Should we protest against the pope's visit?

work

Graces7 wrote: »

You need to bone up on Ireland;s history and formation. The Catholic Church created our health and education services and still have a strong influence supported by eg parents

See for example

http://www.ceist.ie/

Yes I really want my kids bought up in the Catholic tradition like CEIST says, what part of tradition do you refer to misogyny and abuse?....perhaps bone up or stick to blind faith, as the master church wants, it is your choice.
Are you so naive as to think the church oversaw education and health for the good of the population.....it is about control and money.....if they didnt control them especially education they would cease to exist financially and politically. The priests may not understand this but once they do they probably get promoted to Bishop.

YFlyer

There was the black pope on indymedia.ie years back. Wonder what happen to him?

RobbingBandit

I hope he gets a tour of Irelands largest lingerie department.

Graces7

work wrote: »

Yes I really want my kids bought up in the Catholic tradition like CEIST says, what part of tradition do you refer to misogyny and abuse?....perhaps bone up or stick to blind faith, as the master church wants, it is your choice.
Are you so naive as to thing the church oversaw education and health for the population.....it is about control and money.....if they didnt control them especially education they would cease to exist financially and politically.

This bitterness is inaccurate. All the while, there was a duality. Day schools were not affected by abuse; the residential facilities were . That was one reason why the abuse was not faced up to sooner.

Children in schools got an excellent education. Patients got health care.

Not at all naive; when you are sick you do not ask where the cure is coming from. When you need education the same

The fact remains; the church founded schools and hospitals.

Parents have the right to educate their children in their faith. Period. Whether you or I agree with their choice is of no consequence or relevance.

Without harassment .

Please read the site to learn !

Graces7

martyc5674 wrote: »

Yes,that is the case.

However now that we’re well clear of the hedge schools it’s time they fecked off out of the schools and left faith formation to occur outside of the schools.

In the case of Ceist? Parental choice. freedom to choose.

And your opening remark! Yes the church did that.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Graces7 wrote: »

In the case of Ceist? Parental choice. freedom to choose.

And your opening remark! Yes the church did that.

Is there such a thing as parental choice when, in a lot of areas, the only state schools are allowed to discriminate based on baptism? Or has that changed since I moved away?

work

Graces7 wrote: »

This bitterness is inaccurate. All the while, there was a duality. Day schools were not affected by abuse; the residential facilities were . That was one reason why the abuse was not faced up to sooner.

Children in schools got an excellent education. Patients got health care.

Not at all naive; when you are sick you do not ask where the cure is coming from. When you need education the same

The fact remains; the church founded schools and hospitals.

Parents have the right to educate their children in their faith. Period. Whether you or I agree with their choice is of no consequence or relevance.

Without harassment .

Please read the site to learn !

I am not bitter but tired of the real lack of change in the country. Where I live there are no real alternatives to state funded church schools so where is the choice? Plenty of abuse occurred in day schools just nothing like the institutions. It is insane or blind faith to suggest otherwise. The amount of physical abuse was overwhelming it is just sexual that makes the headlines. We should not forget or forgive and I cannot see anything they do to suggest they have mended their ways, still hide and protect their own.
On your last point about looking at your suggested site. It is promotional religious material which is fine for people that choose their blind faith but I wouldn't don't see the point. The state needs to take responsibility for all its citizens and leave outdated institutions in the cold and available to people with the need it for thier blind faith. At the same time I have absoloutely no issue with anyone chooseing a religeous path if that is for them. I do feel the complete lack of evidence for this fallacy means we should stop paying for it and promoting it to our kids.

martyc5674

Graces7 wrote: »

Parents have the right to educate their children in their faith. Period. Whether you or I agree with their choice is of no consequence or relevance.

Without harassment .

Please read the site to learn !

Absolutely agree with this, but with the Catholic Churches dominance in school patronage it is not possible.
It’s time for the church to let go of their ties with schools... it makes no sense, faith formation and education should be segregated, they don’t belong together.

