thousands to lose homes or thousands to lose their free living scam?

CeilingFly · 10-04-2018 02:30PM #1

l headline form the indo
Thousands risk losing their homes
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/thousands-risk-losing-their-homes-as-they-fail-to-confront-longterm-arrears-36791883.html

Sorry, when you have paid NOTHING for 5 years and refuse to engage with the lender, its not your home. You are scamming the taxpayer and those paying high standard variable rates.

No-one has an issue with those trying their best and engaging with lenders and coming to new arrangements, but isn't time to kick the strategic defaulters who have paid NOT ONE CENT for year out of their free accomodation?

Remember, unless you are on a tracker rate. YOU are paying for these scammers through higher lending rates than there should be

donegaLroad · 10-04-2018 03:08PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

l headline form the indo
Thousands risk losing their homes
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/thousands-risk-losing-their-homes-as-they-fail-to-confront-longterm-arrears-36791883.html

Sorry, when you have paid NOTHING for 5 years and refuse to engage with the lender, its not your home. You are scamming the taxpayer and those paying high standard variable rates.

No-one has an issue with those trying their best and engaging with lenders and coming to new arrangements, but isn't time to kick the strategic defaulters who have paid NOT ONE CENT for year out of their free accomodation?

Remember, unless you are on a tracker rate. YOU are paying for these scammers through higher lending rates than there should be

I do not believe for one minute, that the banks in this country will lower the interest rates once they sort out the defaulters issue.

kneemos · 10-04-2018 03:12PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I do not believe for one minute, that the banks in this country will lower the interest rates once they sort out the defaulters issue.

Competitors with lower rates aren't interested coming in with this kind of carry on though.

Cuddlesworth · 10-04-2018 03:14PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I do not believe for one minute, that the banks in this country will lower the interest rates once they sort out the defaulters issue.

The main issue for European lenders entering our market is how difficult it is to actually collect on the dept. Competition leads to better prices.

10-04-2018 03:17PM

It's about Goddamn time we do some repossessions. A case I always use an example from a few years ago on The Late Late Show; couple with a few kids, 2 cars, built a nice McMansion. He lost his job, then her. Well over €2k a month going in, no-one working, both cars still running and they stopped paying the mortgage. I know people with small mortgages and every time there's arrears there's a song and dance (well under €30k owed) and the bank spends more on the time for phone calls etc. than how much they lose out on for a hundred quid being a week late. Pay nothing and ignore them and so far there's no downside.

howamidifferent · 10-04-2018 03:23PM

No sympathy for the people with 5 years arrears and no intention of engaging. Should be a blanket eviction order given and turf everyone of them out. They should all have a nice few bob squared away having lived rent free for the past 5 years...Let them fend for themselves.

boombang · 10-04-2018 03:31PM

If you listened to the Morning Ireland interview with the Deputy Head of the Central Bank on the radio this morning you'd swear the only consumer issue was those people who would have to face the consequences of not paying for their homes. I think the RTE coverage is totally biased in favour of those not meeting their responsibility and doesn't consider the costs passed on to mortgage holders that do pay and the tax payers that have indirectly supported this through the state ownership of much of the banks.

Hooks Golf Handicap · 10-04-2018 03:37PM

Lady in our estate stopped paying in 2010.
Vacated house in 2015 once bank agreed to write off debt.
House only up for sale last month, now damp, moldy, broken windows & ransacked inside.

If that were the US it would have been foreclosed after 3 months of missed payments & back on the market.
And they wonder why there's no homes for millennials.

robarmstrong · 10-04-2018 03:39PM

Whilst I understand some people go through untold amounts of debt, anyone who doesn't attempt to reconcile with the bank and attempt to reach a resolution with them fully deserves to have their house taken off them tbh, you shouldn't get to live in a house you're refusing to pay a cent for.

suicide_circus · 10-04-2018 03:44PM

The half in/half out approach the government takes to the market results in neither a free market nor a socialist utopia. Worst of both worlds.

CeilingFly · 10-04-2018 03:53PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I do not believe for one minute, that the banks in this country will lower the interest rates once they sort out the defaulters issue.

Santander bank of Spain and Sparkasses of Germany looked at entering Ireland and bringing lower rates.
When they saw how difficult it was to repossess from a defaulter, they walked away. Competition for customers brings better rates and once a bank offers lower rates and can make a profit from that lower rate, all other banks tend to follow suit.

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

If that were the US it would have been foreclosed after 3 months of missed payments & back on the market.
And they wonder why there's no homes for millennials.

Not just the US, but most normalised markets. In France it would be extremely rare to be able to go 6 months without dialogue and still be in the house. And if you suddenly start dialogue after ignoring them for 6 months, they don't care. And because this is well known, anyone in difficulty there contacts their bank immediately to come to an agreement.

I just wish the media and the government would stop pandering to these scammers and permit automatic repossession to anyone who has not engaged with the bank and has not paid for over 12 months.

JohnnyFlash · 10-04-2018 03:56PM

I’m holding out for my forever home, and I ain’t going paying for it either. Cause I’ve been told that everyone is entitled to a free gaff, and that someone else should pay for it.

Wheety · 10-04-2018 04:14PM

You can thank all the populist politicians. They don't really care about these people. Just whip them up into a frenzy, telling them they're owed a house and they're owed free, clean water and if anyone tries to evict them or make them pay, they're big evil corporations.

Surefire way of getting elected again next time with their us v them game.

These people, defaulting on their loans or others being told not to pay rent as there's nothing anyone can do about it for a couple of years, should be evicted. There are plenty of people out there who would pay.

Wheeliebin30 · 10-04-2018 04:18PM

Welcome to the new Ireland where personal responsibility is a thing of the past.

Country is going one way with the entitlement culture.

Uncharted · 10-04-2018 04:19PM

It's de gubberment I blame...... and de fordiners.

beefburrito · 10-04-2018 04:32PM

New cars, two sun holiday's a year...

No mortgage payments, it's a well know fact Jimmy and Mary down the road are 6 year's in debt but still going to Peter Mark's...

Great country

10-04-2018 04:40PM

A quarter of the thread on boards are about a tiny amount of people and situations. Why no threads on the 90% of people who pay their mortgages no problems.

donegaLroad · 10-04-2018 04:46PM

Irish mortgage rates are still nearly double euro-area average.

whiskeyman · 10-04-2018 04:46PM

mariaalice wrote: »

A quarter of the thread on boards are about a tiny amount of people and situations. Why no threads on the 90% of people who pay their mortgages no problems.

Because the actions of a minority can have devastating consequences on the majority

WHIP IT! · 10-04-2018 04:48PM

mariaalice wrote: »

A quarter of the thread on boards are about a tiny amount of people and situations. Why no threads on the 90% of people who pay their mortgages no problems.

What exactly would those threads say, Luv?

"Friend of mine and her husband paid the mortgage and the gas there the other day... flash c*nts!"

hmmm · 10-04-2018 04:50PM

The defaulters are the reason our mortgage interest rates are so high. Everyone else is paying for them.

Someone who has paid 50 quid towards their mortgage over 10 years is taking the piss.

ChikiChiki · 10-04-2018 04:50PM

mariaalice wrote: »

A quarter of the thread on boards are about a tiny amount of people and situations. Why no threads on the 90% of people who pay their mortgages no problems.

Ridiculous post. Well done lads paying your mortagages and covering of the 10%.

10-04-2018 04:52PM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

What exactly would those threads say, Luv?

"Friend of mine and her husband paid the mortgage and the gas there the other day... flash c*nts!"

Exactly because that it the life of the vast majority, there is a tiny amount not paying their mortgage, scamming the system or what every, yes they need to be dealt with but the forming at the mouth fury along with the anecdotes are laughable.

10-04-2018 04:57PM

Yet, we see the madness of the Celtic Tiger returning. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-pictures-desperate-househunters-queue-outside-new-dublin-development-days-ahead-of-sale-36792964.html

donegaLroad · 10-04-2018 05:04PM

hmmm wrote: »

The defaulters are the reason our mortgage interest rates are so high. Everyone else is paying for them.

Someone who has paid 50 quid towards their mortgage over 10 years is taking the piss.

I bought my house in 2006, and the intetest rate is roughly the same today as is was back then. 2006 is before all this defaulting began.

I haven't missed one payment btw.

The question is, why are Irish interest rates twice the European average?

banie01 · 10-04-2018 05:06PM

At the start of 2009 when news of mortgage defaults and arrears became known in financial circles there was a view taken that a substantial hit was incoming to banks balance sheets.
The imterest rates continuing above Euro averages are a reflection of that risk being priced into the market offerings.
The MABS process and the screaming of PBP and other put the impact of these arrears on the long finger.
The typical Irish response of kicking the can down the road, along with apportioning a significant portion of the blame to the banks for engaging in reckless lending.

At its simplest, a mortgage, ANY mortgage is a security backed loan based on the value of the secured property.
To have a functioning property market, both for property sales and rentals it is imperative that non performing mortgage holders face a process that includes actual foreclosure.
Why any commercial entity would engage in lending into the Irish market is beyond me.
It is a hugely difficult task to gain a repossession order, it then becomes an emotional and publicity bombshell when any such order is attempted to be enforced.
There is a rallying cry to raise resistance to people losing their homes...
Well its not theirs is it?
They were afforded a degree of credit to allow its purchase, and where someone fails to meet their loan terms banks need to be able to repossess the propertt, crystallize any loss and get the property back to market again as quickly as possible to ensure continuity both of credit availabilty and gousing supply.

As it stands so many mortgages are in arrears and long fingered that the pillar banks are in actuality acting as a quasi social housing landlord by not initiating proceedings!
These mortgages should by right be included on housing wait list figures as the mortgage holders will need near immediate rehousing if ever evicted.
By it via social housing or rental support programmes.

The volume of housing stock and actual capital tied up in non performing mortgages could very quickly have a significant economic impact if rectified.
And the provisions made for impaired loans by "our" banks could be crystalized and balance sheets corrected fairly rapidly if the mortgage market was allowed function in a rational manner.

10-04-2018 05:08PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I bought my house in 2006, and the intetest rate is roughly the same today as is was back then. 2006 is before all this defaulting began.

I haven't missed one payment btw.

The question is, why are Irish interest rates twice the European average?

Mostly the "defaulters".
If you have 90% of loans being repaid instead of, say, 97%, that's 3 times as much of a loss. We just don't have actual defaulting.

silverharp · 10-04-2018 05:25PM

no sympathy , 5 to 10 years mortgage stashed away is a tidy sum, repo them and let the generation behind have a chance

Chips Lovell · 10-04-2018 05:32PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

I bought my house in 2006, and the intetest rate is roughly the same today as is was back then. 2006 is before all this defaulting began.

The rate shouldn't be the same. It should be less.

Take a look at what the ECB rate was in 2006 relative to what it is today.

Irish mortgage lenders haven't been passing on ECB rate cuts.

Assetbacked · 10-04-2018 05:35PM

boombang wrote: »

If you listened to the Morning Ireland interview with the Deputy Head of the Central Bank on the radio this morning you'd swear the only consumer issue was those people who would have to face the consequences of not paying for their homes. I think the RTE coverage is totally biased in favour of those not meeting their responsibility and doesn't consider the costs passed on to mortgage holders that do pay and the tax payers that have indirectly supported this through the state ownership of much of the banks.

This, for me, is the single-biggest reason I can see the current government taking a hammering in the next election and being surprised that they do. Their support base of "middle classes" (i.e. "those that get up in the morning") is what they rely on but they will lose a lot of these people. The people who have moved from abroad to Ireland for work are likely unable to vote so those foreign "tech company" workers, in a good position within the economy, cannot support the government.

There is anger there among ordinary working people, particularly with the last patronising budget where workers were rewarded with a pathetic tax cut, worth nothing to their wallets; while the dole was raised for people not currently working and paying taxes.

suicide_circus · 10-04-2018 05:42PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

This, for me, is the single-biggest reason I can see the current government taking a hammering in the next election and being surprised that they do. Their support base of "middle classes" (i.e. "those that get up in the morning") is what they rely on but they will lose a lot of these people. The people who have moved from abroad to Ireland for work are likely unable to vote so those foreign "tech company" workers, in a good position within the economy, cannot support the government.

There is anger there among ordinary working people, particularly with the last patronising budget where workers were rewarded with a pathetic tax cut...

Agreed but what is the alternative? FG and FF are essentially the same party and the rest of the parties are the types that push for legislation that results in the non functioning housing market described in this thread and who are certainly not fans of the people who get up in the morning?

thousands to lose homes or thousands to lose their free living scam?

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