Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

RuMan

bilston wrote: »

You'd think there would have to be a bad atmosphere about the squad.

1) No idea what the future holds regarding the coach.

2) Poor results and likelihood of no Champions Cup rugby next season.

3) The Jackson/Olding/Gilroy situation

4) Total absence of leadership off the pitch

5) Glut of injuries.

It's an absolute clusterf**k. Compared to Leinster and Munster we are a total embarrassment. I'm actually a little ashamed to be an Ulster fan at the minute. I genuinely look forward to watching Leinster and Munster a hell of a lot more than Ulster at the minute.

And I'm the positive Ulster fan around here...

Its a disaster.
Only seems like recently the backline was more exciting then Leinsters with all the young lads coming through.

awec

bilston wrote: »

You'd think there would have to be a bad atmosphere about the squad.

1) No idea what the future holds regarding the coach.

2) Poor results and likelihood of no Champions Cup rugby next season.

3) The Jackson/Olding/Gilroy situation

4) Total absence of leadership off the pitch

5) Glut of injuries.

It's an absolute clusterf**k. Compared to Leinster and Munster we are a total embarrassment. I'm actually a little ashamed to be an Ulster fan at the minute. I genuinely look forward to watching Leinster and Munster a hell of a lot more than Ulster at the minute.

And I'm the positive Ulster fan around here...

Lets be honest bilston, being an Ulster fan is absolutely fcuking ****e.

We're a joke.

And I'm almost as positive as you.

Dubinusa

I hope the next coach is a really strong willed one, not afraid of bruising egos and being a leader. Just a shame that Cockerill isn't available. He's done a job with Edinburgh and is cleaning house. That's probably what's needed. It's going to be a tough sell to attract that kind of person and quality players with the situation as it is now.
But, it cannot get any worse and the next season or 2 will see a big rebound, hopefully.

Digifriendly

Glad to see conversation now focusing on Ulster rugby team. I simply can't see them beating Edinburgh on Friday night. That will end any realistic hope of making latter stages of Pro 14 and automatic qualification for CC. Even qualification via a playoff is under severe threat with Benetton on their coattails. We might edge out Ospreys but remember they could still get into CC and will not lie down. If Glasgow put out a decent side we will struggle to beat them and by the last match in Thomond it could all be academic.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic but I'm afraid what I have predicted is a dose of reality. Do others agree?

Utah_Saint

I honestly don't mind if we finish the season without a win...well, I'm probably just indifferent to it all. All I want is to see signs that things are slowly being rebuilt. The only thing that could tip me over the edge would be Logan's bake in a PR video telling us he has it all under control.

bilston

Digifriendly wrote: »

Glad to see conversation now focusing on Ulster rugby team. I simply can't see them beating Edinburgh on Friday night. That will end any realistic hope of making latter stages of Pro 14 and automatic qualification for CC. Even qualification via a playoff is under severe threat with Benetton on their coattails. We might edge out Ospreys but remember they could still get into CC and will not lie down. If Glasgow put out a decent side we will struggle to beat them and by the last match in Thomond it could all be academic.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic but I'm afraid what I have predicted is a dose of reality. Do others agree?

I don't see any more wins this season at all.

We've no pack, a very very inexperienced out half and absolutely no creativity whatsoever in the midfield. Having two of the most deadly back three players on the planet means feck all. I don't see how we can beat any of the teams we have left to play.

The season can't end soon enough. Maybe next season will bring something brighter. We've got some good youngsters, we've made one or two decent signings (a very good signing in Jordi Murphy) and hopefully we can get Coetzee back. I'd love to see Payne back too, but can't see it. Sort out 10 and get a good coaching together and maybe we can tread water for a season.

Realistically it will be the 2019/20 season before I see us being properly competitive again. The WC shouldn't affect us too much and maybe we'll get a head start while everyone has their best players in Japan for the forest two or three months of the season!

MJohnston

I hope we have a good few games left this season after having been properly ruled out for CC qualification (because I have no doubt that will happen, it's just a matter of when), and then there will be some time to just give some of those younger players some run outs. In terms of the forwards, I seriously don't know how any of them could be worse than most of the existing players. We're relying on a couple of imports (who may already be regretting their moves) and some crocked perma-injured players, and then beyond that is basically zero depth.

Of course, Gibbes might just not give a **** at this stage, I wouldn't blame him, but he's been an utter failure.

stl.ire

MJohnston wrote: »

I hope we have a good few games left this season after having been properly ruled out for CC qualification (because I have no doubt that will happen, it's just a matter of when), and then there will be some time to just give some of those younger players some run outs. In terms of the forwards, I seriously don't know how any of them could be worse than most of the existing players. We're relying on a couple of imports (who may already be regretting their moves) and some crocked perma-injured players, and then beyond that is basically zero depth.

Of course, Gibbes might just not give a **** at this stage, I wouldn't blame him, but he's been an utter failure.

Ulster are a long way off winning trophies but with a few additions and the right coaching set up next year could absolutely be a solid if unspectacular season.

As for Gibbes he is checked out. He’s doing us a favor in staying until the season end but rumors are he wanted out pretty soon after he started.

Let's imagine Ulster could rip up contracts in the morning.

What's your squad (only from players currently contracted to Ulster) for next season? (as in, cut who you wish)

Where does that leave gaps needing filling?

sydthebeat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let's imagine Ulster could rip up contracts in the morning.

What's your squad (only from players currently contracted to Ulster) for next season? (as in, cut who you wish)

Where does that leave gaps needing filling?

Emmets taking over and looking for some starting out pointers

Former Former

MJohnston wrote: »

I hope we have a good few games left this season after having been properly ruled out for CC qualification (because I have no doubt that will happen, it's just a matter of when), and then there will be some time to just give some of those younger players some run outs.

I think it's going to go right to the wire unfortunately. Looking at the fixtures Benetton have, Zebre and Dragons at home, you'd expect two wins from three for them. Ulster have a game in hand but have to go to Edinburgh and Munster and host Glasgow and Ospreys; that's a tough run-in now that Ospreys look to have improved again.

So I think Ulster will be in the balance right up to the end. Might be no harm to give some young guys a run anyway

prawnsambo

stl.ire wrote: »

As for Gibbes he is checked out. He’s doing us a favor in staying until the season end but rumors are he wanted out pretty soon after he started.

That's a bit worrying. Any coach with ambition would feel they could change things. A guy like Gibbes throwing in the towel that early doesn't bode well. And any prospective coach would want to talk to him about it before committing.

MJohnston

To be fair it sounds less like Gibbes has checked out as such, more like he's just angry from dealing with players who have checked out.

Utah_Saint

prawnsambo wrote: »

stl.ire wrote: »

As for Gibbes he is checked out. He’s doing us a favor in staying until the season end but rumors are he wanted out pretty soon after he started.

That's a bit worrying. Any coach with ambition would feel they could change things. A guy like Gibbes throwing in the towel that early doesn't bode well. And any prospective coach would want to talk to him about it before committing.

I still think it is a semi desirable job. Somebody is bound to thinking..."what a sh1t show, if I can fix Ulster I could win a world cup in the future" I'm surprised Jake white hasn't piped up yet.

damianmcr

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/paddy-jackson-rape-charge-facing-14493510.amp

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's imagine Ulster could rip up contracts in the morning.

What's your squad (only from players currently contracted to Ulster) for next season? (as in, cut who you wish)

Where does that leave gaps needing filling?

Squad for next season as it stands

Props
Kyle McCall
Andrew Warwick
Schalk Van Der Merwe
Tommy O'Hagan
Wiebhan Herbst
Marty Moore
Ross Kane
Rodney Ah You*
Tom O'Toole

Hookers
Rory Best
Rob Herring
John Andrew
Adam McBurney

Second Row
Iain Henderson
Alan O'Connor
Kieran Treadwell
Matt Dalton
Peter Browne*

Back Row
Jordi Murphy
Marcel Coetzee
Jean Deysel
Sean Reidy
Robbie Diack*
Matthew Rea
Chris Henry
Nick Timoney
Greg Jones
Aaron Hall*
Matthew Agnew
Joe Dunleavy

Scrum Half
John Cooney
Jonny Stewart
Dave Shannahan*
Paul Marshall*

Out Half
Paddy Jackson*
Johnny McPhillips*
Peter Nelson
Michael Lowry

Centres
Stuart McCloskey
Luke Marshall
Will Addison
Stuart Olding*
Darren Cave*
Angus Curtis
James Hume

Back Three
Jacob Stockdale
Craig Gilroy
Rob Lyttle
Jared Payne*
Andrew Trimble
Louis Ludik

*players with some uncertainty over their contract situation

To answer your question most of the players I'd cut are the ones with the asterisk beside their names.

The players in bold are the ones I'd cut. Maybe a bit harsh of Greg Jones.

Clearly we need the out half situation resolved. We may even need a couple of out halves, although Angus Curtis can play there and we have Michael Lowry coming through as well.

Other than that a LHP seems an essential signing. Preferably a first choice player. We have one NIQ position available and this is where I'd be using it, the problem with that is we have a NIQ LH already and he hasn't been up to scratch so far.

Edit - Italics are U20 players who may get a shot

thomond2006

bilston wrote: »

We have Michael Lowry coming through as well.

You can probably pay him in cash. Brown envelopes are preferable.

launish116

Re. Bilston post on squad

The squad ain’t great but the academy does seem to have potential! Just fear it’s a season to early to be jumping in to help the seniors! With the right integration and prep the academy could start bearing fruit! Look at Dalton! What we don’t want is another season with academy players parachuted in during injury crisis! We need to start blooding these players especially props and backrow when we can safely!

The bolded players I agree with especially The Niq’s like Deysel and Shcalk have been a big let down. I’m all for cutting dead wood but only if it can be replaced! I’d rather have dead wood with experience than an academy player thrown to the wolves.

