Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

bilston · 14-04-2018 01:19PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

determinations wrote: »

Who would be top of the wish list for Ulster supporters? I've seen Pollards name thrown about, anyone else?

Are there any other players of that quality available?

Genuinely think it might be a while before the long-term option arrives up North. Just due to availability.

It will be hard this side of a WC. That's why I would happily take Carbery for a year. But again is he really going to leave Leinster, even for a season? But it would make sense on a number of levels from an Irish POV.

14-04-2018 01:19PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

As in next season? Which is what I've been led to believe will happen.

It'll be the world cup season. It's not just about identifying someone, they have to go through their entire comment and text history and interview any previous sexual partners just to be sure.

Then it's just a matter of awaiting the result of the Twitter poll and seeing how many retweets the #notmysigning campaign gets and only then can they make a decision.

Of course the sponsors can veto any signing so it could end up being the season after again.

launish116 · 14-04-2018 01:20PM

Madigan is not the answer!

kaymin · 14-04-2018 01:22PM

joseywhales wrote: »

Yes that's all I was saying, it was stated that I use the laceration as a fact incorrectly. It is a fact, I never claimed non consent.

I'm fairly certain the defence doctor could not see the laceration from the video evidence produced by the medical examiner.

prawnsambo · 14-04-2018 01:25PM

determinations wrote: »

Madigan has not exactly set the world alight in the Championship from the games I've seen.

Pat Lam clearly disagrees with you.

I know he's going nowhere because he has just signed a three-year contract, He has been outstanding, And added to how well he has played, he is one of the best place-kickers in world rugby.

joseywhales · 14-04-2018 01:29PM

launish116 wrote: »

Madigan is not the answer!

2015 golden boot winner in the pro12 with 84% kicking ratio, international 10, he might be ok as a stop gap?

launish116 · 14-04-2018 01:29PM

I’d take a decent loosehead or monster 2nd row before taking Madigan. I’d rather fill them positions and have Mcphilips.

Can’t see cash being and issue now, more supply and demand.

bennyl10 · 14-04-2018 01:30PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

I guess the Munster lads are lucky their phone messages aren't read it in court eh?

That was consensual though and never ended up in court/the public eye.
Theres a huge difference between the two.

Having a threesome is not why they were let go this morning

joseywhales · 14-04-2018 01:31PM

kaymin wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

Yes that's all I was saying, it was stated that I use the laceration as a fact incorrectly. It is a fact, I never claimed non consent.

I'm fairly certain the defence doctor could not see the laceration from the video evidence produced by the medical examiner.

So she didn't perform a medical exam is an important point and another doctor who did confirmed a laceration, I think it's a fact that a laceration exists.

prawnsambo · 14-04-2018 01:40PM

joseywhales wrote: »

2015 golden boot winner in the pro12 with 84% kicking ratio, international 10, he might be ok as a stop gap?

It's not going to happen though. He's just signed a three year deal and that would be extremely expensive to buy out.

14-04-2018 01:43PM

kaymin wrote: »

I'm fairly certain the defence doctor could not see the laceration from the video evidence produced by the medical examiner.

The defence doctor. On the video.

As opposed to just the doctor, who physically did the examination.

joseywhales · 14-04-2018 01:43PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

2015 golden boot winner in the pro12 with 84% kicking ratio, international 10, he might be ok as a stop gap?

It's not going to happen though. He's just signed a three year deal and that would be extremely expensive to buy out.

He is up there as one of the biggest wasted talents, not that he's not performing but playing a year in the championship was a terrible idea.

prawnsambo · 14-04-2018 01:51PM

joseywhales wrote: »

He is up there as one of the biggest wasted talents, not that he's not performing but playing a year in the championship was a terrible idea.

Why? He was being paid well, on a winning team with the premiership pretty much secured and a very generous backer.

There was talk last year of him going to Northampton. That would probably have been a worse decision.

tretorn · 14-04-2018 01:53PM

A laceration could be self inflicted though.

It was freshly bleeding even though it was supposed to have been inflicted fourteen hours before the woman went to the sexual assault clinic.

The forensic specialist for the defence stated if she examined anyone and found a wound still bleeding after fourteen hours she would send the person with the wound to A and E.

We will never know the truth of what happened that night, the jury sat for nine weeks and they heard all the evidence, they saw the body language,they heard the evidence from the Police including the evidence that the woman was handed the mens statements. Presumably her statments diverged from the mens so having access to their statements could only help her.

We are never going to be told why this case was ever brought, it has been rumoured that the police knew it shouldnt have been referred to Court, the police dont decide what cases go to Court though, the PPS does.

Organisations defend themselves though and individuals within powerful organisations will cover their ass, its very difficult to get the truth particularly when you have a biased media who wont accept the verdict.

If the media were not so biased they would be asking why this case was brought, how could a case go on for nine weeks and yet a jry came back in less than four hours with a not guilty verdict.

The police and the PPS and the dogs in the street know that men who are accused of rape will be forever associated with rape no matter if they are found not guilty, the dropping of Olding and Jackson makes this pretty clear for anyone who was unsure about this.

Jackson and Olding walked free from the court so them being dropped from the team has to do with the text messages. Gilroys text was the worst of all so if we are to follow this to the conclusion, ie sponsors cant be associated with people who send bawdy texts then this means Gilroy cant play for Ireland again either. What about the other players on the team, have all their phones been examined too, if not why on.

jacothelad · 14-04-2018 01:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And with that, both of us are deserving of losing our jobs.

That is the logic that jm08 presented, and you appear to be defending.

