The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

robarmstrong · 19-04-2018 03:26PM

January wrote: »

Heartbreaking. I have a daughter with a heart condition (and yes Robert, if you want me to tell you which one, just ask, I've no problem discussing it on the internet because just naming it doesn't make her identifiable), she's currently healthy and hopeful that she can become a mammy one day (she's not yet ten but often says 'when I'm a mammmy, like you... I'll do this... e.g. breastfeed, baby wear etc) but we don't know what the future holds because CHD is scary and no one knows how her heart will be in a few years. I don't want her to have to travel if she finds herself pregnant and her heart is not healthy enough to carry a pregnancy to term.

I've had nothing but respect for you from the moment you told your story here initially and I am absolutely delighted your daughter is happy and healthy.

If I found myself in that situation (the one you mention about your daughter and pregnancy in the future), regardless of my opinion or beliefs about abortion, I would rather my baby girl have the abortion here than have to put her on a plane.

baylah17 · 19-04-2018 03:26PM

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

hires sh*ite I tells ya

Would you post that in English?

Tipperary animal lover · 19-04-2018 03:30PM

baylah17 wrote: »

Would you post that in English?
Is that better!!

SusieBlue · 19-04-2018 03:37PM

@RobertKK & horseburger, I'm very interested in hearing what position you would take if you had a daughter with a condition similar to that of the one I posted from "In Her Shoes".

Seeing as we can confidently say you will both be voting No, if you were a parent of a child with that condition and she found herself pregnant, what would you do? What would your advice to your child be?

I presume you would be expecting her to gamble with her life on a safe outcome, given that is exactly the position you are putting other parents and women in by voting No in the referendum?

ohnonotgmail · 19-04-2018 03:40PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Between 30% and 34% of abortions are repeat abortions.

I know. do you know what else? the older a woman is the more likely she is to have a repeat abortion. why do you think that is?

how many women have 7, 8 or 9 abortions?

horseburger · 19-04-2018 03:41PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not interested in the discussion between Maria Steen and Ivana Bacik, I am interested in whether you will follow through in the ballot box in line with the statements you have made on this thread.

You have said you favour abortion in limited circumstances which are currently prohibited by the 8th.

You haven't confirmed that means you are voting to repeal the 8th.

Do you not think you should be considering the discussion with Maria Steen, on Prime Time on RTE One on 18th January 2918, where Ivana Bacik stated that Down's Syndrome is not one of the grounds for abortion recommended by the Oireachtas Committee.

Maria Steen gave the example of Germany, where abortion on grounds of disability is not permitted, but that abortions in the case of Down's Syndrome, are occurring in Germany under mental health grounds.

Are you not concerned about the question of the reliability of what was claimed by Ivana Bacik on 18th January 2018, considering that on 22nd November 2017, Patricia Lohr of BPAS spoke of how a case of abortion on "foetal sex" grounds, would not be permitted under grounds of "foetal sex", but could be permitted under a different ground.

Ivana Bacik posted, on youtube the address by Patricia Lohr at the Oireachtas Committee on 22nd November 2017, and omitted in her video on youtube, the dialogue between Patricia Lohr and Peter Fitzpatrick, which calls into question the reliability of what was claimed by Ivana Bacik.

Two months later, on 18th January 2018 Ivana Bacik claimed that cases of Down's Syndrome would not be approved for abortion.

This contradicts what Patricia Lohr stated - regarding different grounds being applied, where the original ground was not accepted - at the Oireachtas Committee.

Patricia Lohr - at the Oireachtas Committee on 22nd November, following a question by Peter Fitzpatrick - detailed how abortion in the ground of sex selection, could be permitted under another ground.

It seems to me that if a case of Down Syndrome could be approved for abortion, under another ground, for example a ground of mental health, as detailed by Maria Steen with regard to Germany, that what was claimed by Ivana Bacik, is not reliable at all.

When Maria Steen made her point about abortions in the case of Down's Syndrome occurring under mental health grounds, Ivana Bacik did not say anything in response.

The dialogue between Patricia Lohr of BPAS and Peter Fitzpatrick, on 22nd November 2017, starts at the 1 hour 58 minute mark in the coverage on the Oireachtas website.

https://media.heanet.ie/p/20171122+Joint+Committee+on+Eighth+Amendment+of+the+Constitution/HbnSmB

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=37332&&CatID=127&StartDate=01 January 2017&OrderAscending=0

Transcript:

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/EAJ2017112200002#N240

horseburger · 19-04-2018 03:42PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

I have asked you numerous times if you could give a definitive yes or no answer to my query and all you done was deflect and take away from it, I didn't ask anything other than that, you wouldn't give a definitive answer because it would have destroyed your buddy's argument.

