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Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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13567…80

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    #62
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,185 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    work wrote: »
    but the issue is a proven poisonous group having such control and freedom to brainwash our next generation.....this needs to change

    Most people I know attended primary and secondary schools owned by the Catholic church,

    None of them are "brainwashed".


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    #63
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,185 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    work wrote: »
    but the issue is a proven poisonous group having such control and freedom to brainwash our next generation.....this needs to change

    This "brainwashing" isn't very effective, is it?
    • falling mass attendance
    • sex before marriage is common
    • widespread co-habitation before marriage
    • use of contraception
    • 35% babies born outside marriage

    Anybody who thinks the Catholic church has "a grip or control" over society is utterly naive.


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    #64
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,238 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Geuze wrote: »
    This "brainwashing" isn't very effective, is it?
    • falling mass attendance
    • sex before marriage is common
    • widespread co-habitation before marriage
    • use of contraception
    • 35% babies born outside marriage

    Anybody who thinks the Catholic church has "a grip or control" over society is utterly naive.

    They have a grip insofar as they are legally allowed to discriminate with regards to entry to State-funded primary schools - THAT needs to change - but again, this is not what the OP or anyone else wants to protest. If it was, they would have portested a long time ago.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #65
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,185 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    work wrote: »
    I fully accept and support your right to welcome the pope however I really do not want a knee jerk reaction. I want Christian indoctrination out of our society along with its pathologic ideals.

    Well you're in luck, as there isn't any "Christian indoctrination" in Ireland.

    I think you'll find that if more people followed the Ten Commandments, the world would be a better place.


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    #66
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    work wrote: »
    I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
    1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
    2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
    3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
    4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
    5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
    6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
    7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
    8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.


    There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
    Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

    Why don't you just not turn up?


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    #67
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    its not against freedom of either, its against the obvious undue influence the catholic church in particular holds in Irish society.

    The organisation has been shown time and time again to be utterly despicable and its leader should be held to account. Unfortunately the state will never seek to hold them to account so protest is the only avenue left.

    To achieve what?


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    #68
    andy t
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭andy t


    try organise a protest to this & you will probably be shot !

    just saying .....


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    #69
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    I'd like to hear the Pope address some of the past of the Church maybe even take a visit to Tuam. Actually given who he is wouldn't surprise me if he did just that.


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    #70
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    captbarnacles wrote: »
    I'd like to hear the Pope address some of the past of the Church maybe even take a visit to Tuam. Actually given who he is wouldn't surprise me if he did just that.

    A few nice words, and then the whole organisation will continue to drag their heels, and tell survivors of abuse that they're lying, hide internal investigations, and protect offenders.

    Just because they've got a nice PR face, doesn't mean the organisation isn't still broken.

    I'm not protesting that he's coming, or against ordinary Catholics, I'd protest against the repeated and consistent failures of the RCC to actually do something meaningful in light of abuse.


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    #71
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    By all means if that's what gets you through the night.

    What will you solve or prove by doing this and how are you going to get anywhere near the pope to garner any publicity?


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    #72
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    work wrote: »
    I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
    1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
    2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
    3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
    4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
    5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
    6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
    7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
    8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.


    There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
    Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

    Let's re-phrase that.

    They're not welcome by you. What about the people who practice the catholic religion. Surely they are allowed to express their religious beliefs without interference just like non catholics are entitled to disagree.

    Another question, if you are a part of any of these groups that you mention why would you want to join the catholic church?

    As an example, haven't the Catholic Church made it clear that they look on homosexuality unfavourably. On that very simple basis alone why would any self respecting gay person concern themselves with anything the catholic church has to say.

    That's their viewpoint. Whatever you may think of it, thats what it is.

    I don't understand why anyone would want to join a club, group or religion that doesn't want them or value them as a member.


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    #73
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Just dont visit him at the Phoenix Park its as simple as that i suspect thats what many will choose to do.


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    #74
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    I'm not entirely convicned you're being sincere here, but in the event you are, - yeah, let's protest against freedom of expression and freedom of religion. That'll show the rest of the world how modern and toletant we are...

