Teenager found guilt of hate crime for......

silverharp · 20-04-2018 04:33PM

CruelCoin wrote: »

WAT

the bbc article doesn't say who the "victim" is, I'd assume it would be the person who reported her

20-04-2018 04:37PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

This isn't your usual "Muslim refugee rapes a white chick", "Pink haired, trans lesbian that nobody ever heard says something dumb" or "Hard line Islamic cleric on benefits calls for nationwide ban on pork" thread. I get that there are a lot of alt-reich outrages posted in here and this OP is a MAGA head but this is more than their usual PC gone mad stuff.

There is a legitimate problem here. A person got prosecuted for writing some lyrics with the word "nigga" in them on the internet. That's really messed up.

Yeah this case is mental, but it's the constant agenda pushing that you get sick of it and it's all part of it, taking the life out of the place as you can't even have a laugh in these types of threads.

mcmoustache · 20-04-2018 04:39PM

silverharp wrote: »

the bbc article doesn't say who the "victim" is, I'd assume it would be the person who reported her

Here's the Liverpool Echo link. It's a better write-up but it also doesn't make clear to whom the surcharge went.

mcmoustache · 20-04-2018 04:45PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah this case is mental, but it's the constant agenda pushing that you get sick of it and it's all part of it, taking the life out of the place as you can't even have a laugh in these types of threads.

Oh I don't disagree with that. There are quite a few permanently outraged Daily Mail and Breitbart readers on here pushing the same agenda all the time but for once, the OP has a fair point. Stopped clocks and all that.

I dislike the OP as much as anyone (see Politics), but he's stumbled into something that should concern people of all political persuasions.

Venom · 20-04-2018 04:53PM

silverharp wrote: »

the bbc article doesn't say who the "victim" is, I'd assume it would be the person who reported her

I wonder if it's like the case against the Youtuber Count Dankula, where no complaint was ever made to the police and it was, in fact, the Scotish Police who took the case against him.

The £85 victim surcharge here is just farcical. If said PC is so offended by the lyrics posted by this teenager on Twitter, should she not go after the writer and singer of said lyrics as well?

Irish Guitarist · 20-04-2018 05:06PM

The screenshot was passed to hate crime unit PC Dominique Walker, who told the court the term was "grossly offensive" to her as a black woman and to the general community.

What an absolute moron. "As a black woman.." as if that makes her opinion more valid. How is someone like this even working for the police? Are they recruiting by searching for the whiniest idiots they can find on Twitter?

And how did the police even find this post by the teenage girl? Do they have a special unit sitting around all day searching for hashtags or something or did someone with a grudge against her report it?

Maxpfizer · 20-04-2018 05:15PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Here's the Liverpool Echo link. It's a better write-up but it also doesn't make clear to whom the surcharge went.

Wow. Something still feels "off" to me. Like maybe there is context like she was known for posting racist stuff or something?

A few points are kind of troubling.

"The content was then passed to Constable Dominique Walker, who is based within a specialist police hate crime unit."

"The court heard that Ms Walker was the sister of Anthony Walker, who was the victim of a notorious race hate murder on Merseyside."

How is this relevant to the case? So the cop who works in the hate crime unit is the sister of the victim of an extremely severe hate crime. Do they bring all hate crime allegations to her so they can leverage this in court? Like to give the accusation more weight?

What I also find interesting is... "Russell, who was charged with sending a grossly offensive message by means of a public electronic communications network, was found guilty following a trial."

But that is followed by... from the judge "the lyrics also encourage killing and robbing, so are grossly offensive".

If the lyrics encourage killing and robbing then isn't the original content just as offensive as the post on Instagram?

Is it even legal to purchase this content in the UK? You can buy Snap Doggs music on the itunes store, can listen to it on Spotify and on Google Play too.

So how are Itunes, Spotify and Google Play also not guilty of sending a grossly offensive message by means of a public electronic communications network?

District Judge Jack McGarva said: “There is no place in civil society for language like that."

How out of touch are these judges? I mean I wouldn't use that word but isn't our society is full of examples of language like that?

Would a local cinema in the UK be in trouble if they screened a Tarantino movie? The script is written by a white guy, right?

Maxpfizer · 20-04-2018 05:21PM

You know what's crazy?

She posted the lyrics as a "tribute" to a 13 year old lad who was hit by a car while out on his bike.

The CPS decided NOT to charge anyone over that.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/frankie-murphys-parents-say-decision-13614006

No sh!t, they didn't even charge anyone but they did manage to charge another kid over an Instagram post related to the lads death.

mcmoustache · 20-04-2018 05:22PM

You make a lot of good points there, Max. Particularly about Snap's album and streaming services. If the logic behind this charge were top be applied consistently, the courts would be tied up for years. I'd like to see a protest in the UK where as many people as possible post the lyrics to their social media. It might show the absurdity of it all.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 20-04-2018 05:24PM

The UK has become a scary place.

Bloody Police State at this stage.

No wonder gangsterism and organised crime are out of control in the big urban areas. Police are putting more time and effort into this crap than fighting actual crime.

Maxpfizer · 20-04-2018 05:36PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

You make a lot of good points there, Max. Particularly about Snap's album and streaming services. If the logic behind this charge were top be applied consistently, the courts would be tied up for years. I'd like to see a protest in the UK where as many people as possible post the lyrics to their social media. It might show the absurdity of it all.

No chance.

Without getting too hysterical, history teaches that people will often sit by and let things like this happen until it's pretty much too late.

Right now, in the UK you have to be extremely careful what you post online. This kid only had 100 or so followers, according to the article, who knows how many even saw the comment and still this somehow managed to get the attention of the police to the extent that she now has a criminal record.

This is WAY worse than that "Nazi Pug" case as I think he did know he was pushing some boundaries.

This seems more like a kid thinking that was an OK thing to quote and share (it's not like she came up with the lyrics herself) and the law has decided to make an example of her.

I expect that most people will just keep their heads down and not bother about it.

People are quicker to outrage when it's safer. You're not gonna get arrested for protesting the outcome of the Belfast trial. You're not gonna get in trouble for "showing solidarity". I'm not so sure it would be the case here.

The past few weeks on Boards has seen a lot of people VERY vocal about how a 19 year old woman in Belfast was treated by the UK justice system so maybe they are going to come along and make a big deal of this too.

Irish Guitarist · 20-04-2018 05:39PM

I Googled the name of the cop who found this offensive as a black woman and found this article. She wants to improve race relations apparently. I don't think charging white people for a crime because they like rap music is the best way to go about that.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/10/liverpool-police-dominique-walker-interview

I suspect the only reason she's working for the police is because of some kind of quota or as a publicity stunt. There's absolutely no way a professional police officer should be offended by rap lyrics.

Maxpfizer · 20-04-2018 05:50PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I Googled the name of the cop who found this offensive as a black woman and found this article. She wants to improve race relations apparently. I don't think charging white people for a crime because they like rap music is the best way to go about that.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/10/liverpool-police-dominique-walker-interview

I suspect the only reason she's working for the police is because of some kind of quota or as a publicity stunt. There's absolutely no way a professional police officer should be offended by rap lyrics.

Kind of sad reading that. She obviously means well and her heart was at least in the right place in 2012.

You'd easily say "best of luck" to her and wish her every success.

Fast forward to 2018 and she's fighting racism in Liverpool by giving evidence against a kid who posted rap lyrics on Instagram.

"In her mind she thinks of events as BA and AA – Before and After Anthony – and believes that her brother would be pleased that she is on the frontline, standing up against the criminals."

Atoms for Peace · 20-04-2018 05:55PM

The UK realy is going down the tubes.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 20-04-2018 06:16PM

Crazy, you can get in trouble for posting a piece of art.

The Legend Of Kira · 20-04-2018 06:45PM

While im not a fan of rap music,, i don,t think quoting lyrics from rap songs on a social media page should an issue worthy of police time/investigation ,, what next would they investigate someone if he/she quoted some of the lyrics of the (nine inch nails ) song ( closer ) on social media ?

dav3 · 20-04-2018 06:49PM

If the people of the UK don't like how their country is being run by the right-wing consvervative party, propped up by far-right nutters from the North of Ireland, they are free vote them out in the next election. It looks like it's going that way anyway.

What exactly are Irish people on an Irish forum expected to do about these stories and ensuing whingefests?

yesto24 · 20-04-2018 06:58PM

dav3 wrote: »

If the people of the UK don't like how their country is being run by the right-wing consvervative party, propped up by far-right nutters from the North of Ireland, they are free vote them out in the next election. It looks like it's going that way anyway.

What exactly are Irish people on an Irish forum expected to do about these stories and ensuing whingefests?

As we tend to follow the UK in a lot of things both good and bad.
The only thing an Irish person can do is take this as a warning for the future.
File this case away, ready to be drawn out, when these laws will be proposed here, as an example of what can happen.

wexie · 20-04-2018 07:03PM

Ayan Freezing Saltwater wrote: »

Crazy, you can get in trouble for posting a piece of art.

That's probably the most forgiving and liberal definition of 'art' I've seen in quite a while

20-04-2018 07:22PM

dav3 wrote: »

If the people of the UK don't like how their country is being run by the right-wing consvervative party, propped up by far-right nutters from the North of Ireland, they are free vote them out in the next election. It looks like it's going that way anyway.

What exactly are Irish people on an Irish forum expected to do about these stories and ensuing whingefests?

Take heed it doesn't start happening here

Gravelly · 20-04-2018 07:43PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Take heed it doesn't start happening here

Judging by the amount of obfuscation and deflection on this thread, there are plenty here who would welcome it.

Paddy Cow · 20-04-2018 08:12PM

It's absolutely ridiculous that this girl was given a criminal conviction and punishments for posting the lyrics of a song. If the lyrics are deemed to be hateful, then the person they should go after is the person singing and promoting the song.

The police woman who was so offended by the lyrics needs a good kick up the arse (metaphorically speaking of course

).

I'm sick of all the agro surrounding the "N-word". I understand it's historical connotations and I wish it would just die off. All this bs about "re-claiming" the word is nonsense. Rappers make millions out of selling albums riddled with the word to people of all races. I've never heard a rapper saying "well I don't want any non-black people buying my records, only black people should buy it, as it is empowering to us". They are quite happy to sell their tripe to any impressionable young person, simply to increase their bank balance.

If it wasn't for rappers using the N-word in their songs, it would have died a death over 20 years ago and we wouldn't have situations like this. Teenagers aren't known for having a great world view and are heavily influenced by music. When they hear that word all the time, it's normal to them. In this case, the teenager in question wasn't even calling someone the N-word. She was repeating lyrics ffs.

I thought America was a bit nuts but I can't believe how the UK are going with their twitter and social media prosecutions. I really hope Ireland doesn't go down this route.

RandomName2 · 20-04-2018 09:19PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Take heed it doesn't start happening here

Seeing that we seem to zombie-like adopt everything policy we see in either the US or UK, that is more than a passing concern.

kunst nugget · 21-04-2018 12:03AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Take heed it doesn't start happening here

Ireland doesn't have the same issues with race relations that the UK, and in particular places like Liverpool, has. I seriously don't see it as a 'WE'RE NEXT!' scenario.

The Legend Of Kira · 21-04-2018 12:24AM

bluewolf wrote: »

dav3 wrote: »

If the people of the UK don't like how their country is being run by the right-wing consvervative party, propped up by far-right nutters from the North of Ireland, they are free vote them out in the next election. It looks like it's going that way anyway.

What exactly are Irish people on an Irish forum expected to do about these stories and ensuing whingefests?

Take heed it doesn't start happening here

A green party councillor wrote in the journal.ie this week & said some of the following.

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]"" Hate crime legislation[/font]

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]In the absence of such legislation, unregulated offensive commentary continues unabated. "[/font]

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]"" Words are hurtful "" .[/font]

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/kilkenny-mosque-debate-this-could-become-dangerous-tensions-could-escalate-3963552-Apr2018/[/font]

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]There are people like this out there who want offensive online commentary to be classed as "" hate c[/font][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]rime " .[/font]

CruelCoin · 21-04-2018 08:35AM

wexie wrote: »

That's probably the most forgiving and liberal definition of 'art' I've seen in quite a while

There is a certain piece of "art" on youtube where the rap is around 80% n-word based.
Just search the n-word and you'll find it.

There really has to be a cutoff point to what is considered art when it comes to music.
Dunno. Maybe the dude is just owning his heritage, or some other mumbo jumbo.

Because i'm 1/4 chinese, maybe i'll spend the weekend in dublin pulling at my eyes and demanding people respect the famiri. Just owning my heritage afterall.

Thargor · 21-04-2018 08:44AM

According to this the teenager didn't even say n***er, it was n***a, this is insane:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-who-posted-rap-lyrics-14543694

That police woman sounds like a bit of a loon.

21-04-2018 08:45AM

dav3 wrote: »

If the people of the UK don't like how their country is being run by the right-wing consvervative party, propped up by far-right nutters from the North of Ireland, they are free vote them out in the next election. It looks like it's going that way anyway.

What exactly are Irish people on an Irish forum expected to do about these stories and ensuing whingefests?

You’re right, no more stories from abroad, including our nearest neighbor, from here on out. You tell ‘em!

doolox · 21-04-2018 09:27AM

The reality is that the rap singer and writer is backed by a huge corporation who would take any case all the way to the top court with a battalion of lawyers and legal experts and probably take the cop to the cleaners in costs and libel claims.

The hapless teenager probably hasn't a bean and could probably not afford a decent legal defence to wipe out this ludicrous case.

What is badly needed is a fund to defend people from mad cases like this.

This is how the AA started, as a defence and advisory club for drivers who were at the receiving end of some ludicrous laws and ordinances which held back car development in Britain for decades.

This only serves to make me hate people of a certain colour and ethnic origin even more and that I am heartily glad I don't live in England.

What unit was the cop in? PREVENTION of hatred ??????

dav3 · 21-04-2018 10:07AM

Omackeral wrote: »

You’re right, no more stories from abroad, including our nearest neighbor, from here on out. You tell ‘em!

Neighbour

I have no problem with stories from abroad. I quite enjoy watching the same people, every day, getting themselves worked up over trivial issues that have no impact on Irish society.

Teenager found guilt of hate crime for......

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