Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

1…126127129131132…336

Comments

  • #3842
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Former Former wrote: »
    There is nothing that says the accusation was unfounded and nowhere is it said there was no uncertainty about consent.

    I'm genuinely worried at how many presumably grown adults have absolutely no understanding of the basic principles of the justice system.

    I think the polarisation around the perception of events has pushed people to some extremes but yeah, the vocal fringes of both sides are indulging in rhetoric that would genuinely worry you.

    I mostly blame the media for escalating this trial into a hate circus. They've loved every minute of this and don't care for a second that they've set sections of the population against each other.

    We are absolutely ripe for an extremist political movement, we've been lucky to date but the last year has proved to me that objectivity, critical thinking and a bit of self awareness are in despairingly short supply.


  • #3843
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Are you serious? They were in breach of their contracts. That's almost crystal clear at this stage. Contract revocation only happens when there's a breach. So you can guess all you like as to what constituted that breach, but it was nothing to do with the list you've provided.

    From the comments it is contract revocation by mutual consent. The comments from both of them and the slap on the wrist of Gilroy show that. Whether they got a payoff or just wanted out is a different story. If I was to guess it would be the former and unfortunately it was the right decision for them and probably the sport on the island


  • #3844
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Are you serious? They were in breach of their contracts. That's almost crystal clear at this stage. Contract revocation only happens when there's a breach. So you can guess all you like as to what constituted that breach, but it was nothing to do with the list you've provided.

    It's not crystal clear at all? I honestly think it's much, much more likely that a financial agreement has been reached and part of that agreement is the content of the various statements made by all parties.

    It allows everyone to save what little face they can and it's the optimal outcome for the IRFU.

    If Jackson and Olding aren't under a strict NDA at this point I would be absolutely astonished.


  • #3845
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,405 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not crystal clear at all? I honestly think it's much, much more likely that a financial agreement has been reached and part of that agreement is the content of the various statements made by all parties.

    It allows everyone to save what little face they can and it's the optimal outcome for the IRFU.

    If Jackson and Olding aren't under a strict NDA at this point I would be absolutely astonished.
    I would agree. But to get such an agreement you clearly have to have a strong case that there's been a breach. Otherwise it's a protracted fight and an uncertain outcome. Once you can make a case, the issue is to head off any chance of a legal battle, so you come to a financial agreement to prevent that.


  • #3846
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I would agree. But to get such an agreement you clearly have to have a strong case that there's been a breach. Otherwise it's a protracted fight and an uncertain outcome. Once you can make a case, the issue is to head off any chance of a legal battle, so you come to a financial agreement to prevent that.

    Not at all man, come on you can think through the permutations yourself. Jackson and Olding are screwed financially, Olding ran out of money half way through the trial. They probably can't afford another court case but their reputations certainly can't get much worse and taking an employer to court isn't going to help with future job prospects.

    They also might want to move on and get out of town for a few years. There is certainly grounds for dismissal for Ulster rugby, but it's not at all clear cut and there are plenty of avenues for the players to dispute this.

    I think the main thing to ask yourself is who wants this out of the media as fast as possible. Jackson and Olding whose reputations are already in ruins, or the IRFU?

    That should lead you to the most likely conclusion.


  • Advertisement
  • #3847
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,756 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Former Former wrote: »
    There is nothing that says the accusation was unfounded and nowhere is it said there was no uncertainty about consent.

    I'm genuinely worried at how many presumably grown adults have absolutely no understanding of the basic principles of the justice system.

    That they are presumed innocent, found not guilty, therefore remain innocent.
    Not guilty equates to innocent.

    The moment that verdict returned then there was no uncertainty


  • #3848
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,405 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not at all man, come on you can think through the permutations yourself. Jackson and Olding are screwed financially, Olding ran out of money half way through the trial. They probably can't afford another court case but their reputations certainly can't get much worse and taking an employer to court isn't going to help with future job prospects.

    They also might want to move on and get out of town for a few years. There is certainly grounds for dismissal for Ulster rugby, but it's not at all clear cut and there are plenty of avenues for the players to dispute this.

    I think the main thing to ask yourself is who wants this out of the media as fast as possible. Jackson and Olding whose reputations are already in ruins, or the IRFU?

    That should lead you to the most likely conclusion.
    If that were true, they would have been in a much more powerful position. In such a case is it actually likely that they would not fight for vindication? Instead of which they make fulsome apologies, allow the IRFU to say their contracts are revoked and walk away meekly.

    And are you suggesting that their contracts didn't have reputational clauses?

    Edit: The IRFU don't care if it's in the media if it's because they are taking a strong stance.


  • #3849
    launish116
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭launish116


    To kick Ulster when there down, Leinster are currently losing to Treviso


  • #3850
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Forgetting about the reasons or whatever, losing 2 international players is a massive blow to any province, considering Jackson was pushing Sexton as starting 10 and Olding can play so many positions it's an even bigger loss. Who do ye think ye can get to replace them? I'd be thinking Carbery would be a great fit as a replacement for Jackson, struggling to think of a replacement for Olding


  • #3851
    launish116
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭launish116


    Think we’ve already got Oldings replacement in Addison. Covers multiple possitions along the backline.


  • Advertisement
  • #3852
    CommandoJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭CommandoJack


    launish116 wrote: »
    Think we’ve already got Oldings replacement in Addison. Covers multiple possitions along the backline.
    Yep. Addison's also IQ so may well be keen on hanging around and developing for a couple of years, try to fill an Earls/Payne role in the Irish side.
    10's definitely harder to sort. If Cooney works on his passing a little then we've a fantastic 9 on our hands, even a halfway decent 10 would stand us in good stead, though obviously hoping for Carbery/Byrne/Madigan or similar.


  • #3853
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    If that were true, they would have been in a much more powerful position. In such a case is it actually likely that they would not fight for vindication? Instead of which they make fulsome apologies, allow the IRFU to say their contracts are revoked and walk away meekly.

    And are you suggesting that their contracts didn't have reputational clauses?

    Edit: The IRFU don't care if it's in the media if it's because they are taking a strong stance.

    If the IRFU make a big enough pay-off it makes perfect sense.

    Say the IRFU pay half the rest of their contract (or whatever amount) and they are then released and can go abroad to earn a nice salary on top of the payout away from a mob constantly calling for their heads.

    Their other option is to spend more money on a court case that would likely drag on with no guarantee of anything.

    It is the most logical thing for all parties and I'm happy they get a chance to move on. I do hope they have the money in their accounts before it eventually leaks to the media and the IRFU attempt to backtrack.


  • #3854
    launish116
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭launish116


    Leinster have just lost in Dublin to Treviso. Ulster are very lucky they didn't pick up a bonus point. Treviso still shadowing up behind us in the league table.


  • #3855
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Do we know they didn't join in the whatsapp chat? Was their private messages broadcast to the public?

    Details of a WhatsApp conversation with the attached video didn't seem to include any comments from them. They were lucky that they didn't end up before the courts where the information would also have become public knowledge and I'm sure the IRFU would have had to publicly reprimand them. There is absolutely no evidence of them making derogatory comments about the woman or or women from them - unlike the Ulster lads.


  • #3856
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    launish116 wrote: »
    To kick Ulster when there down, Leinster are currently losing to Treviso

    On the plus side, Nordi got to experience life in a pack getting beaten up. Adapting to Ulster life early :)


  • #3857
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I'd say that as reported by the BBC journalist, they all sat down around a table and came up with a way of saving face for everyone.

    Financial settlement in return for being allowed to say their contracts were revoked.

    Just looking into this and what has happened elsewhere. In 2011, an AFL player (Andrew Lovett - 28 at the time) was suspended following allegations of rape, and sacked when charges were laid. He was found not guilty.

    He hasn't played since and works as a labourer.


  • #3858
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,726 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jm08 wrote: »
    Just looking into this and what has happened elsewhere. In 2011, an AFL player (Andrew Lovett - 28 at the time) was suspended following allegations of rape, and sacked when charges were laid. He was found not guilty.