    If we judge other nations for tolerance and modernity based on their attitude towards protesters, whats the issue here?

    Free to march, free to counter march.

    It's only tolerance and openness if ALL views are permitted. The alternative is liberal facism. "My correct view, or **** you, you don't get an opinion".


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    #75
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    work wrote: »
    I don't believe there is much support for Christianity in comparison to the fanatical support they had 50 years ago. I think people are just not sure what to do without religion as it has been inground into their life through.....weddings and other events etc. If you were raised as a Muslim/jew/hindu would you support Christianity....of course not...therin lies the reason for change to stop following and promoting the lie.

    There is no place in our beautiful Christian Catholic Country for this drivel...


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    #76
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    Graces7 wrote: »
    And also of course the Gardia and others will be well prepared for protests and wil deal with them. swiftly and efficiently

    What do you mean? Is protesting illegal now?


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    #77
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    If we judge other nations for tolerance and modernity based on their attitude towards protesters, whats the issue here?

    Free to march, free to counter march.

    It's only tolerance and openness if ALL views are permitted. The alternative is liberal facism. "My correct view, or **** you, you don't get an opinion".

    Good point....the OP comes across as wanting to be "in charge" of the protest....I wonder if Ireland has the Official Protest Application process which the RSA has...It could well be a first-step to establishing who's in charge ?

    http://www.localgovernmentaction.org/activists-guide/mobilise-communites/organise-a-protest-march
    Identify the convener
    The convener is the person who is officially in charge of a gathering, and who is responsible for asking permission from the local authority. They are the contact person for your organisation.


    .....now,we also need ....
    A deputy convener must also be appointed, to replace the convener when necessary

    Hmmm,this is starting to take on a life of it's own.....anyway good luck to the OP with their crusade,nothing like a bit of leadership'n all that.

    PS: Please Mods...the lack of a word between "Protest" and "the" in the Thread Title is just......I dunno...a crime,against my time in the Boys National School :eek:

    PS...Good luck on the day !!!


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #78
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    There is no place in our beautiful Christian Catholic Country for this drivel...

    Excuse me, but where are you living? Clearly not Ireland


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    #79
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    RWCNT wrote: »
    What do you mean? Is protesting illegal now?

    Of course not .. but this is the establishment.

    Cannot find the article, but way back a man who had been abused by a priest stood up in mass and verbally attacked the priest.

    Immediately six strong parishioners surrounded him and walked him out,.

    They were ready and trained.

    demos against a politician are one thing but against the head of the church quite another


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    #80
    work
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    They have a grip insofar as they are legally allowed to discriminate with regards to entry to State-funded primary schools - THAT needs to change - but again, this is not what the OP or anyone else wants to protest. If it was, they would have portested a long time ago.

    That would be the most important thing to change (state funded school influence) I believe and in fairness in my OP that may not have been evident. I have no personal need to protest but the church have been involved in some very nasty episodes in this country and perhaps a PEACEFUL protest toward their leader (the one that exists) is merited.
    I really wanted to just get an idea what people thought about a protest and certainly not to lead one. Without access to the schools most children would not be aware of the church and its teachings. A class on being civic minded, ethical and an understanding of all major religions to help how countries developed should be what children are exposed to.


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    #81
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,545 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Or maybe they are using the upcoming visit of the head of the church to coordinate a protest around a particular event.

    It is far easier to get people interested when the event is already widely known about rather than picking a random Thursday in October or whatever. And just because people may not have protested before, does not diminish the point they are trying to make.

    The 1st question that the pope should be asked is why, in the #metoo era and when companies in the UK are now required to file gender pay gap reports, does the Catholic church still exercise sexism in terms of it hiring policies?

    That we, as a country, should be welcoming such a standard bearer of sexism is a shame.


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    #82
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,764 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    This is an odd thread really given the usual tone of Catholic Church threads.