If you went for a swimming lesson(just picking something random here) run by the church, would you think it appropriate if they made you say prayers first?

Graces7

martyc5674 wrote: »

Absolutely agree with this, but with the Catholic Churches dominance in school patronage it is not possible.
It’s time for the church to let go of their ties with schools... it makes no sense, faith formation and education should be segregated, they don’t belong together.

If you went for a swimming lesson(just picking something random here) run by the church, would you think it appropriate if they made you say prayers first?

Not a good eg.. and parents can veto religious content for their children so your analogy fails..

Home schooling is great and I honestly think you are making a fuss needlessly and damaging your child;s education more.

boylecm

I view the pope as a head of state and have no objection to him coming here in that capacity

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Graces7 wrote: »

Not a good eg.. and parents can veto religious content for their children so your analogy fails..

Home schooling is great and I honestly think you are making a fuss needlessly and damaging your child;s education more.

How about if the kids weren't allowed to participate in said classes unless they had been baptised, but their parents have to fund them regardless?

martyc5674

Graces7 wrote: »

parents can veto religious content for their children so your analogy fails..

Have you seen the hoops people have been put through to veto it?
Oh and what then... sit in a class room on your own sidelined?
I’m sorry but my tax money pays for theses schools, I don’t want a few hours a week of missed education while others are being indoctrinated.

I’m not on about homeschooling everything... faith formation at home.
Just like the way you may or may not choose to show your kid how to ride a bike,teach them right from wrong, teach them sympathy etc, if your dead set on a particular faith for your kids you are best positioned to educate them.

My kids are in a multi denominational school, they learn about all religions and what they represent, traditions etc. But they are not driven towards one.

Friends of mine have their kids in a catholic school, they have no choice in schools where they are.
Their twins are in communion year and they have decided to pull them out of communion as it is not their belief.
The kids feel like outcasts because the main topic of conversation in school everyday is about the communion, dresses, parties etc.
Do you think this is right? It’s the focal point for a whole year in school.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

martyc5674 wrote: »

Absolutely agree with this, but with the Catholic Churches dominance in school patronage it is not possible.
It’s time for the church to let go of their ties with schools... it makes no sense, faith formation and education should be segregated, they don’t belong together.

If you went for a swimming lesson(just picking something random here) run by the church, would you think it appropriate if they made you say prayers first?

My wife and a couple of our kids are primary school teachers. They (while none are in schools with baptism requirements) all feel religion should be removed from the schools and be taught by the parish outside school hours. This would free time in school for other curriculum subjects and end the nonsense of non-believers going through the charade of First Communion and Confirmation just because the rest of the class is doing so. As things stand the so-called catholic patronage in many schools is farcical, with many local priests having little or no interest in the running of the schools.

martyc5674

@graces7

Would you send your kids to a school of let’s say Muslim patronage?

Graces7

martyc5674 wrote: »

@graces7

Would you send your kids to a school of let’s say Muslim patronage?

I would home school.Always, as many of my younger friends do.

With full approval from the relevant authorities...

The amount of conflict you generate here.. grinding axes.... and so called multi denom are worst of all . Meaningless and empty of any faith.

Graces7

PS by all means try a "protest" ; and see what the result is? You have no idea what you are up against

Sofiztikated

Graces7 wrote: »

PS by all means try a "protest" ; and see what the result is? You have no idea what you are up against

For a person of faith, you seem to have no issue with vague threats.

work

Graces7 wrote: »

PS by all means try a "protest" ; and see what the result is? You have no idea what you are up against

The church has done untold damage to the people of this Island. I started this thread as I would like to see them out of our state funded schools. In fairness I did not state this really there but this would be my objective.
Many others may have more pressing concerns that they could bring up.
If you do not stand up to be counted then your opinion can never be heard and the power is left with those that do stand up.
I am not sure what we are "up against", would you like to explain?

martyc5674

Graces7 wrote: »

I would home school.Always, as many of my younger friends do.

With full approval from the relevant authorities...

The amount of conflict you generate here.. grinding axes.... and so called multi denom are worst of all . Meaningless and empty of any faith.

Answer the question... would you send them to a Muslim patronage school?

Very few people have the financial resources to homeschool.

Glass fused light

work wrote: »

The church has done untold damage to the people of this Island. I started this thread as I would like to see them out of our state funded schools. In fairness I did not state this really there but this would be my objective.
Many others may have more pressing concerns that they could bring up.
If you do not stand up to be counted then your opinion can never be heard and the power is left with those that do stand up.
I am not sure what we are "up against", would you like to explain?

slow day and all but I am feeling a little sad being ignored .....

Glass fused light wrote: »

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/


http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8rnraa/

martyc5674

Glass fused light wrote: »

slow day and all but I am feeling a little sad being ignored .....

Those census figures stand for SFA.
Sure we baptised our 2 kids in case we didn’t get them into the school we wanted.

And even so... people need choice, it wouldn’t be possible to cover all faiths in every town, so the obvious answer is to remove faith formation from the schools.

Personally I think it suits a lot of parents that it happens at school, saved them the work.

Glass fused light

work wrote: »

The church has done untold damage to the people of this Island. I started this thread as I would like to see them out of our state funded schools. In fairness I did not state this really there but this would be my objective.
Many others may have more pressing concerns that they could bring up.
If you do not stand up to be counted then your opinion can never be heard and the power is left with those that do stand up.
I am not sure what we are "up against", would you like to explain?

martyc5674 wrote: »

Those census figures stand for SFA.
Sure we baptised our 2 kids in case we didn’t get them into the school we wanted.

And even so... people need choice, it wouldn’t be possible to cover all faiths in every town, so the obvious answer is to remove faith formation from the schools.

Personally I think it suits a lot of parents that it happens at school, saved them the work.

martyc5674

I’m baffled by the last post... smile = superior maybe? Good for you.

Have a read of this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/census-2016-will-get-religion-all-wrong-1.2613938?mode=amp

Glass fused light

martyc5674 wrote: »

I’m baffled by the last post... smile = superior maybe? Good for you.

Have a read of this.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/census-2016-will-get-religion-all-wrong-1.2613938?mode=amp

smile = QED

The opinion piece = QED

martyc5674

Glass fused light wrote: »

smile = QED

The opinion piece = QED

Right, that's wonderful, it would be more meaningful if you engaged in the conversation though.

Wombatman

Three gigs is the maximum number allowed for Croker under planning permission granted by An Bord Pleanála. Tickets are on sale for four gigs in Croke Park this year – two performances by Taylor Swift and one by Michael Bublé and one by The Rolling Stones.

Can't believe the residents are accepting another performance and the hoards of unruly crackpots it will attract.

Allinall

Wombatman wrote: »

Three gigs is the maximum number allowed for Croker under planning permission granted by An Bord Pleanála. Tickets are on sale for four gigs in Croke Park this year – two performances by Taylor Swift and one by Michael Bublé and one by The Rolling Stones.

Can't believe the residents are accepting another performance and the hoards of unruly crackpots it will attract.

But the Leinster final is held in croker every year.

It’s tradition at this stage.

Glass fused light

martyc5674 wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

smile = QED

The opinion piece = QED

Right, that's wonderful, it would be more meaningful if you engaged in the conversation though.

Look, it's AH,  I just followed this thread as I enjoy irony and reading the mental tap dancing some of the posts display.  And little gems like this.

Allinall wrote: »

But the Leinster final is held in croker every year.

It’s tradition at this stage.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Allinall wrote: »

But the Leinster final is held in croker every year.

It’s tradition at this stage.

Yeah, blind Irish tradition. What could possibly go wrong?

martyc5674

martyc5674 wrote: »

Answer the question... would you send them to a Muslim patronage school?

Very few people have the financial resources to homeschool.

Well graces7,yes or no to the above question?