8,000 Starbucks outlets closing because of racism.

runawaybishop · 19-04-2018 12:24PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Can somebody summarise what happened. Did the black guys just sit there or did something else happen.

Dudes sat down, didn't order anything, asked to use bathroom and were told its for paying customers only. Sat around for an hour, not buying anything, asked to leave several times, told the cops would be called. Cops came, asked them to leave several times, they refused and got arrested.

Donald Trump · 19-04-2018 12:43PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

OP has messed this up.

Real story:

2 black guys sat down in a Starbucks in Philadelphia. They didn't order anything. They said they were waiting for a friend. Starbucks called the cops on them. The cops ordered them to leave. The two guys said that this was unreasonable. Friend finally shows up (he's white btw). Friend says "that's it, we're leaving". Cops say "too late, they were given their chance" and arrest them.

A boycott of Starbucks is announced on social media. Starbucks fires the employee who called the police and close 8,000 outlets in order to facilitate racial training for staff. Racial training could basically be summed up with "Google the name Rosa Parks"

Why do Americans call the police for the smallest of things? Particularly when the police in America are heavily armed, paranoid, and heavy handed.

Yeah.....if you are going to be a bit sensationalist and post the "real story" you should post a longer video rather than imply that the manager hit a "black person came in" panic buzzer under the counter when the men arrived followed by the instant deployment of a rapid reaction hit team to get them out of there

That's at least 7 minutes that they were arguing with the cops before the cops had to arrest them. What else could the cops do? They had been called to remove trespassers from private property. If the dickheads wanted to stay they could have purchased a small drink at any point in time. Entitled dickheads piggybacking off people who actually suffer discrimination

Danzy · 19-04-2018 01:12PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

I don't know about that, but I doubt that that account is verifiable. Certainly the (911 ?) call didn't have any record of them being there for an hour, or being particularly confrontational.

But yeah, sure, they could have been rude.

Calling the police is an extreme response. How often have you heard of a store in Ireland calling the police? I've never heard of it. Calling the police because two people are sitting at a table, not ordering anything? Absolutely insane. Putting people in a cell because they didn't order a coffee? Completely, utterly hysterical behaviour. The fact that the same would apparently not have happened to white customers is the reason for the outcry.

Ireland is not America. People here tend to comply with reasonable requests from staff or police

In America to not do so is seen as a big escalation.

One if the arresting cops was black and the woman who called them is Asian.

People are flat out trying to make it a race crime.

Danzy · 19-04-2018 01:13PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yeah.....if you are going to be a bit sensationalist and post the "real story" you should post a longer video rather than imply that the manager hit a "black person came in" panic buzzer under the counter when the men arrived followed by the instant deployment of a rapid reaction hit team to get them out of there

That's at least 7 minutes that they were arguing with the cops before the cops had to arrest them. What else could the cops do? They had been called to remove trespassers from private property. If the dickheads wanted to stay they could have purchased a small drink at any point in time. Entitled dickheads piggybacking off people who actually suffer discrimination

The dickheads cost her her job and they'll profit for having the rules applied to them and treating others like **** on their shoe.

It is fucjed up.

AllForIt · 19-04-2018 01:21PM

Does anyone know how long they were sitting there before the staff member asked them to leave?

It is not unusual for 1 person to come into a venue to wait for someone before purchasing something but as someone who has worked in catering for years I can't ever recall 2 ppl waiting for a 3rd to arrive before they start.

If it was the case that they were waiting longer than they were expecting and they had been there for over 10 minutes the right thing for them to do was buy their coffee. That's what I would have done if I noticed the staff giving me the eye or saw other customers looking for a table if it was busy.

Hector Savage · 19-04-2018 01:55PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Jaysus, I need to spell this out.

If there is someone capable of delivering a half day course to prevent racial discrimination, then maybe it should not be given to just Starbucks staff and should be delivered to everyone. This is the wider audience I speak of.

Again, I am mocking this so called course that is going to solve racial discrimination in half a day.

Apologies .... I'm embarrased for myself now ...

Skyfloater · 19-04-2018 02:01PM

The most shocking thing here was the spinelessness of the Starbucks CEO.

Chaos Tourist · 19-04-2018 02:09PM

AllForIt wrote: »

Does anyone know how long they were sitting there before the staff member asked them to leave?

It is not unusual for 1 person to come into a venue to wait for someone before purchasing something but as someone who has worked in catering for years I can't ever recall 2 ppl waiting for a 3rd to arrive before they start.

