Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

1…9293959798…336

Comments

  • #2822
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Wikidy wrote: »
    Given that there is a game of rugby on tonight this thread has gone very quiet. Are we expecting the inevitable?

    I would expect the Ulster team to fight like dogs to avoid it tbh.

    There's been so much negative press the last few weeks, not one but two head coaches have fallen by the wayside and they're facing the prospect of playing in the Challenge Cup for the first time ever, surely we have to see a reaction.

    If EVER there was a time for the playing group to draw a line in the sand, this is it.

    Maybe they won't win, Edinburgh are in flying form, but I'd expect to see them tackling like dogs, hitting every ruck like a train and just generally trying harder than they have done.


  • #2823
    CommandoJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭CommandoJack


    Former Former wrote: »
    I would expect the Ulster team to fight like dogs to avoid it tbh.

    ...

    If EVER there was a time for the playing group to draw a line in the sand, this is it.

    Agreed. We're actually fielding a fairly solid team too, with a lot of potential from the youngsters. I'm expecting a tight contest, for the first 40 at the very least.


  • #2824
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I'm looking forward to it more than I was because some of the kids are getting a run. I don't think we will win but as FF says I expect a backlash.

    O'Toole will probably find the scrums tough but hopefully he gets a few runs in the loose. It's a big night for Dalton starting alongside Henderson. Hopefully O'Hagan and Curtis both get a decent run.


  • #2825
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Pathetic


    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/982224461922385921?s=19


  • #2826
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Pathetic


    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/982224461922385921?s=19

    Interesting that 90% of the replies to the tweet were saying the witch hunt should stop.


  • Advertisement
  • #2827
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Pathetic


    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/982224461922385921?s=19

    I've no doubt the 130 people who paid for this will give up their social media accounts, text history and online comment history for review. They'd have nothing to fear from that right?


  • #2828
    Wegians89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Jackson’s new statement today leaves me thinking he doesn’t want to leave


  • #2829
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Far more interestingly, I saw there was a much more detailed apology from Jackson today that looked far closer to what it should have been. A shame it wasn’t the first thing he did, but I’d actually say there’s a chance it wouldn’t have materialized if he had been given his marching orders already.


  • #2830
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Far more interestingly, I saw there was a much more detailed apology from Jackson today that looked far closer to what it should have been. A shame it wasn’t the first thing he did, but I’d actually say there’s a chance it wouldn’t have materialized if he had been given his marching orders already.

    Yeah, I just saw that.

    I agree it probably should have been the first thing he said, but while Olding has received far less criticism (more because he is far less well known than Jackson outside rugby circles) there were some who took his apology was an admission of guilt. Clearly it wasn't but some idiots will take it that way and maybe that's why it wasn't the first Jackson did. Maybe he was advised it might look like an admission of guilt.


  • #2831
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Far more interestingly, I saw there was a much more detailed apology from Jackson today that looked far closer to what it should have been. A shame it wasn’t the first thing he did, but I’d actually say there’s a chance it wouldn’t have materialized if he had been given his marching orders already.

    I thought exactly the same thing. The first step in a PR rehabilitation I would think.

    Those people taking out the ad in the paper, I'm not sure that's helping anyone really.


  • Advertisement
  • #2832
    errlloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    He gets no credit for that apology from me tbh. Far too late.


  • #2833
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Jackson’s new statement today leaves me thinking he doesn’t want to leave

    It would be interesting to know whether he IRFU told him to apologise. If they did that would suggest they are at least exploring the possibility of him staying.

    I've said it before I can see him playing for Ulster again, I think after the initial reaction things would calm down pretty quickly up here but I think it would be a lot harder with Ireland. There will be a huge reaction, mainly from non rugby fans, but it will be massive news. I suppose if he played in Australia in June that might temper the reaction a bit as it would be on other side of the world in the middle of the Soccer World Cup.


  • #2834
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    errlloyd wrote: »
    He gets no credit for that apology from me tbh. Far too late.

    Be honest though, would it have mattered to you if he had apologised straight away?


  • #2835
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    I thought exactly the same thing. The first step in a PR rehabilitation I would think.

    Those people taking out the ad in the paper, I'm not sure that's helping anyone really.

    Yeah.

    When I saw the Gilroy apology, I thought "that probably wouldn't exist if he was in serious ongoing trouble", I think Jackson still is, but I think this is an indication that the decision isn't final at least, or that they're testing the waters. Wouldn't be surprised to see him give an auld sad candid interview about how tough the whole ordeal has been soon.

