Journalism and cycling

Hurrache · 12-04-2018 07:15PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Can probably go in the high vis thread, but this evening on Matt Cooper they'll be discussing why high vis does little to protect cyclists.

Anyone catch it? I missed it.

Lemming · 12-04-2018 09:52PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Anyone catch it? I missed it.

Fairly short segement, wedged in amongst other stuff. Discussion point was around study findings from Italy from before and after the law changes regards use of hi-vis clothing for cyclists, and that it has made very little impact on the stats regards motor-vehicle collisions with cyclists. Guest speaker makes the salient point that all the hi-viz, helmets, and blinking lights in the world wont protect you if the driver isn't paying attention because they're too busy looking at their phone anyway. Sadly that point seemed to bounce off Cooper's brain as he was more keen in proclaiming why should all the blame be laid at the feet of the driver, whataboutery etc. and the usual guff. I thought his guest carried himself well and responded to Cooper's - at times complete - sh1te with aplomb.

I'm not sure if it was just Cooper playing devils advocate or just trying to stir some controversy, but I could have sworn I could hear the thoughts of the guy suffering Coopers questioning at times reigning in the urge to be blunt with a response to the more inane questions.

All told though, it really was a "nothing to see here, move along" segment. Cooper just blasted through it and moved onto the next topic.

12-04-2018 10:25PM

I see cooper at night on tv3 the odd time, never listen to radio so have no idea what he's like there but imo from what I've seen he's the type who fancies himself as way more intelligent than he actually is at times based solely on the questioning I've heard him spout at guests.

Annie get your Run · 13-04-2018 11:06AM

Lemming wrote: »

Fairly short segement, wedged in amongst other stuff. Discussion point was around study findings from Italy from before and after the law changes regards use of hi-vis clothing for cyclists, and that it has made very little impact on the stats regards motor-vehicle collisions with cyclists. Guest speaker makes the salient point that all the hi-viz, helmets, and blinking lights in the world wont protect you if the driver isn't paying attention because they're too busy looking at their phone anyway. Sadly that point seemed to bounce off Cooper's brain as he was more keen in proclaiming why should all the blame be laid at the feet of the driver, whataboutery etc. and the usual guff. I thought his guest carried himself well and responded to Cooper's - at times complete - sh1te with aplomb.

I'm not sure if it was just Cooper playing devils advocate or just trying to stir some controversy, but I could have sworn I could hear the thoughts of the guy suffering Coopers questioning at times reigning in the urge to be blunt with a response to the more inane questions.

All told though, it really was a "nothing to see here, move along" segment. Cooper just blasted through it and moved onto the next topic.

It was very poorly done IMO. Cooper claims to be a cyclist, I can't see how he is with some of his views but hey ho. After the segment he read out all the whataboutery texts from all the motorists who see all the things cyclists do wrong every day - absolutely no comment whatsoever on drivers using their phones etc.

Follow up segment on motoring and a discussion on the revision of 'road tax' (they actually called it that before correcting themselves). Not one single mention of using bike in that whole discussion. They talked about electric cars and anyone who lives in a city should be incentivize to buy an electric car to get around - I mean SERIOUSLY :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

And I like Matt!!!!

Kaisr Sose · 13-04-2018 09:01PM

Annie get your Run wrote: »

After the segment he read out all the whataboutery texts from all the motorists who see all the things cyclists do wrong every day - absolutely no comment whatsoever on drivers using their phones etc.

This morning I seen a young woman driving with phone between hands and on steering wheel while driving in heavy traffic. (Looking at phone, scrolling, looking up, looking at phone, scrolling....then repeat). Thinking that was bad, this evening I seen a man driving at 50/60kph while reading what looked like printed A4 pages in front of the steering wheel .....Both totally nuts and irresponsible.

....but all cyclists break red lights, are a menace and don’t pay road tax Joe...:

Pinch Flat · 14-04-2018 04:36PM

Radio piece on newstalk earlier, hosted by Boddy Kerr, all about Drogheda and Dundalk and initiatives to increase their respective economies.