If it was the case that they were waiting longer than they were expecting and they had been there for over 10 minutes the right thing for them to do was buy their coffee. That's what I would have done if I noticed the staff giving me the eye or saw other customers looking for a table if it was busy.

That's exactly what I'd do in a similar situation, knowing full well staff are going to come over and ask me what do I want. It stops being awkward.

If only they had thought of that and all this nonsense would have never happened.

Imagine being filmed getting arrested at a starbucks and then it's posted online.

Talk about being made a show of.

Boom_Bap · 19-04-2018 02:19PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Apologies .... I'm embarrased for myself now ...

Let's hug it out

pleas advice · 19-04-2018 02:41PM

lawred2 wrote: »

gotta be woke!

what does that mean?

Quadruple machiattos

vetinari · 19-04-2018 04:02PM

Wow, this thread is a classic of example of some people not wanting to ever see racism.
The two men themselves claim that they were only in the store for 2 minutes when the 911 call was placed.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-men-speak-out-starbucks-arrest_us_5ad8809fe4b0e4d0715dc393

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-04-2018 04:08PM

Keep them closed too please.

Maxpfizer · 19-04-2018 05:31PM

vetinari wrote: »

Wow, this thread is a classic of example of some people not wanting to ever see racism.
The two men themselves claim that they were only in the store for 2 minutes when the 911 call was placed.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-men-speak-out-starbucks-arrest_us_5ad8809fe4b0e4d0715dc393

Or it's a classic example of people wanting to see racism where there is none.

There are a few things I have trouble with here.

Surely this branch of Starbucks has served non-white people before and has had non-white people using their establishment before? So why suddenly now and why suddenly these 2 lads in particular? Like, if it's a race thing then wouldn't they have had this as an ongoing issue rather than a weirdly selective one off event?

I've seen people getting turfed out of places in Dublin before from McDonalds and Boots and M&S. Those people were white and I am sure they would say they were just standing or sitting doing nothing but there's no race angle there so nobody really gives a crap that people are being asked to leave, sometimes for no good reason.

Starbucks fired the person who called the cops but if this was a busy Starbucks then I can say with almost 100% certainty (cos I've worked in a busy Starbucks before) that the management will have told employees that if customers aren't buying anything then they can't use the jacks and they can't use the seats and they have to leave.

The logic behind this is that if a couple of people come in looking to have a sit down, a couple of coffees and a cookie and the place is super busy they will do an about turn and walk out the door. If the reason the seats are all taken is because there are non-paying guests taking up seats then it's a loss for Starbucks to have people paying zero dollars occupying seats that people willing to pay x dollars would have otherwise sat in.

So if 2 young Irish lads in Dublin go to Starbucks are asked to buy something, refuse to leave and are then forced to leave it's not a race issue because they are white. If the lads just refused to leave then the guards would be called, for sure. It's still not a race issue because that's common sense.

Transfer that situation to the USA and make the lads non-white and suddenly you have national outrage over a "racist" incident.

Sure they were only in the place for 2 seconds and the cops showed up.

Sure white people get to just sit there for hours buying nothing.

Where is the racism here though?

If the Starbucks policy was "whites only" then you'd see the point right but this is Philadelphia. A city where 43.4% of the population is non-white.

Given the demographics of the city, this branch of Starbucks has probably been serving people of many different races for years. Yet for some reason they just decided to let their mask slip and reveal their racism for a brief moment in April 2018.

Or is it more likely that the lads came in and occupied space while refusing to buy anything, the management asked them to make a purchase or leave, the lads refused, the staff asked again, the lads refused, the cops were called, the lads refused to leave and the rest is history?

It's not racism when it happens to 2 Irish lads in Dublin (and it does happen) but if it happens to 2 African-Americans in Philadelphia it's totally racist?

OK.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-04-2018 05:35PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

There have also been protests at that Starbucks store along with many around the US since this happened.

It's essentially been closed as nobody is going in, so closing it officially for half a day of training is no big deal.

I just wonder how racism can be removed from their employees over the course of a few hours.
They should really give the course to a wider audience.

Isn't almost as if they want to be living back in the 60s or something. They want be part of history maaaaaaan.

This kind of toxic attitude leads to fabrication of 'racist' events in an attempt to race bait and create tension and division.

Beanntraigheach · 19-04-2018 05:40PM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. We seldom, if ever, see or hear the same sort of stories about white men. Yet we come across so many instances of innocent black men being arrested, beaten up or shot dead by the police in the US.

There really seems to be very little doubt that the police in the US react very differently to members of the public based upon skin colour.

Because nobody in the world would have given a shíte had they been two white men.

jmayo · 19-04-2018 05:54PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

OP has messed this up.

Real story:

2 black guys sat down in a Starbucks in Philadelphia. They didn't order anything. They said they were waiting for a friend. Starbucks called the cops on them. The cops ordered them to leave. The two guys said that this was unreasonable. Friend finally shows up (he's white btw). Friend says "that's it, we're leaving". Cops say "too late, they were given their chance" and arrest them.
...

Ah FFS if that is true and the claim that they sat there for an hour, didn't order a thing and then wanted to use the loo then feck them.

See how far that would get you in Ireland if you went into a pub/cafe and sat there for an hour and refused to order.

Did they have Cavan or Scottish roots by any chance

Then again they must bee eejits to go in there in the first place.
All it has is over priced homogenised muck.

bubblypop wrote: »

It's a training day.
Their coffee is muck anyway

Well we agree on something at least.

JohnMc1 · 19-04-2018 05:59PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Now, why not just directly question the employee(s) responsible for giving access to one customer and not the other?

That makes too much sense for the Modern Left wing. Got to be as ridiculous as possible for maximum virtue signalling.

Maxpfizer · 19-04-2018 05:59PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Isn't almost as if they want to be living back in the 60s or something. They want be part of history maaaaaaan.

This kind of toxic attitude leads to fabrication of 'racist' events in an attempt to race bait and create tension and division.

That's a disturbing aspect of the US that people often turn away from.

Yes there is a lot, A LOT, of racism across the country. Yes they have significant problems arising from a horrendous history of quite shocking racism that still persists today.

Unfortunately you also have a, less serious, issue with people using race to stoke divisions and this mostly seems done for personal gain. Race baiting, basically.

The problem people seem to have is identifying which is which.

Looking at this situation, the outrage directed Starbucks and the people making the loudest noise about it, you have to wonder.

Kivaro · 19-04-2018 06:06PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

This kind of toxic attitude leads to fabrication of 'racist' events in an attempt to race bait and create tension and division.

It was inevitable that an incident like this was going to happen.
I avoided Starbucks over in the States, especially in larger cities, because many times ghetto thugs or the homeless would use it as a base. They'd come in and take up seating, stay there for ages, and not order anything, with some of them asking staff for (free) ice water. Other times they would bring in their own cups and use the milk, honey and sweeteners that are put out for customers.
Most customers would accept all of that, but many times these characters would eventually start trouble with customers or wreck the toilets.
Starbuck staff were usually reluctant to ask them to leave because of the race factor.

This whole incident in Los Angeles sounds like a setup and/or a shakedown for money. It's a sad state of affairs that because 'race' is brought up, the white-owned business is immediately at fault.

Thread title sucks by the way.

Potential-Monke · 19-04-2018 06:08PM

I see absolutely nothing wrong with what happened. Plenty of sources saying they were there about an hour. They didn't order anything so they were trespassing as the staff asked them to leave. They refused. Cops were called. Cops asked them to leave numerous times, as they are legally obliged to when they get a call for trespassing, they refused to leave, they got arrested. Couldn't care less if it was black lads or white lads, they broke the laws (trespass and failure to comply) and got arrested. Starbucks completely over-reacted and I hope that staff member who was fired does them for unfair dismissal, considering she was following company procedure.

19-04-2018 06:15PM

Wouldn't be surprised if this was all just a stunt

fatknacker · 19-04-2018 06:16PM

If anything, they should have arrested the friend for being an hour late.
I can't tolerate tardiness.

vetinari · 19-04-2018 06:59PM

Can people who are claiming they were there for an hour post a source for that?
Most sources are saying they were there for 2 minutes.

vetinari · 19-04-2018 07:03PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Or it's a classic example of people wanting to see racism where there is none.

There are a few things I have trouble with here.

Surely this branch of Starbucks has served non-white people before and has had non-white people using their establishment before? So why suddenly now and why suddenly these 2 lads in particular? Like, if it's a race thing then wouldn't they have had this as an ongoing issue rather than a weirdly selective one off event?

I've seen people getting turfed out of places in Dublin before from McDonalds and Boots and M&S. Those people were white and I am sure they would say they were just standing or sitting doing nothing but there's no race angle there so nobody really gives a crap that people are being asked to leave, sometimes for no good reason.

Starbucks fired the person who called the cops but if this was a busy Starbucks then I can say with almost 100% certainty (cos I've worked in a busy Starbucks before) that the management will have told employees that if customers aren't buying anything then they can't use the jacks and they can't use the seats and they have to leave.

The logic behind this is that if a couple of people come in looking to have a sit down, a couple of coffees and a cookie and the place is super busy they will do an about turn and walk out the door. If the reason the seats are all taken is because there are non-paying guests taking up seats then it's a loss for Starbucks to have people paying zero dollars occupying seats that people willing to pay x dollars would have otherwise sat in.

So if 2 young Irish lads in Dublin go to Starbucks are asked to buy something, refuse to leave and are then forced to leave it's not a race issue because they are white. If the lads just refused to leave then the guards would be called, for sure. It's still not a race issue because that's common sense.

Transfer that situation to the USA and make the lads non-white and suddenly you have national outrage over a "racist" incident.

Sure they were only in the place for 2 seconds and the cops showed up.

Sure white people get to just sit there for hours buying nothing.

Where is the racism here though?

If the Starbucks policy was "whites only" then you'd see the point right but this is Philadelphia. A city where 43.4% of the population is non-white.

Given the demographics of the city, this branch of Starbucks has probably been serving people of many different races for years. Yet for some reason they just decided to let their mask slip and reveal their racism for a brief moment in April 2018.

Or is it more likely that the lads came in and occupied space while refusing to buy anything, the management asked them to make a purchase or leave, the lads refused, the staff asked again, the lads refused, the cops were called, the lads refused to leave and the rest is history?

It's not racism when it happens to 2 Irish lads in Dublin (and it does happen) but if it happens to 2 African-Americans in Philadelphia it's totally racist?

OK.

Do people just turn off their cognitive functions when it comes to racism?
Like if someone burning a white cross out in the street or putting up whites only signs then it's not racism. There are multiple issues with this situation.

Would a white couple have the following happen to them?
1) Denied use of the bathroom before buying something? (I live in Boston, have never had that happen to me, they assume I will be buying something. This lady probably assumed that the two guys wouldn't be buying something)
2) A 911 call made after 2 minutes because they sat down in a coffee shop without ordering.
3) The police deciding to arrest them anyways even when they said they were leaving

This type of rapid escalation tends to happen for black people.
It doesn't for white people.

runawaybishop · 19-04-2018 07:07PM

vetinari wrote: »

Can people who are claiming they were there for an hour post a source for that?
Most sources are saying they were there for 2 minutes.

They were asked to leave a few minutes after they came in as they didn't buy anything and wanted to use the toilets. It took the cops some time to get there and they spoke to the two men for 10/15 minutes also before arresting them. They had several opportunities to become customers but refused and also argued with the cops, afaik they also belittled the cops earnings and/or knowledge of the law.

Joe prim · 19-04-2018 07:11PM

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

They lady looks Latino so not sure if she would be Racist.

Maybe your man had told them he was bursting for a slash and will buy from them after he does this.

No proof of what actually happened, your man could look homeless for all we know.

Pure ****e trying to prove a pure ****e point

Latino(a)s, Blacks and Asians, as well as Muslims, are usually genetically incapable of being racist-FACT. White people more or less invented it and practice it as well.

Maxpfizer · 19-04-2018 07:27PM

vetinari wrote: »

Would a white couple have the following happen to them?
1) Denied use of the bathroom before buying something? (I live in Boston, have never had that happen to me, they assume I will be buying something. This lady probably assumed that the two guys wouldn't be buying something)
2) A 911 call made after 2 minutes because they sat down in a coffee shop without ordering.
3) The police deciding to arrest them anyways even when they said they were leaving

This type of rapid escalation tends to happen for black people.
It doesn't for white people.

1 - Yes. Sometimes the management of the store will insist on this and it's a choice between getting grief from the public for not letting them use the jacks or getting grief from management for letting non customers use the jacks. Sorry.

2 - A 999 call, yes, but not after only 2 minutes (I suppose the length of time one waits to call the cops is a measure of ones racism?). Most often a call to the local station and if it happens several times the guards will say if it happens again then call 999 instead of risking a bad situation (potential assault etc). Again, still talking about white people here.

