The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

pitifulgod · 17-04-2018 09:45AM

horseburger wrote: »

He said I wasn't fooling anyone. What do you suppose he meant by that other than insinuate I was one of the people who hopped onto boards to post during the marriage referendum and voted no?

He stated this "Throughout the SSM marriage campaign, boards was visited by many, many posters who were not against same-sex marriage and had no problems with the gays, sure one of their friends owns a pink shirt, but sadly, they had to vote No because the yes campaign was so gay and offensive and in their face all the time."

What else do you think he was insinuating?

He was saying that you're a person that is pro life who is pretending to be open minded on the topic while posting pro life material. And people did the exact same during the marriage referendum. It's parallels rather than saying you opposed marriage referendum.

ELM327 · 17-04-2018 09:47AM

horseburger wrote: »

Well not everyone agrees with you

https://community.babycenter.com/post/a27596905/if_youre_pregnant_are_you_a_mom_poll

Is a pregnant woman a mother and should she be acknowledged on Mother's Day?

Is a pregnant woman a mother and should she be acknowledged on Mother's Day?
Yes she is and yes she should be.
359

Technically yes, she's a mother. But she shouldn't expect anything for Mother's Day.
112

She's not a mother and shouldn't be acknowledged on Mother's Day.
68

Total Votes: 539 Please login in to cast your vote

Wow, a poll of 500 people.
On an American website.
That's representative of 2018 Ireland

NuMarvel · 17-04-2018 09:47AM

horseburger wrote: »

He said I wasn't fooling anyone. What do you suppose he meant by that other than insinuate I was one of the people who hopped onto boards to post during the marriage referendum and voted no?

He stated this "Throughout the SSM marriage campaign, boards was visited by many, many posters who were not against same-sex marriage and had no problems with the gays, sure one of their friends owns a pink shirt, but sadly, they had to vote No because the yes campaign was so gay and offensive and in their face all the time."

What else do you think he was insinuating?

It is abundantly clear from the rest of his post that he is saying you are engaging in similar behaviour, not that you voted one way or the other:

Those people were always going to vote No, they just wanted to shift the blame for their intolerance to the other side.

Likewise here you are posting absolute walls of prolife talking points and videos while pretending that you are on the fence and now threatening to vote No if we aren't super nice to you.

Zubes made no reference to your vote in the 2015 referendum, because it isn't relevant. What's relevant is that you are behaving in a manner similar to some No voters in that referendum as explained by Zubes above.

horseburger · 17-04-2018 09:48AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Wow, a poll of 500 people.
On an American website.
That's representative of 2018 Ireland

It doesn't really matter how many took part, the point is nor everyone goes along with the claim made.

Ave Sodalis · 17-04-2018 09:49AM

pitifulgod wrote: »

He was saying that you're a person that is pro life who is pretending to be open minded on the topic while posting pro life material. And people did the exact same during the marriage referendum. It's parallels rather than saying you opposed marriage referendum.

To be honest, given the way he's been treating my post, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the poster knew this but continues to misrepresent it anyway.

B0jangles · 17-04-2018 09:49AM

horseburger wrote: »

Christ above.

Do you seriously believe that if Ronan Mullen or Danny Healy Rae had said it that they would not have been accused of disrespect and sexism and devaluing women?

What?

The only way this sentence makes any sense is if you think becoming a mother inherently increases a woman's value.

A person who is pregnant is not a mother, she is an 'expectant mother' (or simply 'a pregnant woman', or however else she prefers to refer to herself) until the pregnancy ends and the baby is born.

Do we call men whose partners are pregnant 'fathers' or 'expectant fathers' or 'fathers-to-be'?

horseburger · 17-04-2018 09:51AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

It is abundantly clear from the rest of his post that he is saying you are engaging in similar behaviour, not that you voted one way or the other:

Zubes made no reference to your vote in the 2015 referendum, because it isn't relevant. What's relevant is that you are behaving in a manner similar to some No voters in that referendum as explained by Zubes above.

I am asking questions of the arguments being made about abortion.

Is that wrong?

horseburger · 17-04-2018 09:54AM

B0jangles wrote: »

What?

The only way this sentence makes any sense is if you think becoming a mother inherently increases a woman's value.

A person who is pregnant is not a mother, she is an 'expectant mother' until the pregnancy ends and the baby is born.

Do we call men whose partners are pregnant 'fathers' or 'expectant fathers' or 'fathers-to-be'?

Isn't the difference there that the father doesn't have a living being growing inside him?