What issues do you have, as someone who's "on the fence", with the pro-life campaign? Why do you seem to only pick at the pro-choice side? Bit of a weird thing to do for someone who's on the fence.

Why do you want to know, considering you've already made your own determination on what you think it is?

AnneFrank · 19-04-2018 03:42PM

There is stories on both sides, what about parents who were told their child might not survive and contemplated abortion, or were pressurized into nearly doing so, only for the child to be born to a wonderful life.
Seriously, this harassment is getting out of control.
Why not rename the thread, the vote yes only opinion thread, (otherwise it's open season on you)

ELM327 · 19-04-2018 03:43PM

horseburger wrote: »

Do you not think you should be considering the discussion with Maria Steen, on Prime Time on RTE One on 18th January 2918, where Ivana Bacik stated that Down's Syndrome is not one of the grounds for abortion recommended by the Oireachtas Committee.

Maria Steen gave the example of Germany, where abortion on grounds of disability is not permitted, but that abortions in the case of Down's Syndrome, are occurring in Germany under mental health grounds.

Are you not concerned about the question of the reliability of what was claimed by Ivana Bacik on 18th January 2018, considering that on 22nd November 2017, Patricia Lohr of BPAS spoke of how a case of abortion on "foetal sex" grounds, would not be permitted under grounds of "foetal sex", but could be permitted under a different ground.

Ivana Bacik posted, on youtube the address by Patricia Lohr at the Oireachtas Committee on 22nd November 2017, and omitted in her video on youtube, the dialogue between Patricia Lohr and Peter Fitzpatrick, which calls into question the reliability of what was claimed by Ivana Bacik.

Two months later, on 18th January 2018 Ivana Bacik claimed that cases of Down's Syndrome would not be approved for abortion.

This contradicts what Patricia Lohr stated - regarding different grounds being applied, where the original ground was not accepted - at the Oireachtas Committee.

Patricia Lohr - at the Oireachtas Committee on 22nd November, following a question by Peter Fitzpatrick - detailed how abortion in the ground of sex selection, could be permitted under another ground.

It seems to me that if a case of Down Syndrome could be approved for abortion, under another ground, for example a ground of mental health, as detailed by Maria Steen with regard to Germany, that what was claimed by Ivana Bacik, is not reliable at all.

When Maria Steen made her point about abortions in the case of Down's Syndrome occurring under mental health grounds, Ivana Bacik did not say anything in response.

The dialogue between Patricia Lohr of BPAS and Peter Fitzpatrick, on 22nd November 2017, starts at the 1 hour 58 minute mark in the coverage on the Oireachtas website.

https://media.heanet.ie/p/20171122+Joint+Committee+on+Eighth+Amendment+of+the+Constitution/HbnSmB

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=37332&&CatID=127&StartDate=01 January 2017&OrderAscending=0

Transcript:

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/EAJ2017112200002#N240

Oh look, another spam post filled with rubbish links to youtube.
Can you not post any reasoned posts of your own anymore?
All been debunked like the rubbish "1 in 5"

ELM327 · 19-04-2018 03:43PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

There is stories on both sides, what about parents who were told their child might not survive and contemplated abortion, or were pressurized into nearly doing so, only for the child to be born to a wonderful life.
Seriously, this harassment is getting out of control.
Why not rename the thread, the vote yes only opinion thread, (otherwise it's open season on you)

More likely the "It's open season on you when you run out of rational points" thread.
Because there are no rational, non-theist based reasons to vote no.

robarmstrong · 19-04-2018 03:43PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh look, another spam post filled with rubbish links to youtube.
Can you not post any reasoned posts of your own anymore?
All been debunked like the rubbish "1 in 5"

Ask him about his opinion/issues with the pro-life campaign and watch him blissfully ignore what you've asked of him.

NuMarvel · 19-04-2018 03:44PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Ganging up on and harassing me and others of a different view will only weaken whatever agenda you wish to push.

