup losing finalist, if not already qualified
iv) Play-off match between the losing Challenge Cup semi-finalists, if not already qualified
v) Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Champions Cup winner

errlloyd wrote: »

You're correct, but Newcastle and Pau are also pretty close to qualifying. Newcastle in 4th and Pau in 7th of their respective leagues. Now I think the final games will be too tough for Pau, but there is a chance.

Ah I see that now, Newcastle have already qualified & Pau (didn't know they are called Section Paloise) are currently 7th in the Top 14. Still, if Pau do qualify it's another permutation whereby a PRO 14 Euro playoff doesn't happen.

It all got a bit confusing on Sat night what with Tommy Bowe, Paul Marshall & Charles Piutau all playing their "last ever" matches at Ravenhill & waving goodbye.... unless there's a PRO 14 Euro playoff v Ospreys!!

Then Tony McWhirter was saying that Ulster are guaranteed European Cup rugby next season Challenge Cup maybe......

Former Former wrote: »

Basically, the Ulster v Ospreys playoff might be redundant as both will qualify by other means, but we won't know than until after it's happened so it has to be treated as though it does matter.

But it might still have to happen! As I said in different thread, the play off is between Ospreys (9th ranked club in pro14) and Ulster (7th ranked club in pro14), but Benneton (8th ranked club in pro14) are actually ahead of Ospreys in terms of the European qualifying criteria.

So Ulster and Ospreys may have to play a game, if Ospreys win it both teams qualify, but if Ospreys lose, Ulster and Benneton qualify.

It is also very very confusing.

molloyjh wrote: »

Isn't league position for Europe based first on the final standing of the conferences minus the SA teams, which means Ospreys are 4th?

That's the Pro14 rule alright, but it may not be the EPCR rule. It would be awful harsh on Bennetton if they came 5th in their conference, Ospreys also came 5th in their conference, but Bennetton had more wins and more points, but Ospreys qualified ahead of them?

That would be ridiculous.

errlloyd wrote: »

That's the Pro14 rule alright, but it may not be the EPCR rule. It would be awful harsh on Bennetton if they came 5th in their conference, Ospreys also came 5th in their conference, but Bennetton had more wins and more points, but Ospreys qualified ahead of them?

That would be ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than if Ospreys qualify having beaten Ulster in the as-is scenario. By your logic (which I totally understand) the play-off should be between Ulster and Benetton. But that's not the way it's structured, so I'd imagine there is no way for Benetton to qualify now.

What ages were the two Leinster 10's when they got their senior debuts?

So Angus Curtis and McPhillips, Lowry, Huston etc should be given a fair chance. McPhillips hasn't let anyone down yet.

These lads should be given time.

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Our half backs should be given the same opportunity before boys are parachuted in.

I think it's a bit unfair to characterise this as them being parachuted in. It doesn't seem to be at their behest and the IRFU are unlikely to be driving it on their own bat. Ulster have to be looking for it too.