Yes you see some people reached the verdict and then had the trial. The real outcome doesn't sit well with them and I sincerely hope they are never wrongly accused of any serious crime...you know...just in case there are other 'legal eagles' ready to pounce.

prawnsambo · 14-04-2018 02:06PM

tretorn wrote: »

Organisations defend themselves though and individuals within powerful organisations will cover their ass, its very difficult to get the truth particularly when you have a biased media who wont accept the verdict.

If the media were not so biased they would be asking why this case was brought, how could a case go on for nine weeks and yet a jry came back in less than four hours with a not guilty verdict.

Genuine question, what media didn't accept the verdict? Have you links?

CommandoJack · 14-04-2018 02:07PM

Genuinely heard talk of Byrne or Carbery for a year.
I do however place a bit more weight on the chat around a straight swap with Bristol: Jackson for Madigan. Piutau money covers it.
Mads is arguably a better shout tham either of the above for Ireland in Japan, and, if bolted down, would allow Carberry to develop as a 15, where he was supposed to be before Jackson was removed from the discussion.
If we get a decent 10 behind Cooney, we've got 13/15 starters nailed down as the core of a brilliant team. Need to get a fantastic LH and a lock signed and we're set (albeit with little depth).
With Will Addison and Jordi coming, and Cave staying for another year, and the decent prospects from the academy, a bit of depth appears. It's not looking as bad as it could be.
1, 4 and 10 - the money's definitely there, it's just a matter of who's available.

FrancieBrady · 14-04-2018 02:09PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Genuine question, what media didn't accept the verdict? Have you links?

The Prime Time programme on the night the verdict was announced discussed this as if a rape had taken place. The entire programme was about a girl who claimed she was raped and wasn't believed. Not one mention was made of the situation the acquitted found themselves in.
It has been mentioned many times on here and was a disgrace.

irishbucsfan · 14-04-2018 02:09PM

How can you swap someone you've sacked?

CommandoJack · 14-04-2018 02:11PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How can you swap someone you've sacked?

There's a little thing called "putting a deal in place". There's definitely more going on behind the scenes than the picture the press releases paint - massively naive to suggest otherwise.

Synode · 14-04-2018 02:13PM

I doubt there'll be any legal cases if they've been paid off with substantial amounts. No doubt they just want to get new clubs and move on with their lives.

I'm still in shock to be honest. Really leaves a sour taste. But hypocrites are going to hypocrite. I'd seriously consider renewing my season ticket if I was an Ulster fan. Personally, I'm seriously considering dumping Bank of Ireland and Vodafone

prawnsambo · 14-04-2018 02:14PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Prime Time programme on the night the verdict was announced discussed this as if a rape had taken place. The entire programme was about a girl who claimed she was raped and wasn't believed. Not one mention was made of the situation the acquitted found themselves in.
It has been mentioned many times on here and was a disgrace.

To be clear, was this a different case they were discussing? I don't watch Prime Time. I have very little confidence in their journalistic standards, so I'm not going to defend them.

irishbucsfan · 14-04-2018 02:15PM

CommandoJack wrote: »

There's a little thing called "putting a deal in place". There's definitely more going on behind the scenes than the picture the press releases paint - massively naive to suggest otherwise.

If they were putting a deal in place, why would they simultaneously sign a 3 year contract with Ian Madigan?

This is all very conspirational. Seems unlikely to me.

14-04-2018 02:17PM

Una Mulally of the times has been wildly out of order the last few weeks. Roisin Ingle led the #notmycaptain charge. Plenty more, take your pick to be honest.

prawnsambo · 14-04-2018 02:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Una Mulally of the times has been wildly out of order the last few weeks. Roisin Ingle led the #notmycaptain charge. Plenty more, take your pick to be honest.

*Sigh*, I asked for links. No offence, but I prefer to make up my own mind.

FrancieBrady · 14-04-2018 02:19PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

To be clear, was this a different case they were discussing? I don't watch Prime Time. I have very little confidence in their journalistic standards, so I'm not going to defend them.

It was this case.
The defendants were not discussed. The entire programme was about a 'rape' victim who had lost her case.

Asus X540L · 14-04-2018 02:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Una Mulally of the times has been wildly out of order the last few weeks. Roisin Ingle led the #notmycaptain charge. Plenty more, take your pick to be honest.

The times is on the Looney left what do you expect?

Jackson and Olding happen to be "privileged straight white males" so they were hung drawn and quartered by that element

CommandoJack · 14-04-2018 02:25PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

CommandoJack wrote: »

There's a little thing called "putting a deal in place". There's definitely more going on behind the scenes than the picture the press releases paint - massively naive to suggest otherwise.

If they were putting a deal in place, why would they simultaneously sign a 3 year contract with Ian Madigan?

This is all very conspirational. Seems unlikely to me.

Madigan's contract was signed over a month ago, before the verdict, before all the protests, hashtags and general uproar, and before the IRFU and Ulster started their review. Ulster will have been seeking alternatives for a while, but particularly since the public outcry started otherwise. The "review" will have contained not insignificant amounts of chat around patching over the gaps left at Ulster left by both players, but particularly Jackson. He's been linked with Bristol since a little before the verdict, but the chat around a Madigan-Jackson swap has been picking up more than any other option in the last week or two. Given Madigan's got ambition to play for Ireland again (if the club price is right), I don't doubt the possibility.
Of course it's only chat and rumor, but it's the one with the most weight behind it in the circles I'm privy to at this time.

14-04-2018 02:26PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

The times is on the Looney left what do you expect?

Jackson and Olding happen to be "privileged straight white males" so they were hung drawn and quartered by that element

I'm on the loony left. I just expect people to have a bit of objectivity and fairness, even over things they don't like.

thomond2006 · 14-04-2018 02:31PM

Any writer looking at this through the prism of identity politics shouldn't be taken objectively.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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