    He hasn't played since and works as a labourer.

    Are you hoping the same happens them?


  • #3859
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Are you hoping the same happens them?

    No. Just making the point how the AFL club had no problem sacking him on a charge of rape and he hasn't found a club even though he was acquitted.

    I wouldn't be as sure as you seem to be that they will get a big payoff for revoking their contracts.


  • #3860
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,726 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jm08 wrote: »
    No. Just making the point how the AFL club had no problem sacking him on a charge of rape and he hasn't found a club even though he was acquitted.

    I wouldn't be as sure as you seem to be that they will get a big payoff for revoking their contracts.

    I quoted a BBC journalist that was fairly sure.


  • #3861
    launish116
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭launish116


    So what for Ulster now, how do we resolve this all time low?

    What’s on the shopping list? Coach/DOR, loosehead, 2nd row, Outhalf?
    Any suggestions on potential signings?

    What deadwood is still to be shown the door?


  • Advertisement
  • #3862
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I'd say that as reported by the BBC journalist, they all sat down around a table and came up with a way of saving face for everyone.

    Financial settlement in return for being allowed to say their contracts were revoked.

    Just looking into this and what has happened elsewhere. In 2011, an AFL player (Andrew Lovett - 28 at the time) was suspended following allegations of rape, and sacked when charges were laid. He was found not guilty.

    He hasn't played since and works as a labourer.
    If you looked into it you'll know that Lovett had multiple issues before that including assault on a woman after which he continued to play. He's an alcoholic with massive issues. That trial was just the final straw in a long list of incidents.


  • #3863
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Jackson to Clermont apparently. Inevitable if Ulster are in challenge cup they will draw Clermont


  • #3864
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Indo says Olding to Exeter a done deal.


  • #3865
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Indo says Olding to Exeter a done deal.

    But.... they only found out yesterday...!??

    Two good clubs, hope they are left alone.


  • #3866
    foxyladyxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    Olding to Exeter and Jackson to France

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/stuart-olding-on-the-brink-of-signing-with-english-giants-as-paddy-jackson-opens-talks-with-french-club-36808248.html


  • #3867
    launish116
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭launish116


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Indo says Olding to Exeter a done deal.

    But.... they only found out yesterday...!??

    Two good clubs, hope they are left alone.
    Public found out yesterday! they've known a few days I think. Bound to of had contingency plans also?


  • #3868
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Well that swap deal rumour never seemed like it made any sense to me, so not surprised to see it doesn't seem to be amounting to anything


  • #3869
    foxyladyxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    Many people I spoke to thought that it was a great day for women. . I diasagreed and said that it was a sad day for rugby. The loss of Jackson in particular was immense. I don't think that any fan of rugby will be pleased with the decision albeit the only course of action that the IRFU could take,

    I feel sad and hurt by the decision to revoke their contracts but hope that given time they can once again play for Ireland,


  • #3870
    Vinnie222
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    Many people I spoke to thought that it was a great day for women. . I diasagreed and said that it was a sad day for rugby. The loss of Jackson in particular was immense. I don't think that any fan of rugby will be pleased with the decision albeit the only course of action that the IRFU could take,

    I feel sad and hurt by the decision to revoke their contracts but hope that given time they can once again play for Ireland,

    Feel sorry for the lads but they will never play again for Ireland


  • Advertisement
  • #3871
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,726 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    Olding to Exeter and Jackson to France

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/stuart-olding-on-the-brink-of-signing-with-english-giants-as-paddy-jackson-opens-talks-with-french-club-36808248.html
    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    Many people I spoke to thought that it was a great day for women. . I diasagreed and said that it was a sad day for rugby. The loss of Jackson in particular was immense. I don't think that any fan of rugby will be pleased with the decision albeit the only course of action that the IRFU could take,

    I feel sad and hurt by the decision to revoke their contracts but hope that given time they can once again play for Ireland,

    If Jackson is popping them over for Clermont I don't see why he cannot play for the national team again.

    If rugby fans are ok with it, it will happen.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement