Is the new Feminist movement damaging male female relationships?

silverharp · 17-04-2018 09:54AM

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm a feminist. I've a 23 yr relationship with a man, my best mate is male, never had any issues with the guys I know, work with etc. Am I doing something wrong?

a generational difference perhaps? maybe the up an coming types are more entrenched and indoctronated

seamus · 17-04-2018 09:55AM

Grayson wrote: »

I have no idea what this post means. Is there something special about having a house in the burren? Is it a status thing I've never heard of?

MGTOW is code word for, "I've discovered that spending my life bending over backwards to try and get a ride is incredibly stressful, so I've stopped doing that". And then they celebrate it like they've discovered something new and innovative.

As a movement unfortunately it's been infested with sad angry men who believe that all women are just out to control men and suck them dry of money.

17-04-2018 09:55AM

seamus wrote: »

MGTOW is code word for, "I've discovered that spending my life bending over backwards to try and get a ride is incredibly stressful, so I've stopped doing that". And then they celebrate it like they've discovered something new and innovative.

As a movement unfortunately it's been infested with sad angry men who believe that all women are just out to control men and suck them dry of money.

I've heard if you go on their subreddit, the front page is all posts about women. Not much going their own way there

eviltwin · 17-04-2018 09:57AM

silverharp wrote: »

a generational difference perhaps? maybe the up an coming types are more entrenched and indoctronated

I'm not that old though. But yeah maybe that's it. I'm sure the older people thought we were fussing over nothing too, always the way ain't it.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz · 17-04-2018 09:59AM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Some of my best friends are women - they work in a very male dominated area of science and technology. Yes that is wrong - but they are changing things one day at a time and doing the work of real change and influence.

No it is not.

Expecting a 50/50 split is plain idiotic and short sighted. Stop trying to force equality of outcome. Let people do the jobs they want to do.

cloudatlas wrote: »

Jordan Peterson: Women need to be more masculine and more aggressive.

Women: okay then.

Men: NOOOOOH STOP.

Wat?

super_furry · 17-04-2018 09:59AM

bluewolf wrote: »

I've heard if you go on their subreddit, the front page is all posts about women. Not much going their own way there

They're bad but they're choirboys compared to the incels.

beefburrito · 17-04-2018 10:00AM

Grayson wrote: »

I have no idea what this post means. Is there something special about having a house in the burren? Is it a status thing I've never heard of?

Ha ha, it means if I married a femminists....I wouldn't have all that, I'd be in heart break hotel with dampness pissing down the walls and full of self pity and loathing..

I worked hard for it, ain't going to hand it over for the sake of someone who thinks their worth it...

eviltwin · 17-04-2018 10:02AM

beefburrito wrote: »

Ha ha, it means if I married a femminists....I wouldn't have all that, I'd be in heart break hotel with dampness pissing down the walls and full of self pity and loathing..

I worked hard for it, ain't going to hand it over for the sake of someone who thinks their worth it...

Why do you think that?

super_furry · 17-04-2018 10:02AM

These male MGTOW, Incel, PUA movements and the rest are much more damaging to male female relationships than feminism ever could be.

ChikiChiki · 17-04-2018 10:04AM

Men seem to be under attack these days. Many in the feminist movement just tar everyone with the same brush. Todays drivel from the journal below;

Rate my rape list: 'I'm angry at the silence of the men of Ireland' http://jrnl.ie/3959797

super_furry · 17-04-2018 10:06AM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Men seem to be under attack these days. Many in the feminist movement just tar everyone with the same brush. Todays drivel from the journal below;

Rate my rape list: 'I'm angry at the silence of the men of Ireland' http://jrnl.ie/3959797

Drivel? It's a piece written by the Executive Director of the Rape Crisis Network Ireland, who I dare say, know a fair deal more about rape than you.

I think this line particularly rings true here. "We can choose to look critically at how we are as men and women and other, at what we expect of ourselves and each other. We can transform to create a kinder, more respectful society for all, but only if we engage honestly and compassionately and not retreat into our rage and defensive indignation."

silverharp · 17-04-2018 10:07AM

super_furry wrote: »

These male MGTOW, Incel, PUA movements and the rest are much more damaging to male female relationships than feminism ever could be.

one is a reaction to another would be the easy way to look at it

beefburrito · 17-04-2018 10:14AM

eviltwin wrote: »

Why do you think that?