    The newspaper ad is a non-entity really, fools and their money are easily parted. BelTel probably delighted to have a reminder to everyone that paying money to have ink scattered on dead trees in a political pattern is actually possible.


  • #2836
    errlloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    bilston wrote: »
    Be honest though, would it have mattered to you if he had apologised straight away?

    It would not have made me more inclined to believe he isn't a rapist. Apologies for the double negative there - but I think you get it.

    However it would have made me more inclined to believe he isn't a bad person. After the trial even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and the full presumption of innocence I still think he is a bad person.

    EDIT: Put bad person in there rather than what I had.


  • #2837
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    errlloyd wrote: »
    It would not have made me more inclined to believe he isn't a rapist. Apologies for the double negative there - but I think you get it.

    However it would have made me more inclined to believe he isn't a bad person. After the trial even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and the full presumption of innocence I still think he is a bad person.

    EDIT: Put bad person in there rather than what I had.

    I just read this elsewhere but it's an interesting point.

    If Jackson had a threesome with two women and the next day those ladies texted each other saying "it was like passing around a pogo stick", would anyone care in the slightest? Would those women be told to leave their jobs?

    If they said "we sandwiched him like a slice of roast ham", would we be calling them disgusting misandrist's?


  • #2838
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,404 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I just read this elsewhere but it's an interesting point.

    If Jackson had a threesome with two women and the next day those ladies texted each other saying "it was like passing around a pogo stick", would anyone care in the slightest? Would those women be told to leave their jobs?

    If they said "we sandwiched him like a slice of roast ham", would we be calling them disgusting misandrist's?
    You keep trying to create false equivalences to this. An equivalent situation would be what happened Teddy THomas and his mates. They got dropped by France and Thomas himself was fined by his club. No idea if the other French players were treated similarly by their clubs, but none of them were charged with anything.

    And we're back off topic again, so I'll leave it at that.


  • #2839
    errlloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I just read this elsewhere but it's an interesting point.

    If Jackson had a threesome with two women and the next day those ladies texted each other saying "it was like passing around a pogo stick", would anyone care in the slightest? Would those women be told to leave their jobs?

    If they said "we sandwiched him like a slice of roast ham", would we be calling them disgusting misandrist's?

    Did he leave bleeding, go to a doctor for his injuries, then go to a rape crisis centre, having his genetal exam video taped. Get interviewed by 2 doctors, 3 counsellors, and about 5 cops about what happened that night. Tell his friends he had been raped, tell some of their friends they had raped him. Watch those two women continue their careers as the heroes of their district, going from strength to strength. Take it to court, get quized about it for 8 straight days, by 4 different QCs. Have the expert who examined him critcised for not doing their jobs properly even though that's not his fault. Have everyone involved in the whole thing tell 5 different versions of the story, but for some reason their lies don't matter and your lies do. And at the end of it all get nothing, but thousands of people think you're a liar?

    Because maybe in that case I'd find your argument compelling.


  • #2840
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I just read this elsewhere but it's an interesting point.

    If Jackson had a threesome with two women and the next day those ladies texted each other saying "it was like passing around a pogo stick", would anyone care in the slightest? Would those women be told to leave their jobs?

    If they said "we sandwiched him like a slice of roast ham", would we be calling them disgusting misandrist's?

    Imagine if we got six people in a room and got them to all start coming up with hypotheticals, do you think eventually they might actually find one which makes a relevant point? :pac:


  • #2841
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    You keep trying to create false equivalences to this. An equivalent situation would be what happened Teddy THomas and his mates. They got dropped by France and Thomas himself was fined by his club. No idea if the other French players were treated similarly by their clubs, but none of them were charged with anything.

    And Bastareaud was banned for using a homophobic slur and came back to Captain France.

    Either way, I'm not trying to create any equivalence, I'm simply asking if the genders were reversed would the outrage be the same. The meaning and intent behind the two statements I wrote above strongly mirror statements made by the players, would you think you would get 130 donations to take out an add in the Belfast Telegraph if two female / Irish international players were outed making those remarks?


  • Advertisement
  • #2842
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    I'll tell you what though. I want to see some really good performances from Piutau in the next four weeks, or else I'll be branding him a complete waste of money.

    And I know that's not going to go down well with some of the Ulster lads. So here's hoping.