The likes of Browne, Ross, Diack, Cave if there not first team anymore hold them and get them to work in the ravens and pass their knowledge on. If there to good for that cut them. That backbone of brown and Ross seems to of helped the academy and A’s and that can’t be snubbed at.

Personally the idea of the challenge cup is more welcoming next year than a hammering in champions cup. Think ulster need to look at sustainabiilty for incoming seasons before any glory. Time the fans sadly grasp that reality also.

Holding my breath on anymore signings/cuts! Need a seasoned prop and 2nr row.

irishfan9

Tom O'Toole to start.

MJohnston

We should be cutting Coetzee too - he's crocked and will only be here for one season at best, he's completely useless to our future. Not to mention he's taking up a valuable NIQ spot

thomond2006

MJohnston wrote: »

We should be cutting Coetzee too - he's crocked and will only be here for one season at best, he's completely useless to our future. Not to mention he's taking up a valuable NIQ spot

If (big if I know) he can come back then you would be mad to cut a player of his quality. The upside to him is immense and I don't think you would be able to sign a similar level of player. I can't imagine agents will go out of their way to sell Ulster to their clients.

Synode

damianmcr wrote: »

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/paddy-jackson-rape-charge-facing-14493510.amp

Total incompetence from the CPS if they brought it to trial against the recommendation of the PSNI.

The PSNI could also be drawn into the query and it is believed a request may be made for police case notes and all early thoughts and recommendations about the matter. A source said: “Rape is one of the most serious criminal complaints police handle and they took the claims very seriously from the get-go.

“They interviewed the complainant. They interviewed the four men several times. They interviewed witnesses.

“They examined a lot of details on all sides and in the end they recommended no charge. There was a feeling they didn’t have what’s needed for a rape case to stand up. The case went to trial. The result was unanimous. The men were found not guilty.”

MJohnston

Lads I'm pretty sure the mods banned all chat about the trial that isn't directly related to the team (ie. availability)

awec

If we’re talking complete dreamworld where players can be replaced I’d also cut Herbst, Coetzee and Clive Ross.

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Lads I'm pretty sure the mods banned all chat about the trial that isn't directly related to the team (ie. availability)

From the article Synode posted it appears Jackson is determined to continue playing with Ulster so somewhat related to player availability:

A source told Belfast Live: “Without doubt Paddy Jackson is more determined than ever to get his green jersey back on. He is fit and ready. There’ll be no backing down. He was acquitted unanimously.

“The people who are calling for him and Stuart to be barred or sacked from their profession are not in possession of all the facts and by jumping on the bandwagon they’re just making matters worse.

“We have to give the IRFU a chance in anticipation it’ll make the right decision. If not Paddy will go straight to the Sporting Board of Arbitration Appeal Court.”

MJohnston

thomond2006 wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

We should be cutting Coetzee too - he's crocked and will only be here for one season at best, he's completely useless to our future. Not to mention he's taking up a valuable NIQ spot

If (big if I know) he can come back then you would be mad to cut a player of his quality. The upside to him is immense and I don't think you would be able to sign a similar level of player. I can't imagine agents will go out of their way to sell Ulster to their clients.

He's played 4 games in two whole seasons. He won't even be back from injury until July, last I heard. Then he's only got until the end of next season left on his contract, and it's pretty clear he wants to go back to South Africa already. I just don't know what use he is to us for a season, when we're unlikely to be doing anything other than major rebuilding next year.

MJohnston

Deleted User wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

Lads I'm pretty sure the mods banned all chat about the trial that isn't directly related to the team (ie. availability)

From the article Synode posted it appears Jackson is determined to continue playing with Ulster so somewhat related to player availability:

A source told Belfast Live: “Without doubt Paddy Jackson is more determined than ever to get his green jersey back on. He is fit and ready. There’ll be no backing down. He was acquitted unanimously.

“The people who are calling for him and Stuart to be barred or sacked from their profession are not in possession of all the facts and by jumping on the bandwagon they’re just making matters worse.

“We have to give the IRFU a chance in anticipation it’ll make the right decision. If not Paddy will go straight to the Sporting Board of Arbitration Appeal Court.”

Synode did not post that link.

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Synode did not post that link.

Apologies for the glaring error on my part.

The link he re-posted.

launish116

MJohnston wrote: »

We should be cutting Coetzee too - he's crocked and will only be here for one season at best, he's completely useless to our future. Not to mention he's taking up a valuable NIQ spot

Took Olding two seasons before his knee was completely right? If i’m Correct. It a shame but Coetzee gueninely is a world class player! I’d wait and give him the chance! Year before World Cup who realistically would we get?

Clive Ross should be kept purely to help the A’s if anything.

O’toole will push on, his scrummaging was in question I think! But what i’ve seen so far he’s been good! He’s a big mobile prop!

Former Former

Deleted User wrote: »

From the article Synode posted it appears Jackson is determined to continue playing with Ulster so somewhat related to player availability:

I don't know how reputable 'Belfast Live' is, and "sources" are always very dodgy, but the prospect of an Ireland player taking the IRFU to the Court of Arbitration...