Randomly, someone texts in the say “do something about the cycle lanes in Dundalk as they’re killing business in the town”, which bobby reads out.

Next segment is about a fella who runs a private commuter bus company daily from Dundalk to Dublin - says he has real problems serving towns on the way off the motorway like lusk and rush due to chronic traffic congestion.

Pinch Flat · 15-04-2018 10:49AM

Call me biased, but my reading of this is "50% of Corkonians couldn't be ar$ed walking, cycling or getting public transport to the shops".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/turnover-down-by-over-50-as-traffic-restrictions-hit-cork-traders-1.3461247

tomasrojo · 15-04-2018 11:40AM

Is there a non-IT source on the effect of the restrictions? I don't trust the IT in the slightest on active travel issues. I'm not saying this story isn't broadly true, but the IT pushes this line about every attempt to shift travel modes.

tomasrojo · 15-04-2018 11:41AM

I know the bus transit times have improved -- or at least I saw it reported on Twitter -- but I suppose that's a separate albeit related issue.

amcalester · 15-04-2018 11:53AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Radio piece on newstalk earlier, hosted by Boddy Kerr, all about Drogheda and Dundalk and initiatives to increase their respective economies.

Randomly, someone texts in the say “do something about the cycle lanes in Dundalk as they’re killing business in the town”, which bobby reads out.

Next segment is about a fella who runs a private commuter bus company daily from Dundalk to Dublin - says he has real problems serving towns on the way off the motorway like lusk and rush due to chronic traffic congestion.

To be fair the cycle lanes in Dundalk are awful and I doubt they in any way encourage people to cycle. There are a few sections that are just dangerous.

Not sure how they are hurting business though. Biggest issues affecting business in Dundalk is the Marshes Shopping Centre sucking up all the footfall and the proximity of the border.

Pinch Flat · 15-04-2018 12:24PM

amcalester wrote: »

To be fair the cycle lanes in Dundalk are awful and I doubt they in any way encourage people to cycle. There are a few sections that are just dangerous.

Agreed. I've cycled trough Dundalk and it's a mess. Designed by a mortor centric road engineer with zero exposure to good practice I'd say.

amcalester wrote: »

Not sure how they are hurting business though. Biggest issues affecting business in Dundalk is the Marshes Shopping Centre sucking up all the footfall and the proximity of the border.

Can't see how these are impacting on the economic well being of an area, other than stopping motorists pulling up direct outside the shop they're going to (not that it doesn't stop them anyway!):pac:

Tombo2001 · 16-04-2018 09:36AM

Anyone else annoyed by the JustEat Dublin Bike Ads on the radio these days....

Basically along the lines of....

Cyclists......you dont know how to signal.....let me explain to you in a slow loud voice.......and other ads on that kind "I'm telling you this for your own good" theme.

I dont see BMW or Hertz running ads explaining to Drivers not to use the mobile phone (though admittedly some the insurance companies do this).

I dont see Nike running ads telling people how to look up before crossing the road.

But cyclists need this type of information?

Its almost as if the ads are indirectly aimed at drivers - yes thats right drivers, they dont have a clue what they're at, we have to explain it to them.

Kaisr Sose · 16-04-2018 01:37PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Anyone else annoyed by the JustEat Dublin Bike Ads on the radio these days....

Basically along the lines of....

Cyclists......you dont know how to signal.....let me explain to you in a slow loud voice.......and other ads on that kind "I'm telling you this for your own good" theme.

I dont see BMW or Hertz running ads explaining to Drivers not to use the mobile phone (though admittedly some the insurance companies do this).

I dont see Nike running ads telling people how to look up before crossing the road.

But cyclists need this type of information?

Its almost as if the ads are indirectly aimed at drivers - yes thats right drivers, they dont have a clue what they're at, we have to explain it to them.