  • #2843
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Did he leave bleeding, go to a doctor for his injuries, then go to a rape crisis centre, having his genetal exam video taped. Get interviewed by 2 doctors, 3 counsellors, and about 5 cops about what happened that night. Tell his friends he had been raped, tell some of their friends they had raped him. Watch those two women continue their careers as the heroes of their district, going from strength to strength. Take it to court, get quized about it for 8 straight days, by 4 different QCs. Have the expert who examined him critcised for not doing their jobs properly even though that's not his fault. Have everyone involved in the whole thing tell 5 different versions of the story, but for some reason their lies don't matter and your lies do. And at the end of it all get nothing, but thousands of people think you're a liar?

    Because maybe in that case I'd find your argument compelling.

    So I asked a simple question. We are talking about the comments here because that is what the players are on the hook for with Ulster / The IRFU.

    Whatever your feelings are about the trial is irrelevant because they won't be sacked for that, they were found not guilty. They can be sacked potentially for the messages (though that they were communicated with intended privacy will make that tough regardless).

    So I'm asking, would people feel the same way if it was women commenting about a threesome with a man.


  • #2844
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Imagine if we got six people in a room and got them to all start coming up with hypotheticals, do you think eventually they might actually find one which makes a relevant point? :pac:

    It's a simple question, reverse the genders - does anyone care about the messages?


  • #2845
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    I'll tell you what though. I want to see some really good performances from Piutau in the next four weeks, or else I'll be branding him a complete waste of money.

    And I know that's not going to go down well with some of the Ulster lads. So here's hoping.

    I'm there with you, he's not worth the money at all.

    I think he's the sort of finishing piece that you add to a winning team, think he might be completely out of his element on this team. Can't see him putting in the performances you'd expect.


  • #2846
    Brewster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    It’s a step in the right direction, I remain convinced he will play for Ulster next season, anything else would be very wrong. It’s never too late to apologise, never. You have to realise the lad is surrounded by advisors and solicitors, his head is a mess right now. It’s very easy for hurlers on the ditch to pass scrutiny. Do people honestly believe he is not sorry for what happened that night and next morning? I find that thought process difficult to understand. He made a huge mistake, speaking disrespectfully the way he did. I don’t buy the theory that he is some sort of monster for being part of, and sending one, wholly inappropriate texts. He shouldn’t lose his career over it. While everybody has sympathy for the girl, and the situation she found herself in, nothing can change the events of the night. Everyone now needs to get on with their lives, as best they can, this includes Paddy and Stuart. It just happens they are professional rugby players, however they are human beings first and foremost. I just hope the IRFU share this sentiment.


  • #2847
    errlloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Brewster wrote: »
    Do people honestly believe he is not sorry for what happened that night and next morning?

    I believe he is full of self pity. That he really regrets being there. And that he really regrets the damage he did himself.

    I don't believe for one second he feels any empathy for the girl.


  • #2848
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So I asked a simple question. We are talking about the comments here because that is what the players are on the hook for with Ulster / The IRFU.

    It may be the only thing you are comfortable discussing, but the message Paddy Jackson sent is absolutely 100% not even remotely the only thing they are on the hook for. Surely you know this.


  • #2849
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It may be the only thing you are comfortable discussing, but the message Paddy Jackson sent is absolutely 100% not even remotely the only thing they are on the hook for. Surely you know this.

    Legally. This is a legal issue from Jackson's perspective. It's a legal and PR issue for Ulster and the IRFU.

    Yes, Jackson and Olding are accused of a great deal more, but the law will be 100% completely blind to all of that.

    The IRFU and Ulster rugby can only take action at the two players through the prism of those messages, everything else was privately conducted in their own home and doesn't overlap with anything that would be in their contract.

    And I'm comfortable discussing any aspect of the trial, I'm merely pointing out that in terms of future player availability, the court of public opinion does not extend to the clauses on Paddy Jackson's contract, nor to what ever Employee tribunal he might find himself in.


  • #2850
    Brewster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I believe he is full of self pity. That he really regrets being there. And that he really regrets the damage he did himself.

    I don't believe for one second he feels any empathy for the girl.

    ErrLloyd, i think in the cold light of day, all 5 people ended up in a situation they regretted. Paddy has a sister and mother, what do you think the conversations have been like with them? I have no doubt he has empathy for the girl.


  • Advertisement
  • #2851
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Legally. This is a legal issue from Jackson's perspective. It's a legal and PR issue for Ulster and the IRFU.

    Yes, Jackson and Olding are accused of a great deal more, but the law will be 100% completely blind to all of that.

    The IRFU and Ulster rugby can only take action at the two players through the prism of those messages, everything else was privately conducted in their own home and doesn't overlap with anything that would be in their contract.

    Wishful thinking


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement