Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

durthacht · 22-04-2018 01:09PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

What if neither wants to leave? It makes no sense. Forcing a move might hamper their development.
If that were the case, I bet the salary would have to be significantly raised. Byrne is on a development contract. Hard to believe he would move unless the finances were drastically improved.
Carberry is on a full contract, I think?

No both Byrne and Carbery are on full contracts: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/0227/855743-carbery-and-byrne-among-7/

bilston · 22-04-2018 01:10PM

Buer wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

That's not what Ulster need. We have our own up and coming 10s like McPhillips, Michael Lowry, Angus Curtis and Bruce Houston. We need someone who is good enough to play in the Champions Cup (if we are in it) next October.

Edit - to be fair that could be Johnny McPhillips.

I didn't mean that Ulster should look at Hawkshaw or Harry Byrne but that if Ross Byrne or Carbery went north, those lads will be coming through at Leinster and Carbery/RB wouldn't have the option of returning. Just highlighting that a move wouldn't be Ulster developing Carbery or Byrne for Leinster. I'd imagine once gone they'd stay gone.

Ah get you now...my bad.

bilston · 22-04-2018 01:15PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

What if neither wants to leave? It makes no sense. Forcing a move might hamper their development.
If that were the case, I bet the salary would have to be significantly raised. Byrne is on a development contract. Hard to believe he would move unless the finances were drastically improved.
Carberry is on a full contract, I think?

I wouldn't have thought they could force them to move. That's why I think if it was sold to Carbery as a one year deal (almost a loan) then if he looked at the bigger picture he might see it as a good thing. But then a lot can happen in 12 months.

The experiences of the lads from down south who do actually make the jump North suggests the place isn't half as bad as some would have you believe down Mexico way!!

launish116 · 22-04-2018 01:17PM

Can't force someone to move, but sure you can only offer them the opportunity to stay in Ireland in the North?
Stupid question? but if Carbery did come north. Would he be a 10 or 15 if we still had Mcphilips?

prawnsambo · 22-04-2018 01:19PM

launish116 wrote: »

Can't force someone to move, but sure you can only offer them the opportunity to stay in Ireland in the North?
Stupid question? but if Carbery did come north. Would he be a 10 or 15 if we still had Mcphilips?

If Carbery was to move it would be as a 10. He'd hardly move to play in a position he only took on to fill in for injuries.

Edit: It wouldn't make sense from an Ireland pov either. He's a 10 for Ireland predominantly.

irishbucsfan · 22-04-2018 01:26PM

The only way this doesn't make sense for Irish rugby is if Ulster have the opportunity to sign someone better than Carberry for next season.

Locke_Lamora · 22-04-2018 01:38PM

I'd actually find it hilarious if Nucifora forced Carbery north to help Irish rugby...only for us to keep keep playing him at fullback. Who is our main fullback next year anyway? Stockdale's been incredible on the wing so I'd rather keep him there. Gilroy maybe?

launish116 · 22-04-2018 01:42PM

Say we do get Carberry and still have McPhilips. Ulster fall into the situation were we give Carberry game time for the sake of Ireland at the expense of McPhilps, Lowry etc.
With Jackson in exile you can see the worry on Ireland's managements with RWC coming up and their backup out half not getting as much game time in Leinster.

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

I'd actually find it hilarious if Nucifora forced Carbery north to help Irish rugby...only for us to keep keep playing him at fullback. Who is our main fullback next year anyway? Stockdale's been incredible on the wing so I'd rather keep him there. Gilroy maybe?

It's hilarious! but look at Ulster's history of playing players out of position lol. With no natural 15 next season, Carberry has excelled there and if McPhilips stays it could be the best use of resources.
Would prefer to McPhilips/Lowry get exposure and had a oldhand to guide and mentor them.

ClanofLams · 22-04-2018 01:55PM

Suspect Ulster will get Byrne and I’d be happy with that if I was an Ulster fan. Byrne is the better 10 right now although I think Carbery could surpass him with game time, only a could though.

Hands Like Flippers · 22-04-2018 01:58PM

I am not keen on us taking Leinster 2nds at the expense of our own Academy. Of course it will happen and does but I would prefer for us to rebuild with our youth.

There is definitely plenty of talent in our schools system.

Ruan was seen off as UR weren't developing. What is the point of bringing Leinster players up as that will only keep the UR youth down as well.

Ok it is all about Irish Rugby for some but some of the rest of us would still like UR to rebuild using kids who grew up dreaming of playing for Ulster. Less likely to move to greener fields for one thing.

Dubinusa · 22-04-2018 03:30PM

Thought Nelson and Ludik were full backs?
Wonder if Ulster would give Rock a shout at a contract. With Marshall retiring, they look light.
I rate Stewart, he's gonna be a good one.

launish116 · 22-04-2018 03:41PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

Thought Nelson and Ludik were full backs?
Wonder if Ulster would give Rock a shout at a contract. With Marshall retiring, they look light.
I rate Stewart, he's gonna be a good one.

Nelson is a fullback. Could end up with Ludik/Gilroy there aswell.
Marshall gone, rumour shanahan is on the out also. Definitely looking light, can't have Cooney turning into Pienarr and required to play every game. Cooney must of clocked up some game time this season.
Also reports Deysel has done his ACL and I think commentators said during match Rea was on crutches.

stl.ire · 22-04-2018 03:54PM

launish116 wrote: »

Nelson is a fullback. Could end up with Ludik/Gilroy there aswell.
Marshall gone, rumour shanahan is on the out also. Definitely looking light, can't have Cooney turning into Pienarr and required to play every game. Cooney must of clocked up some game time this season.
Also reports Deysel has done his ACL and I think commentators said during match Rea was on crutches.

Rea is done for the season. He got injured in the Ospreys match.
There are some good academy 9s like Stewart who are worth a look over Shanahan even if he stays.
I think new signing Will Addison will get some time at 15. He plays across the backline like Ludik but always looked decent at 15 and is a great kicker.

Hands Like Flippers · 22-04-2018 04:03PM

Who is Rock?

Who is Stewart?

Dubinusa · 22-04-2018 04:21PM

Rock is in the zleinster academy. Stewart is u20 and in the Ulster academy.

Hands Like Flippers · 22-04-2018 04:53PM

Jonny Stewart?

bilston · 22-04-2018 05:21PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

I rate Stewart, he's gonna be a good one.

He has a fair bit to go to be honest. But he is worth investing in...partly because there is no one else!!

damianmcr · 22-04-2018 05:27PM

Im not sure Rea is out for next week just yet.

Hands Like Flippers · 22-04-2018 08:11PM

bilston wrote: »

Dubinusa wrote: »

I rate Stewart, he's gonna be a good one.

He has a fair bit to go to be honest. But he is worth investing in...partly because there is no one else!!

Again, couple of good ones coming through school e.g. SH for u18 Irish Schools even though u17.

stl.ire · 22-04-2018 11:33PM

Let’s be clear, if Carberry or Byrne move north it is not some hand out to Ulster. It will be entirely the IRFU’s doing and with Ireland’s benefit in mind not Ulsters (even if Ulster are better off as a result).

Ulster need a 10, but they actually need an experienced old head to help guide young guys they already have for 2 seasons max. They don’t need another development 10 (albeit Carberry and Byrne are more developed than anyone at Ulster currently) and they really don’t need a stopgap loaned 10.

I can understand certain Leinster fans (not so much on here thankfully) being upset at potentially losing a player but I’m sick of hearing how Ulster are to blame. If they want to help Ulster then the IRFU need to allow Ulster to open the checkbook to replace Jackson not use Jackson’s exit to shoehorn a WC hopeful into a white shirt.

ClanofLams · 22-04-2018 11:43PM

stl.ire wrote: »

Let’s be clear, if Carberry or Byrne move north it is not some hand out to Ulster. It will be entirely the IRFU’s doing and with Ireland’s benefit in mind not Ulsters (even if Ulster are better off as a result).

Ulster need a 10, but they actually need an experienced old head to help guide young guys they already have for 2 seasons max. They don’t need another development 10 (albeit Carberry and Byrne are more developed than anyone at Ulster currently) and they really don’t need a stopgap loaned 10.

I can understand certain Leinster fans (not so much on here thankfully) being upset at potentially losing a player but I’m sick of hearing how Ulster are to blame. If they want to help Ulster then the IRFU need to allow Ulster to open the checkbook to replace Jackson not use Jackson’s exit to shoehorn a WC hopeful into a white shirt.

Even if the IRFU opened the chequebook, who are Ulster going to get better than Byrne/Carbery? Would think the vast majority of those players are sorted for next season.

I agree it shouldn’t be a loan, a two year contract would be best. If it is that, there is every chance the player might stay long term in Ulster. They might be annoyed at Leinster electing to let them go (if it is the case that Leinster have the option of the two), settled in Belfast,etc.

Don’t understand Ulster supporters being upset at this development personally.

Neil3030 · 23-04-2018 02:04AM

If Carbery is seen as Ireland's #2, he should be the one to go.

stl.ire · 23-04-2018 02:20AM

ClanofLams wrote: »

Even if the IRFU opened the chequebook, who are Ulster going to get better than Byrne/Carbery? Would think the vast majority of those players are sorted for next season.