3 - Yes. I have seen arrests made but again it was white people being arrested (as tends to be the case in Ireland).

Have you ever worked in retail? Have you ever been in places where people have been asked to leave because they are not customers and have you ever seen what happens when refusal to leave causes things to escalate?

Just pointing out that I am talking about Ireland here where people are kicked out of establishments, asked to leave establishments and removed by the cops and more often than not those people are white.

Hell, you should see the way white people are treated on the LUAS over here!

So you take these situations and move them across the Atlantic and if you're non-white and this stuff happens it's just racism.

I love the logic here too:

I go into places and use the jacks.
They let me do it.
I am white.
So all white people are allowed to do it.

Starbucks have never asked me to leave.
I am white.
Starbucks asked 2 black lads to leave.
Starbucks are racist.

Sooo... 2 questions.

In your opinion, do Starbucks ask ALL non-whites to leave their stores if they didn't buy anything or just these specific guys?

Have Starbucks EVER ejected a white person for hanging out in their shop without buying anything?

If you can't answer the questions definitively then how can you cry "Racism"?

Maxpfizer · 19-04-2018 08:17PM

vetinari wrote: »

Do people just turn off their cognitive functions when it comes to racism?

I don't have much time and I wanted to address this too and run a few things past you if you would indulge me.

Regarding cognitive function.

When reading the Starbucks story there is a big exclamation point that stands out to me.

How can a coffee shop that must serve plenty of non-white people every single day suddenly drop all of that to focus on these 2 guys specifically?

So that's what goes off in my head. Like the manager there must have been serving black folks all day long for weeks and weeks with a "how can I help you" and a "have a nice day" and then suddenly these 2 lads come in and racism randomly rears it's head.

I'm not saying that the situation 100% wasn't fueled by racism but surely you can see the "something about this doesn't make sense" part of my cognitive functioning here?

Now, you have to factor personal experience into that. I have worked for the company and have worked plenty of other retail jobs. I have witnessed, with my own two eyes, white people being ejected, being asked to leave, being removed by guards and being refused access to toilets. I've seen a fair few "toilets are for customer use only" signs in my time. Granted these experiences are localised to a predominantly white part of Europe but that's what gets the old brain ticking right?

Move these situations to the USA and change the ethnicity of the people involved and you have a racism outrage on your hands.

Looking at the USA and racism you for sure have racist cops and a racist history but you also have curious situations like the OJ Simpson trial. Hmmm.

So back to cognitive function, or lack thereof.

There are two possibilities, I suppose. I am either deliberately trying to ignore racism, for some reason. Or, you are trying to find racism for some reason.

I say I am simply looking at the situation and saying hang on some things don't add up. I have laid this out clearly enough above.

You've already jumped straight to Racism! Maybe I'll get there eventually. Maybe I won't.

Here is my argument. The nature of outrage has caused you to actually abandon your normal cognitive functions because there is some payoff to embracing the outrage.

Think about that. It makes sense doesn't it?

I am saying "well there's a few things screaming out to me here" and you are saying "to hell with that IT'S RACISM".

To me, I am seeing myself as the rational one. Balancing up the possibilities. Considering the few facts we do have. I see it as using common sense.

From my perspective you are aiming for a racism conclusion and zooming past valid, logical, arguments to get there.

How are you seeing it? That I just want to deny Racism exists? To what end? I don't live in the US and this an anonymous message board.

That's me engaging my cognitive functions and asking questions that I think are relevant and looking at it in a way I find interesting and measured.

Do you not wonder if you are actually the one who is allowing whatever you get out of the Twitter outrage to give yourself permission to just be maybe a wee bit irrational on this occasion? Maybe let your cognitive function take a wee back seat while you engage in righteous indignation? Maybe because it feels good?

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/01/moral-outrage-is-self-serving

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/domestic-intelligence/201803/the-dangerous-pleasures-outrage

Or maybe I'm really just a big dumb dumb who wants to ignore obvious racism?

vetinari · 19-04-2018 10:01PM

Some people just never want to see anything as racist.
As I said before, racism today isn't burning crosses and whites only signs.
A large part of it is being under extra suspicion because of the color of your skin.
Instinctively this is completely alien if you look the same as the people who are in control of a country.

I'm quite confident saying the owner wouldn't have called the police if they were white.

JupiterKid · 19-04-2018 10:16PM

Pity they aren't closing down for good.

Starbucks' coffee is muck!

8,000 Starbucks outlets closing because of racism.

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