    It seems to me that most here seem to reckon their virtue-signalling of "tolerance" is of more importance than the actual subject involved - the visit of the designated head of an organisation which has been responsible for decades of abuse, misery and social stagnation in this country and which even now - 25 years after that started to finally loosen - still has lingering effects on things like Education, and the outstanding answers and justice for many of its victims.

    I wasn't raised a Catholic - or with any faith (my mother had a "none of the above until they're old enough to decide for themselves" attitude to it all), and while I don't really care either way if he comes as I won't be going or listening to him, it's funny that so many here seem to be against the idea of a peaceful protest by those who may have a legitimate cause for one.. just because it might "look bad" in the era of Twitter and 24/7 news.

    Let's turn it on its head.. I was walking down the street with my 6 year old the other day and we passed a truck parked up with a big anti-abortion poster on the side showing an "angry baby". Luckily he's too young to realise the significance, but is that acceptable really?


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    #83
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Will you also protest at the governments and civil authorities collusion in self same child abuse cases?


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    #84
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,545 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Rivka Flat Handgun wrote: »
    Will you also protest at the governments and civil authorities collusion in self same child abuse cases?

    What has that got to do with the thread?

    If they no, does not rule out protesting the CC?
    If they say yes, will that make you happier?


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    #85
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    Your sick.

    His sick what? Granny?
    Went to Lourdes, she's grand now.


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    #86
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,238 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    If we judge other nations for tolerance and modernity based on their attitude towards protesters, whats the issue here?

    Free to march, free to counter march.

    It's only tolerance and openness if ALL views are permitted. The alternative is liberal facism. "My correct view, or **** you, you don't get an opinion".

    Oh, I'm not trying to ban any protest: I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in trying to portray a free and tolerant society by being intolerant of someone else's freedom and tolerance. I totally defend the right to protest, if that's what he wants to do, but when he says "show them that they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society" it doesn't sound like he's even considered anyone else's viewpoint.

    OP is the one trying to get something banned here, not me.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #87
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,545 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The OP is not banning anyone, they are looking to protest to show that whilst they are free to come here they need to understand that there are certain expectations that a modern tolerant society has and that he heads an organisation which fails to meet those standards.


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    #88
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,665 ✭✭✭corks finest


    work wrote: »
    corks finest wrote: »
    Obviously you're looking for a knee jerk reaction,here's mine,and really don't care what ppl think,I my family,and most sensible, Christians welcome the holy father,us a man of peace and reconciliation,end of

    I fully accept and support your right to welcome the pope however I really do not want a knee jerk reaction. I want Christian indoctrination out of our society along with its pathologic ideals. To this end I am trying to gather support to protest the "holy fathers" coming to Ireland so the political establishment understand how change is not only needed but should be implemented.
    Guess you'll have to duck it up kid,as majority in any democratic national calls the shots,and as we are still a Christian nation,tough


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    #89
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    GreeBo wrote: »
    His sick what? Granny?
    Went to Lourdes, she's grand now.

    Just his sick. I think they were offering to return it. As in "here's your sick"


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    #90
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,238 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    work wrote: »
    That would be the most important thing to change (state funded school influence) I believe and in fairness in my OP that may not have been evident. I have no personal need to protest but the church have been involved in some very nasty episodes in this country and perhaps a PEACEFUL protest toward their leader (the one that exists) is merited.
    I really wanted to just get an idea what people thought about a protest and certainly not to lead one. Without access to the schools most children would not be aware of the church and its teachings. A class on being civic minded, ethical and an understanding of all major religions to help how countries developed should be what children are exposed to.

    That's a failing of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform (or whetever it's called) though; not the Catholic Church

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #91
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Quite interesting to see peoples stances on religion, saw something on twitter yesterday where a guy was calling a bunch of people who were protesting the opening of a mosque in Kilkenny racist.

    Then compare the reaction to protesting of the Scientology centre in Dublin or this thread. While i do understand that the Irish have been victimized more from the catholic religion i am just wondering why we don't hold all religions to the same standards.


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