Because it's been alluded to twice, two long term relationships.

Broke up, was told the if they had moved in with me, and they were living with me long enough they'ed have entitled something...

I know most women aren't like that,he but there's clever minxes who due to bitterness would have no limits to how They'ed react...

kunst nugget · 17-04-2018 10:17AM

super_furry wrote: »

Drivel? It's a piece written by the Executive Director of the Rape Crisis Network Ireland, who I dare say, know a fair deal more about rape than you.

I think this line particularly rings true here. "We can choose to look critically at how we are as men and women and other, at what we expect of ourselves and each other. We can transform to create a kinder, more respectful society for all, but only if we engage honestly and compassionately and not retreat into our rage and defensive indignation."

She's angry at the silence of good men… If you were a man in the public eye would you comment on the school rape list or Belfast Rape Trial? I wouldn't in a million years because you'd be leaving yourself open to nothing but dog's abuse.

They're being silent not because they are trying to be complicit in a rape culture, they are staying silent to avoid the hassle that would be brought to bear on them. There's no way that any kind of open and honest debate can occur in the current climate.

kunst nugget · 17-04-2018 10:23AM

In terms of the original question, do I think that the feminist movement is damaging male female relationships? I would say no more than the MRA crowd and besides seeing it on here, I don't have any interaction with it on a day to day basis. I deactivated my facebook, don't use twitter, snapchat, instagram or any social media beyond whatsapp. I live in blissful ignorance and a lot of the nonsense floating around and get on with enjoying my life and my family an friends, both male and female and I put neither on a pedestal or in a ditch.

Zulu · 17-04-2018 10:26AM

If prominent men or indeed people in general weren't hounded by the twitterati mob for saying the wrong thing; if people weren't thrown to the wolves for making a bold comment that isn't "on message" then more people might speak out.

But while there exists a baying mob of ignorant totalitarians, while the pitchforks run unchecked, only a fool would speak their mind in case it was perceived to counter popular opinion.

Il Fascista · 17-04-2018 10:26AM

super_furry wrote: »

These male MGTOW, Incel, PUA movements and the rest are much more damaging to male female relationships than feminism ever could be.

How do you rationalize groups who have little to no power having a bigger influence than a group that has massive power?

Boom_Bap · 17-04-2018 10:27AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

She's angry at the silence of good men… If you were a man in the public eye would you comment on the school rape list or Belfast Rape Trial? I wouldn't in a million years because you'd be leaving yourself open to nothing but dog's abuse.

They're being silent not because they are trying to be complicit in a rape culture, they are staying silent to avoid the hassle that would be brought to bear on them. There's no way that any kind of open and honest debate can occur in the current climate.

I see alot of this. It's a case of not listening to what you have said, but looking for what you have left out and picking up on that as a rebuttal.

meeeeh · 17-04-2018 10:30AM

beefburrito wrote: »

Because it's been alluded to twice, two long term relationships.

Broke up, was told the if they had moved in with me, and they were living with me long enough they'ed have entitled something...

I know most women aren't like that,he but there's clever minxes who due to bitterness would have no limits to how They'ed react...

That's it, better avoid women, they might eat you alive.

17-04-2018 10:33AM

Well thanks for that advice. But sadly your opinion is just that. Your opinion. You think feminism is a good thing, I think that feminism is a bad thing. And having a differing opinion on the Belfast trial and/or the Repeal referendum is not anti woman, regardless of what you may think. To be shouted down as a woman hater for having a different opinion is oppressive but even worse, it shuts down any possibility of open and honest dialogue.

But sure, that's just me speaking from my privileged cross I suppose

kunst nugget · 17-04-2018 10:37AM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I see alot of this. It's a case of not listening to what you have said, but looking for what you have left out and picking up on that as a rebuttal.

Just to clarify, it's not just feminists attacking you. I could say something and be seen as a misogynistic arsehole on one side and a virtue-signaling libtard prick by the other.

beefburrito · 17-04-2018 10:46AM

seamus wrote: »

MGTOW is code word for, "I've discovered that spending my life bending over backwards to try and get a ride is incredibly stressful, so I've stopped doing that". And then they celebrate it like they've discovered something new and innovative.

As a movement unfortunately it's been infested with sad angry men who believe that all women are just out to control men and suck them dry of money.

The same can be said for some femminists....

beefburrito · 17-04-2018 10:49AM

There's nothing wrong with a man who's going their own way, it's OK...

Some guy's accept they are a bit bitter and hurt.

It's all part of the healing process, women are entitled to be bitter, sad and lonely if they've been mistreated and put up with agaslighter alcoholic or narcissist...

But there's light at the end of the tunnel....

beefburrito · 17-04-2018 10:51AM

meeeeh wrote: »

That's it, better avoid women, they might eat you alive.

That's OK I can cope with that

Boom_Bap · 17-04-2018 10:51AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Just to clarify, it's not just feminists attacking you. I could say something and be seen as a misogynistic arsehole on one side and a virtue-signaling libtard prick by the other.

Agreed, and if you do get you arguments finely balanced, cover all the bases, there will be someone that questions the use of a certain word or turn of phrase :pac:

I'm all for healthy conversations and wanting to make progress. It's good that there are conversations and that people are talking. But I think that the conversations are not mature enough yet for the progress part.

Maxpfizer · 17-04-2018 10:51AM

I don't think so. At least not for the vast majority of people. Maybe it's tough for young lads in school or in universities etc but outside of those circles I don't think it comes up very much.

I don't even know if that many women refer to themselves, or even think of themselves, as Feminists. Even less would see themselves as Feminist activists.

Just looking at one "talking point" like the gender pay gap. I think a lot of the activism around this comes from people who are not in committed relationships or haven't ever been in one.

The reason why I say this is that for most people I know their relationship isn't divided into "his money" and "her money" but is seen as "OUR money". Couples go into things like buying a house and raising a child as partners and they want the best for each other.

So if the man is going for a promotion at work then his female partner isn't hoping that a woman gets the job because that will be another blow to the Patriarchy and a win for women. She wants her male partner to do the best they can for them, for their kids or their home or a new car or a nice vacation. That's probably the standard experience.

The "movement" doesn't damage male - female relationships because most people in a committed relationship do not give a care for "Men" and "Women" but are rather always thinking "what's best for us".

You think even the most stubborn "I believe her" activist would, while in a committed relationship, accept the imprisonment of their partner based on the testimony of some random woman? Especially when the testimony is highly questionable? No chance.

Most women will realise this once they are in a serious relationship. They don't want their partner to be overlooked for a promotion in favor of some woman and they don't want to give "women" the power to just be automatically believed over their partner.

I do wonder how many of the most vocal, extreme or prominent Feminist activists are people who simply do not have all that much life experience. A lot of the comments in the Belfast trial thread are just so naive and I feel like if the rugby lads were their sons or brothers etc then they would do a complete 180 on their views.

Maybe it would have an impact on people's ability to form and develop relationships though. That's possible.

kunst nugget · 17-04-2018 10:52AM

beefburrito wrote: »

But there's light at the end of the tunnel....

The crazy womens won't get your money?

FixdePitchmark · 17-04-2018 10:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well thanks for that advice. But sadly your opinion is just that. Your opinion. You think feminism is a good thing, I think that feminism is a bad thing. And having a differing opinion on the Belfast trial and/or the Repeal referendum is not anti woman, regardless of what you may think. To be shouted down as a woman hater for having a different opinion is oppressive but even worse, it shuts down any possibility of open and honest dialogue.

But sure, that's just me speaking from my privileged cross I suppose

This above sums up my view.

What is wrong with genuine opinions on the 8th - I think people have the right to go - I'm uncomfortable with abortion as a concept , I think it is a life.
People are entitled to have that opinion and have it respected. You can disagree with them - and that is fine. But they don't hate women.

Then on the rape trail - that was a narrative that all men need to change. It was a very disrespectful angle as I know 100s of incredibly decent men and what went on in that case - had no resemblance to the decent and good character of these men - all fathers, brothers, uncles, grandads, friends to women who love them.

The current climate is shutting down conversation and debate. Sad times. The extremes are defining the middle ground.

Wibbs · 17-04-2018 10:55AM

Grayson wrote: »

You're right. Women are the sexis ones who have been oppressing men for centuries.

Well, yes, though as usual it's more nuanced than that. If we look at the historical oppressed/oppressor angle in many cases it's people who have been oppressed by other people, just in different ways. EG in the west the average woman got the vote aorund or at the same time the average man did. The average man or woman was cheap labour, a bullet stopper, or a baby factory for more bullet stoppers and labourers and baby factories. The landed and merchant class woman had far more power than the peasant man or woman, something current "feminism" tends to ignore or deny outright. Well it doesn't suit their particular oppressed/oppressor angle, which is understandable. Though we can still see this in the present day. EG the top tiny percentage of elite men are regularly compared to the average woman. So there are cries for why aren't there more women CEO's, while ignoring that they represent a tiny percentage of men and ignoring that on average now in the West the average woman is better educated, better paid before kids come along and live longer healthier lives with more social support than the average man.

How often do I have to point out that one single story about women groping men in kilts does not illustrate a trend.

I'd agree with that alright. Do men get sexually assaulted? Hell yes, of course they do. Do they suffer from it at the rates women do? Hell no they don't.

Feminism is about equality.

This I would disagree with to some degree. By definition it's to do with promotion of women, which is fine, but latterly it has become more and more a polarised politic of victimhood and victimiser. I would have happily self described as a feminist twenty years ago, no way would I today. Not in its current and yes pretty mainstream form. I'd bet much that quite a few men and women would be similar. We'd be 100% behind the thumbnail sketch of what we think feminism represents, but would baulk at what it actually represents with a bit more reading on the matter. IMHO most of us are egalitarians not "feminists".

bluewolf wrote: »

I've heard if you go on their subreddit, the front page is all posts about women. Not much going their own way there

Do not get me started on the MGTOW types. I've only recently had a look at these "incel" types and Jesus wept... Again more victimhood ballsology. They're neck and neck with the worst of the tumblr feminists in the victimhood olympics.

FixdePitchmark · 17-04-2018 10:58AM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

I don't think so. At least not for the vast majority of people. Maybe it's tough for young lads in school or in universities etc but outside of those circles I don't think it comes up very much.

I don't even know if that many women refer to themselves, or even think of themselves, as Feminists. Even less would see themselves as Feminist activists.

Just looking at one "talking point" like the gender pay gap. I think a lot of the activism around this comes from people who are not in committed relationships or haven't ever been in one.

The reason why I say this is that for most people I know their relationship isn't divided into "his money" and "her money" but is seen as "OUR money". Couples go into things like buying a house and raising a child as partners and they want the best for each other.

So if the man is going for a promotion at work then his female partner isn't hoping that a woman gets the job because that will be another blow to the Patriarchy and a win for women. She wants her male partner to do the best they can for them, for their kids or their home or a new car or a nice vacation. That's probably the standard experience.

The "movement" doesn't damage male - female relationships because most people in a committed relationship do not give a care for "Men" and "Women" but are rather always thinking "what's best for us".

You think even the most stubborn "I believe her" activist would, while in a committed relationship, accept the imprisonment of their partner based on the testimony of some random woman? Especially when the testimony is highly questionable? No chance.

Most women will realise this once they are in a serious relationship. They don't want their partner to be overlooked for a promotion in favor of some woman and they don't want to give "women" the power to just be automatically believed over their partner.

I do wonder how many of the most vocal, extreme or prominent Feminist activists are people who simply do not have all that much life experience. A lot of the comments in the Belfast trial thread are just so naive and I feel like if the rugby lads were their sons or brothers etc then they would do a complete 180 on their views.

Maybe it would have an impact on people's ability to form and develop relationships though. That's possible.

Is the new Feminist movement damaging male female relationships?

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