Responding to posts you make on a publicly accessible forum isn't "ganging up" or "harassing". It's called discussion, which is the point of Boards.

however, if you do feel you are being harassed, you should absolutely report the relevant post(s) so the moderators can deal with it as appropriate.

baylah17 · 19-04-2018 03:44PM

Oh the joy of the ignore button and #repealshield
Horseshi*e unseen except where quoted by others

garbo speaks · 19-04-2018 03:44PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I know. do you know what else? the older a woman is the more likely she is to have a repeat abortion. why do you think that is?

how many women have 7, 8 or 9 abortions?

Some women wear the "I've had an abortion" like a badge of honor. What a frightening time we live in where the liberal media has brainwashed society into thinking this is normal.

robarmstrong · 19-04-2018 03:46PM

garbo speaks wrote: »

Some women wear the "I've had an abortion" like a badge of honor. What a frightening time we live in where the liberal media has brainwashed society into thinking this is normal.

Well you've been brainwashed into forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term and believing it's fine. Do you not think that is frightening to others?

SusieBlue · 19-04-2018 03:48PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

There is stories on both sides, what about parents who were told their child might not survive and contemplated abortion, or were pressurized into nearly doing so, only for the child to be born to a wonderful life.
Seriously, this harassment is getting out of control.
Why not rename the thread, the vote yes only opinion thread, (otherwise it's open season on you)

No one is going to be forced or pressurized into having an abortion, stop scaremongering.
One a similar note I'd argue its inhumane to force or pressurize a woman into continuing a pregnancy she doesn't want, only for herself and her child to live a life of struggle and poverty.

You can't cry harassment when you haven't even bothered to reply to the people who have taken the time to respond to your previous posts.
Its just pure deflection and playing the victim.

horseburger · 19-04-2018 03:48PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Oh look, another spam post filled with rubbish links to youtube.
Can you not post any reasoned posts of your own anymore?
All been debunked like the rubbish "1 in 5"

"Rubbish links to youtube", of videos of programmes, and Oireachtas coverage, where the issue was being discussed.

Well done on criticizing RTE and the Oireachtas for discussing this issue.

gmisk · 19-04-2018 03:48PM

horseburger wrote: »

Do you not think you should be considering the discussion with Maria Steen, on Prime Time on RTE One on 18th January 2918, where Ivana Bacik stated that Down's Syndrome is not one of the grounds for abortion recommended by the Oireachtas Committee.

Maria Steen gave the example of Germany, where abortion on grounds of disability is not permitted, but that abortions in the case of Down's Syndrome, are occurring in Germany under mental health grounds.

Are you not concerned about the question of the reliability of what was claimed by Ivana Bacik on 18th January 2018, considering that on 22nd November 2017, Patricia Lohr of BPAS spoke of how a case of abortion on "foetal sex" grounds, would not be permitted under grounds of "foetal sex", but could be permitted under a different ground.

Ivana Bacik posted, on youtube the address by Patricia Lohr at the Oireachtas Committee on 22nd November 2017, and omitted in her video on youtube, the dialogue between Patricia Lohr and Peter Fitzpatrick, which calls into question the reliability of what was claimed by Ivana Bacik.

Two months later, on 18th January 2018 Ivana Bacik claimed that cases of Down's Syndrome would not be approved for abortion.

This contradicts what Patricia Lohr stated - regarding different grounds being applied, where the original ground was not accepted - at the Oireachtas Committee.

Patricia Lohr - at the Oireachtas Committee on 22nd November, following a question by Peter Fitzpatrick - detailed how abortion in the ground of sex selection, could be permitted under another ground.

It seems to me that if a case of Down Syndrome could be approved for abortion, under another ground, for example a ground of mental health, as detailed by Maria Steen with regard to Germany, that what was claimed by Ivana Bacik, is not reliable at all.

When Maria Steen made her point about abortions in the case of Down's Syndrome occurring under mental health grounds, Ivana Bacik did not say anything in response.

The dialogue between Patricia Lohr of BPAS and Peter Fitzpatrick, on 22nd November 2017, starts at the 1 hour 58 minute mark in the coverage on the Oireachtas website.

https://media.heanet.ie/p/20171122+Joint+Committee+on+Eighth+Amendment+of+the+Constitution/HbnSmB

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=37332&&CatID=127&StartDate=01 January 2017&OrderAscending=0

Transcript:

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/EAJ2017112200002#N240

Ah great here come the links!
Hurrah my day is complete!

robarmstrong · 19-04-2018 03:50PM

horseburger wrote: »

"Rubbish links to youtube", of videos of programmes, and Oireachtas coverage, where the issue was being discussed.

Well done on criticizing RTE and the Oireachtas for discussing this issue.

What are your comments about the shortcomings of the pro-life campaign?

RobertKK · 19-04-2018 03:51PM

garbo speaks wrote: »

Some women wear the "I've had an abortion" like a badge of honor. What a frightening time we live in where the liberal media has brainwashed society into thinking this is normal.

Some women even wish they had an abortion story to tell...

http://time.com/4608364/lena-dunham-wish-abortion-comments/

Zubeneschamali · 19-04-2018 03:51PM

garbo speaks wrote: »

What a frightening time we live in where the liberal media has brainwashed society into thinking this is normal.

What a frightening thing it must be to find yourself 80 years in the future! We have to get you back - Back to the 30s!

robarmstrong · 19-04-2018 03:52PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Some women even wish they had an abortion story to tell...

http://time.com/4608364/lena-dunham-wish-abortion-comments/

Like that pro-life nurse who was found out to be telling porky pies?

Deflect mode is in full force today. Either that or you're just in complete denial.

horseburger · 19-04-2018 03:52PM

gmisk wrote: »

Ah great here come the links!
Hurrah my day is complete!

Perhaps before you complete your day, you might consider what was discussed in the echanges between Peter Fitzpatrick and Patricia Lohr, and how what Ivana Bacik claimed, is contradicted by what was stated by Patricia Lohr two months earlier, on the issue of abortions being approved on grounds that were not originally sought.

robarmstrong · 19-04-2018 03:53PM

horseburger wrote: »

Perhaps before you complete your day, you might consider what was discussed in the echanges between Peter Fitzpatrick and Patricia Lohr, and how what Ivana Bacik claimed, is contradicted by what was stated by Patricia Lohr two months earlier, on the issue of abortions being approved on grounds that were not originally sought.

As someone who's "on the fence" -

What are your comments about the shortcomings of the pro-life campaign?

ohnonotgmail · 19-04-2018 03:54PM

garbo speaks wrote: »

Some women wear the "I've had an abortion" like a badge of honor. What a frightening time we live in where the liberal media has brainwashed society into thinking this is normal.

how about responding to a post when you quote it instead of soapboxing?

SusieBlue · 19-04-2018 03:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Some women even wish they had an abortion story to tell...

http://time.com/4608364/lena-dunham-wish-abortion-comments/

What would you do if your daughter suffered a type of epilepsy similar to the condition described in the post I quoted, would you expect her to lay down her life on the odds that she may survive the pregnancy, or would you advise her to get the boat?

Zubeneschamali · 19-04-2018 03:55PM

horseburger wrote: »

Well done on criticizing RTE and the Oireachtas for discussing this issue.

We are not criticising them - we are criticising you for spamming the thread with them over and over.

ELM327 · 19-04-2018 03:55PM

horseburger wrote: »

Perhaps before you complete your day, you might consider what was discussed in the echanges between Peter Fitzpatrick and Patricia Lohr, and how what Ivana Bacik claimed, is contradicted by what was stated by Patricia Lohr two months earlier, on the issue of abortions being approved on grounds that were not originally sought.

horseburger wrote: »

"Rubbish links to youtube", of videos of programmes, and Oireachtas coverage, where the issue was being discussed.

Well done on criticizing RTE and the Oireachtas for discussing this issue.

Nobody cares what those people think (or you for that matter).
People who are here on the repeal side are here because they are capable of independent rational thought.

I'm surprised the Oireachtas domains are accessible to a US based IP address.

ELM327 · 19-04-2018 03:58PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Ask him about his opinion/issues with the pro-life campaign and watch him blissfully ignore what you've asked of him.

Oh that's been done a few times, when he runs out of ways to deflect he'll log off for a couple of days and the next poster of similar viewpoint comes online!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 19-04-2018 03:58PM

horseburger wrote: »

Perhaps before you complete your day, you might consider what was discussed in the echanges between Peter Fitzpatrick and Patricia Lohr, and how what Ivana Bacik claimed, is contradicted by what was stated by Patricia Lohr two months earlier, on the issue of abortions being approved on grounds that were not originally sought.

What's your opinion on the conduct of the pro-life campaign?

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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