Anyway you are avoiding the point which is why didn't she receive any criticism, considering if it had been stated by Ronan Mullen you can be sure he'd get criticized.

captbarnacles · 17-04-2018 09:55AM

Women who had had miscarriages but no other children are now mothers according to this. Interesting but I advise not trying to explain this to one of those.

horseburger · 17-04-2018 09:56AM

B0jangles wrote: »

What?

The only way this sentence makes any sense is if you think becoming a mother inherently increases a woman's value.

A person who is pregnant is not a mother, she is an 'expectant mother' (or simply 'a pregnant woman', or however else she prefers to refer to herself) until the pregnancy ends and the baby is born.

Do we call men whose partners are pregnant 'fathers' or 'expectant fathers' or 'fathers-to-be'?

I like the way you use the phrase "pregnancy ends and baby is born", indicating that the ending of a pregnancy is not an accurate phrase with which to reference abortion.

B0jangles · 17-04-2018 09:56AM

horseburger wrote: »

Isn't the difference there that the father doesn't have a living being growing inside him?

Anyway you are avoiding the point which is why didn't she receive any criticism, considering if it had been stated by Ronan Mullen you can be sure he'd get criticized.

It is a difference certainly, it is not the only difference - the major difference that they share is neither person is a parent until the pregnancy ends and the child is born.

lazygal · 17-04-2018 09:58AM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Women who had had miscarriages but no other children are now mothers according to this. Interesting but I advise not trying to explain this to one of those.

People can call themselves mothers if they want.
I didn't call myself a mother until my first child was born. I was and still am not solely a mother. No one has to describe themselves as per a constitutional definition.

pitifulgod · 17-04-2018 09:59AM

horseburger wrote: »

Isn't the difference there that the father doesn't have a living being growing inside him?

Anyway you are avoiding the point which is why didn't she receive any criticism, considering if it had been stated by Ronan Mullen you can be sure he'd get criticized.

Are you still pretending to be open to a discussion? I imagine Ronan Mullen tends to get more flack because he effectively represents religious orders more so than the actual public. This includes sexist jabs and offensive remarks with the full knowledge he's causing offence.

horseburger · 17-04-2018 09:59AM

B0jangles wrote: »

It is a difference certainly, it is not the only difference - the major difference that they share is neither person is a parent until the pregnancy ends and the child is born.

Well I think that view is disrespectful not to consider that the pregnant woman is a mother because of the way the pregnancy changes the routine and circumstances.

baylah17 · 17-04-2018 10:00AM

horseburger wrote: »

Isn't the difference there that the father doesn't have a living being growing inside him?

Anyway you are avoiding the point which is why didn't she receive any criticism, considering if it had been stated by Ronan Mullen you can be sure he'd get criticized.

How many times do you need it explained , a fetus is NOT a living human being.
Get over it and move on.

ELM327 · 17-04-2018 10:01AM

horseburger wrote: »

It doesn't really matter how many took part, the point is nor everyone goes along with the claim made.

Yes, of 500 americans, some agreed with you.
That doesn't help your position. May as well post that some Saudis are anti-repeal.

baylah17 wrote: »

A pregnant woman does not become a mother merely through pregnancy, to become a mother a woman must give birth.
Its a quite simple fact really.

+1
I don't know how many more strawmen the No side can put on the table.

B0jangles · 17-04-2018 10:02AM

horseburger wrote: »

I like the way you use the phrase "pregnancy ends and baby is born", indicating that the ending of a pregnancy is not an accurate phrase with which to reference abortion.

For a person who is keen to seek out truth, you are extraordinarily quick to attempt twist to people's words.

I was attempting (possibly clumsily, and if so I apologise to anyone I've unintentionally hurt) to include situations in which wanted pregnancies end in stillbirth.

horseburger · 17-04-2018 10:02AM

baylah17 wrote: »

How many times do you need it explained , a fetus is NOT a living human being.
Get over it and move on.

I take it you believe it just starts living after 9 months in the womb.

What could it be only human, a human foetus, that it is created by two other separate humans?

baylah17 · 17-04-2018 10:03AM

pitifulgod wrote: »

Are you still pretending to be open to a discussion? I imagine Ronan Mullen tends to get more flack because he effectively represents religious orders more so than the actual public. This includes sexist jabs and offensive remarks with the full knowledge he's causing offence.

Yup

The same prick who abused Savitas memory by claiming she never wanted to be pregnant!!!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ronan-mullen-strongly-criticised-for-comments-on-savita-1.3262015

“If there was abortion on demand she wouldn’t have been in the hospital because she wouldn’t have been pregnant and she wouldn’t have been having a miscarriage.”

Zubeneschamali · 17-04-2018 10:03AM

lazygal wrote: »

The constitution calls every pregnant person a mother.

Only in the 8th amendment, in the idiotic text we are about to delete.

Sofiztikated · 17-04-2018 10:04AM

horseburger wrote: »

Anyway you are avoiding the point which is why didn't she receive any criticism, considering if it had been stated by Ronan Mullen you can be sure he'd get criticized.

He didn't say it, and he's not getting abuse, so it's a non argument.

So, seeing as you're on the fence (Hah.) What do you see as the arguments in favour of Repeal?

horseburger · 17-04-2018 10:05AM

B0jangles wrote: »

For a person who is keen to seek out truth, you are extraordinarily quick to attempt twist to people's words.

I was attempting (possibly clumsily, and if so I apologise to anyone I've unintentionally hurt) to include situations in which wanted pregnancies end in stillbirth.

Was I supposed to know you were referencing stillbirths when you didn't mention it?

Zubeneschamali · 17-04-2018 10:05AM

horseburger wrote: »

Well I think that view is disrespectful not to consider that the pregnant woman is a mother because of the way the pregnancy changes the routine and circumstances.

Have you ever spoken to a pregnant woman?

baylah17 · 17-04-2018 10:05AM

horseburger wrote: »

I take it you believe it just starts living after 9 months in the womb.

What could it be only human, a human foetus, that it is created by two other separate humans?

It has the potential, and only the potential, for human life until it reaches the sate of viable life outside of the host human.

B0jangles · 17-04-2018 10:05AM

horseburger wrote: »

Well I think that view is disrespectful not to consider that the pregnant woman is a mother because of the way the pregnancy changes the routine and circumstances.

A pregnant person is not a mother, she is a pregnant person.

Why on earth would anyone consider it disrespectful to call her that, unless they think being pregnant is somehow less worthy of respect than being a mother?

B0jangles · 17-04-2018 10:07AM

horseburger wrote: »

Was I supposed to know you were referencing stillbirths when you didn't mention it?

So you didn't know what I meant, so you just made up your own weird interpretation and ran with it instead of asking for clarification.

Edward M · 17-04-2018 10:08AM

B0jangles wrote: »

It is a difference certainly, it is not the only difference - the major difference that they share is neither person is a parent until the pregnancy ends and the child is born.

I wouldn't agree with that, though that is open to interpretation.
This is a helpful link for prospective parents, even before considering having a baby.
https://psychcentral.com/lib/are-you-ready-to-be-a-parent/
Personally I feel if someone has conceived at all, regardless of what decision they make on the pregnancy, they make those decisions as a parent, and are entitled to call themselves a parent, man or woman.

horseburger · 17-04-2018 10:09AM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

He didn't say it, and he's not getting abuse, so it's a non argument.

So, seeing as you're on the fence (Hah.) What do you see as the arguments in favour of Repeal?

The issue is that he would

Wasn't Mattie McGrath recently accused of calling Catherine Noone fat, when all he did was use a well known phrase talking about discussions not having been completed.

As in "it ain't over till the fat lady sings"

Here's an item

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mattie-mcgrath-criticised-for-fat-lady-sings-abortion-comments-1.3325859?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fmattie-mcgrath-criticised-for-fat-lady-sings-abortion-comments-1.3325859

He got 'slammed' for it

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/politicians-slam-td-mattie-mcgraths-bizarre-fat-lady-comments-about-senator-noone-36405136.html

Ave Sodalis · 17-04-2018 10:11AM

horseburger wrote: »

The issue is that he would

Wasn't Mattie McGrath recently accused of calling Catherine Noone fat, when all he did was use a well known phrase talking about discussions not having been completed.

As in "it ain't over till the fat lady sings"

Here's an item

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mattie-mcgrath-criticised-for-fat-lady-sings-abortion-comments-1.3325859?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fmattie-mcgrath-criticised-for-fat-lady-sings-abortion-comments-1.3325859

He got 'slammed' for it

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/politicians-slam-td-mattie-mcgraths-bizarre-fat-lady-comments-about-senator-noone-36405136.html

What on earth has that got to do with anything?

lazygal · 17-04-2018 10:11AM

horseburger wrote: »

The issue is that he would

Wasn't Mattie McGrath recently accused of calling Catherine Noone fat, when all he did was use a well known phrase talking about discussions not having been completed.

As in "it ain't over till the fat lady sings"

Here's an item

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mattie-mcgrath-criticised-for-fat-lady-sings-abortion-comments-1.3325859?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fmattie-mcgrath-criticised-for-fat-lady-sings-abortion-comments-1.3325859

He got 'slammed' for it

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/politicians-slam-td-mattie-mcgraths-bizarre-fat-lady-comments-about-senator-noone-36405136.html

He got slammed cos he's an arsehole.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Comments