Meanwhile I see ‘Just Eat delivery cyclists’ Going through red lights and cycling in the dark with no lights ....

check_six · 16-04-2018 01:50PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Anyone else annoyed by the JustEat Dublin Bike Ads on the radio these days....

Heard it once. Hated it. It's terrible, it's condescending, and I'd guess there
is a thinly veiled ulterior motive as you suggest.

TheChizler · 16-04-2018 02:03PM

Didn't realize JustEat had taken over from Coke Zero. I thought ye were saying JustEat had taken out radio ads just to tell their delivery drivers how to cycle!

Grassey · 20-04-2018 11:41AM

http://www.thejournal.ie/cork-city-grand-experiment-3967967-Apr2018/

Cork city's car ban 'grand experiment' could end after just three weeks

Shame to try canning it so quick, should have let it run over the summer months to assess properly.

eeeee · 20-04-2018 11:58AM

What were the issues with it?

magicbastarder · 20-04-2018 11:59AM

the shops objected. claims of a 50% drop in footfall, IIRC.

eeeee · 20-04-2018 12:05PM

Ah jaysus really? Not a big period of adjustment. I bet if given a proper go it would be much busier without traffic as people can languish about and amble from shop to shop without having to cross traffic. Seems short-sighted, but if it was quieter it's quieter. I'm thinking of how much more difficult it would be to shop somewhere like Grafton street if it still had traffic, I imagine Patrick Street to be the same?

Hurrache · 20-04-2018 12:07PM

But the weather has been pretty **** during that period anyway. Seems to me that someone wasn't that pushed in it working.

TheChizler · 20-04-2018 12:11PM

Hurrache wrote: »

But the weather has been pretty **** during that period anyway. Seems to me that someone wasn't that pushed in it working.

Nearly 4 times the recorded rainfall for the same period last year. But it was the bus lane... :rolleyes:

tomasrojo · 20-04-2018 12:33PM

A drop in footfall, which should be independently assessed, might be temporary. The point about customers complaining is not as strong a point as one might at first suppose. Cyclists, pedestrians and public transport users are hardly going to walk into the shop beaming about how nice things are now, and how much easier it was to get there, even if it was. As I saw someone say on Twitter this morning, acid flows faster than honey.

tomasrojo · 20-04-2018 12:42PM

I heard something about people getting the misconception that the street was somehow closed, or permanently closed to cars, whereas it was just during the afternoon.

Reminds me of the sign I saw in Dundrum last year before the festival, announcing that Main Street would be closed the following week. Main Street was far from closed; it was in fact very busy. In large part because there wasn't a constant flow of motorised vehicles bisecting the district.

CramCycle · 20-04-2018 01:24PM

it was really poorly implemented, even the green councillor for north Cork said it was a shambles. They gave no huge notifications, and one day the gardai turned up at one end of the street directing traffic away. Everyone though there was an accident or a crime was in progress.

This said, everyone I know from Cork said it has been as busy as you'd get normally, in fact on a few occasions when it was not raining, the street was busier than usual.

The basic premise I pick up is that whoever on the council team was in charge of organising it, either done no work or deliberately wanted it to fail, there really is no other reason for such a poorly implemented plan.

Hurrache · 20-04-2018 03:28PM

CramCycle wrote: »

They gave no huge notifications, and one day the gardai turned up at one end of the street directing traffic away. Everyone though there was an accident or a crime was in progress.

I dunno, I live the other end of the country and I knew it was coming because I had seen it in various media outlets.

what_traffic · 20-04-2018 05:18PM

CramCycle wrote: »

The basic premise I pick up is that whoever on the council team was in charge of organising it, either done no work or deliberately wanted it to fail, there really is no other reason for such a poorly implemented plan.

Ya looks like a box ticking exercise from Council. Real failure from officialdom is to develop conversations on the ground and bring commercial and public transport interests with them before launching such schemes.
What did Roy Keane say: "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail?"
But then again perhaps thats what they wanted in the end. To much hard work at the end of the day.
This is not unique to Cork City. Have seen the same in Galway City around the "Car Free" day when certain streets were closed for 4 hours. Zero engagment in lead up, howls of protest from motordom and local business, headlines in local paper blaming it for x y and "the bad weather on the day".

TheChizler · 20-04-2018 06:02PM

I think that's pretty unfair, ther was loads of notice in newspapers and street signage. This was planned for two years. Lanes were marked in advance with the times in 4 foot letters, footpaths were modified and bus priority lights put in to facilitate new bus lanes. Hardly a box ticking exercise. More of an example of officials not having the backbone to not cave in to loud protest to change IMO.

what_traffic · 20-04-2018 09:20PM

TheChizler wrote: »

I think that's pretty unfair, ther was loads of notice in newspapers and street signage. This was planned for two years. Lanes were marked in advance with the times in 4 foot letters, footpaths were modified and bus priority lights put in to facilitate new bus lanes. Hardly a box ticking exercise. More of an example of officials not having the backbone to not cave in to loud protest to change IMO.

That's the problem - that evidently is not enough?
How come the Traders have turned on the idea so quickly?
Need to have more bottom up consultation and locked in time frames agreed.
The real problem is nobody will get fired for this in City Hall, so it does not matter if something is a success or not.

tomasrojo · 21-04-2018 08:36AM

what_traffic wrote: »

How come the Traders have turned on the idea so quickly?
Need to have more bottom up consultation

Based on what's happened over and over again in Dublin: there is a core of vociferous business owners, who, like many who are wealthier than average, think that people who don't travel by car are the wrong type of people; maybe not actually penniless hippies or shoplifters (though they probably are), but certainly not "high-end" shoppers.

It's largely prejudice.

I'm not saying this scheme was well implemented. I don't know much about it. But I would be very dubious of traders saying that trade has declined by 30% since the restriction was put in place. Just because they're human beings, and human beings in general don't stint on exaggeration when they want to get their way.

If the restriction was only during the afternoon and trade really did decline by that much, there must have been a misperception of the extent of the restriction. For a typical urban centre, about 30% of total business would be down to car travellers.

ford2600 · 21-04-2018 09:02AM

tomasrojo wrote: »

Based on what's happened over and over again in Dublin: there is a core of vociferous business owners, who, like many who are wealthier than average, think that people who don't travel by car are the wrong type of people; maybe not actually penniless hippies or shoplifters (though they probably are), but certainly not "high-end" shoppers.

It's largely prejudice.

I'm not saying this scheme was well implemented. I don't know much about it. But I would be very dubious of traders saying that trade has declined by 30% since the restriction was put in place. Just because they're human beings, and human beings in general don't stint on exaggeration when they want to get their way.

If the restriction was only during the afternoon and trade really did decline by that much, there must have been a misperception of the extent of the restriction. For a typical urban centre, about 30% of total business would be down to car travellers.

I have to get into Cork City centre about 100 times a year; I think I've driven on Patrick Street once over the years. Bar you have ambulatory difficulties between buses, Park & Ride and quite of lot of available street parking around city centre it's a lovely city centre to access one foot.

Patrick Street has light, which are slow, on Grand Parade, Academy Street and Merchant's Quay along with at least one pedestrian crossing; it is slow as fcuk to drive on. People are lazy in adapting to change and want to use the route they always have rather than adapting their mode or route.

Either side of Patrick Street is predominantly pedestrian street; Paul Street to the north and Oliver Plunkett Street to south and all the linking streets. Making Patrick Street more pedestrian friendly could only be good for trade in the long term.

People who own business, generally are anxious/afraid of change; like any anxious person control is weapon of choice.

I feel sorry for the council; like any bureaucracy it will have dead wood but in my experience councils have lots of staff who take great pride in their city/county and work as hard as any private sector employees.

They should double down on this; take the cars out of the South Mall also, develop a few park/communal areas and make the city centre a destination for activities other than shopping.

Journalism and cycling

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