I agree it shouldn’t be a loan, a two year contract would be best. If it is that, there is every chance the player might stay long term in Ulster. They might be annoyed at Leinster electing to let them go (if it is the case that Leinster have the option of the two), settled in Belfast,etc.

Don’t understand Ulster supporters being upset at this development personally.

No Ulster fan will be upset if Ulster improve. What I was referencing was the idea some are putting about that this would be “another” handout to Ulster.

A loan is what Carberry was supposedly offered which is why I mentioned it. If he or Byrne leave for too long your right in saying they probably won’t be back but that’s more to do with the talent coming up at Leinster (Frawley etc).

As for who Ulster could get that’s better than the Leinster lads? First they have Piutau money. Second that wasn’t my point. They don’t need an unbelievable 10 they need a mentor for their academy guys. They need a stable hand for the next few years as they rebuild not some Beauden Barrett who would be wasted until the rest of the team was sorted.

Dave_The_Sheep · 23-04-2018 02:52AM

stl.ire wrote: »

As for who Ulster could get that’s better than the Leinster lads? First they have Piutau money. Second that wasn’t my point. They don’t need an unbelievable 10 they need a mentor for their academy guys. They need a stable hand for the next few years as they rebuild not some Beauden Barrett who would be wasted until the rest of the team was sorted.

And who would that be?

If you don't want to be seen taking handouts, as you say, who would you prefer? Because I'm sure Leinster would prefer that too, given they would get to keep Carbery and Byrne.

bilston · 23-04-2018 06:38AM

stl.ire wrote: »

Let’s be clear, if Carberry or Byrne move north it is not some hand out to Ulster. It will be entirely the IRFU’s doing and with Ireland’s benefit in mind not Ulsters (even if Ulster are better off as a result).

Ulster need a 10, but they actually need an experienced old head to help guide young guys they already have for 2 seasons max. They don’t need another development 10 (albeit Carberry and Byrne are more developed than anyone at Ulster currently) and they really don’t need a stopgap loaned 10.

I can understand certain Leinster fans (not so much on here thankfully) being upset at potentially losing a player but I’m sick of hearing how Ulster are to blame. If they want to help Ulster then the IRFU need to allow Ulster to open the checkbook to replace Jackson not use Jackson’s exit to shoehorn a WC hopeful into a white shirt.

Who are we going to sign a year out from the WC?

Personally I'd be happy with Carbery. I think at the moment some of my fellow Ulster fans would dismiss anything the IRFU offered just because it was the IRFU offering it.

sydthebeat · 23-04-2018 06:57AM

Someone like peter grant would suffice for a couple of seasons.

Its a pity the decision wasn't made when Duncan weir was still available.

prawnsambo · 23-04-2018 07:04AM

Neil3030 wrote: »

If Carbery is seen as Ireland's #2, he should be the one to go.

That sounds like it makes sense, but the opposite could also be true. Being at Leinster, he can understudy Sexton every day at training. He'd have no mentor at Ulster. Sexton mentioned the other day how impirtant Dr. Phil was to his development.

irishbucsfan · 23-04-2018 07:10AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

That sounds like it makes sense, but the opposite could also be true. Being at Leinster, he can understudy Sexton every day at training. He'd have no mentor at Ulster. Sexton mentioned the other day how impirtant Dr. Phil was to his development.

Nah, no way the opposite is true if it means Carbery gets one start a year at 10.

prawnsambo · 23-04-2018 07:18AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah, no way the opposite is true if it means Carbery gets one start a year at 10.

He's been injured a lot. But he had ten starts last season despite being out injured for a chunk of that too.

Buer · 23-04-2018 07:48AM

stl.ire wrote: »

As for who Ulster could get that’s better than the Leinster lads? First they have Piutau money. Second that wasn’t my point. They don’t need an unbelievable 10 they need a mentor for their academy guys. They need a stable hand for the next few years as they rebuild not some Beauden Barrett who would be wasted until the rest of the team was sorted.

The question still stands. The player you describe is a very hard to come by type of option. There are a couple playing in the AP who fit that bill in Gopperth and Flood but I don't think many Ulster fans would want either.

The top end players are either already playing in France or are still in the SH where they'll be staying until after the RWC. The vast majority of outhalves in Super Rugby squads are young and developing.

Ulster can either try to attract a big name with a huge chunk of cash (and they're very hard to come by at this late stage), go with an average enough player for a fairly solid salary or try to get Carbery/Byrne.

It's a no brainer to me. Having an IQ outhalf who could potentially be a test standard player and be the outhalf for the next decade would be a great return for Ulster. As for people blaming Ulster, I would certainly hope they aren't. This is a situation that has arisen because of the actions of a couple of players and the response from the IRFU.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Comments